Are Noodler's Bp Inks Safe In Waterman Carene ?

[Legal Eagle]

I just bought a new Waterman Carene today and was wondering what the general consensus is on using these bulletproof inks and other Noodler's inks that creep in pens with inlaid nibs.

In the past I've used bulletproof inks in other pens, and actually had some issues like nib creep, and a sticky 149 piston after using bp black.

I guess I'm invisioning the ink creeping up the section and what not.

 

[Sandy1]

Hi,

Congratulations on your new Carene!!!

 

I reckon the Noodler's bulletproof inks are just fine.

I do share your concern about the dreaded inky creepers. I've tried to hold that nightmarish tide at bay by festooning the writing table with wreathes of garlic, but to no avail. Alas, Member Ghost Plane, another strong supporter of the Carene, has indicated that bagpipe music is equally ineffective @ Post № 37 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/255965-noodlers-54-massachusetts/?p=2832030

In addition to a magnificent inset nib, the Carene has a massive feed+collector assembly, which is a bit possessive, so one should bring their 'A' game when time comes to clean-up.

When flushing my Carenes and many other c/c pens with inlaid/inset/tubular nibs, I slip a length of soft [surgical] tubing over the nib to form a seal on the section, then back-flush by adding water to the open end of the tubing. That can be quite time consuming, and as my Tedium Tolerance is not so high, I'll often rig a siphon to provide a steady trickle of water through the pen - what I've taken to calling a 'rolling soak'. During that time, usually when topping-up the siphon tank, I'll use an aspirator bulb to give a hefty flush from the c/c nipple end, and flick/shake the excess inky water from the section, then carry on with the siphon.

My experience with Noodler's inks has shown that clean-up runs the gamut from a simple plain water flush-soak-flush to use of a technical pen cleaner. e.g. Koh-i-Noor Rapido-Eze. To determine what's necessary, I use an escalating approach: start with plain water for a 'reasonable' time, then flick the section quite dry, then use an FP pen cleaning solution to see what if any residue is released, then repeat that with a technical pen cleaner, then an ultrasonic cleaner. I'm not a big fan of extended soaking for routine clean-up, so I add either mechanical or chemical energy to tease the ink from the pen.

 

Kindly consider running some clean-up trials with a Washable ink, such as Lamy Blue, to establish a minimum clean-up. And filling the pen with a Yellow ink after clean-up will give an indication (Green ink) if the clean-up was not so good, especially if left in the pen for a few days. (I use Noodler's Firefly.)

Also, should the clean-up overhead seem rather high, kindly consider diluting the ink a bit with [distilled] water and/or adding an iota of surfactant. Depending on the pen+paper combo, most Noodler's inks can be run at 80% concentration without significantly altering their appearance.

There are many personal nuances to cleaning one's pens, so its up to you to develop your own method/s.

 

Let us know how things go...

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

Borrowed photo of Carene feed+collector:

Edited August 21, 2014 by Sandy1

[T4TEXAS]

Thanks. This is helpful to me, too. I have an older Carene that has corrosive damage to the gold "wings" behind the nib due to me not having a clue about proper cleaning when using IG inks. The pen still writes wonderfully well, but looks tacky. The regret, however, will not keep me from using it.

[Komitadjie]

Sandy, have you ever tried combining flushing and ultrasonic? I've been working with that on my Parker 51, and it works tremendously well for me. I start with a quick flush like normal, to get the bulk of the ink out, but once it's down to just coloured water instead of dilute ink, I call that phase done. Then I just put a glass of whatever I want to use for my washing solution (for me, normally a 10% ammonia mix) into my ultrasonic tank so that the top of the glass is above the top of the solution in the tank,then dip the pen in the cup just like I'm filling it and slowly cycle water through. Typically, it will just GUSH inky water briefly, perhaps for the first five or six cycles of the filler, then drop off to nothing at all coming out. After that, a shake-down into a white cloth reveals nothing left in it at all that I can detect.

 

Filling the feed and collector while the section is submerged permits the ultrasonic to work on the inside surfaces, and cycling the water flushes the knocked-off ink out again. I typically use that only for either really nasty cases, or when I want to clean the 51, which is its own nasty case to clean thanks to that monster collector!

[mhosea]

Ultrasonic cleaning is very effective. One might be a little reticent to use much ultrasonic cleaning with inlaid nibs, though. Richard Binder reports that they can loosen the adhesive on Sheaffer Targas and the like. Might be true of the Carene also.

[Sandy1]

Thanks. This is helpful to me, too. I have an older Carene that has corrosive damage to the gold "wings" behind the nib due to me not having a clue about proper cleaning when using IG inks. The pen still writes wonderfully well, but looks tacky. The regret, however, will not keep me from using it.

 

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

Ah, as the Carene has an 18K gold alloy nib, it seems rather unlikely that the acid in iron-gall FP ink would corrode the nib. (?)

 

Should you check those bits under magnification, if they're 'gritty bits' rather than pitting, kindly consider use of plain household white vinegar diluted to give a 0.5% acetic acid content on a swab, then add some elbow grease to buff them away. That solution can also be used to loosen any residue from I-G inks within your Carene, and is best used prior to any ammonia-based clean-up aid.

(See also Post № 9 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/229245-limit-to-soaking/?p=2456205 and № 271+ https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/205705-ecclesiastical-stationery-supplies-registrars-ink/?p=2304216 )

 

Bye,

S1

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sandy1

[Sandy1]

Sandy, have you ever tried combining flushing and ultrasonic? I've been working with that on my Parker 51, and it works tremendously well for me. I start with a quick flush like normal, to get the bulk of the ink out, but once it's down to just coloured water instead of dilute ink, I call that phase done. Then I just put a glass of whatever I want to use for my washing solution (for me, normally a 10% ammonia mix) into my ultrasonic tank so that the top of the glass is above the top of the solution in the tank,then dip the pen in the cup just like I'm filling it and slowly cycle water through. Typically, it will just GUSH inky water briefly, perhaps for the first five or six cycles of the filler, then drop off to nothing at all coming out. After that, a shake-down into a white cloth reveals nothing left in it at all that I can detect.

 

Filling the feed and collector while the section is submerged permits the ultrasonic to work on the inside surfaces, and cycling the water flushes the knocked-off ink out again. I typically use that only for either really nasty cases, or when I want to clean the 51, which is its own nasty case to clean thanks to that monster collector!

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks for sharing yet another nuance of pen clean-up.

 

As I've been quite happy with the clean-up I've achieved with water & other liquids, I don't use the ultrasonic so very often. That Rapido-Eze is highly effective, and well worth using.

 

Also, it seems that as I usually don't leave a pen other than my daily writer/s charged with ink for more than a few days, the boost an ultrasonic delivers is rarely needed. On the other hand, it certainly does come in handy when I've used a persistent ink with a high dye-load in pens with fancy plumbing, single-end ink systems and/or large feed+collectors; and for pens found in the wild.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sandy1

[Sandy1]

Ultrasonic cleaning is very effective. One might be a little reticent to use much ultrasonic cleaning with inlaid nibs, though. Richard Binder reports that they can loosen the adhesive on Sheaffer Targas and the like. Might be true of the Carene also.

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks for the heads-up!

 

I would be ultra irked to damage a pen because of the clean-up method. As mentioned, I prefer to determine the manner of clean-up by escalating steps: do just what's necessary.

A similar approach is used when mixing my DIY pen cleaning solution: start with low 0.5% ammonia concentration, then step-up to no more than 1.0%. I'd rather use a longer exposure time + more flushing with a weak solution, rather than save a few minutes by using a stronger solution.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sandy1

[mhosea]

As mentioned, I prefer to determine the manner of clean-up by escalating steps: do just what's necessary.

 

This is a careful and pragmatic policy. There is some complexity to the matter, though, and depending on how obsessed one is with cleanliness of the pen (I am fairly extreme but pragmatic enough not to require counseling ), determining when is when can be difficult. Also, different pens may call for different minimalist efforts. Receiving my first Sailor 1911 demonstrator recently has taught me, some years after receiving my first Sailor 1911, that the bulb syringe with plain water is likely to force water underneath the grip, and I don't know for certain but suspect that any fluid in the ultrasonic is likely to seep in there. Once it is there, it doesn't want to come out. I never knew this could be happening. Out-of-site-out-of-mind is one thing, but the connector between the section and barrel is plated metal. Hopefully it is corrosion resistant. In future I think I will still use the bulb syringe, but I will make a connector out of a spent cartridge to keep the water flowing exclusively through the inside of the cartridge that holds the nib and feed.

[T4TEXAS]

 

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

Ah, as the Carene has an 18K gold alloy nib, it seems rather unlikely that the acid in iron-gall FP ink would corrode the nib. (?)

 

Should you check those bits under magnification, if they're 'gritty bits' rather than pitting, kindly consider use of plain household white vinegar diluted to give a 0.5% acetic acid content on a swab, then add some elbow grease to buff them away. That solution can also be used to loosen any residue from I-G inks within your Carene, and is best used prior to any ammonia-based clean-up aid.

(See also Post № 9 https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/229245-limit-to-soaking/?p=2456205 and № 271+ https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/205705-ecclesiastical-stationery-supplies-registrars-ink/?p=2304216 )

 

Bye,

S1

Thanks, Sandy. The nib itself is in excellent condition. The problem is with the decorative gold-colored pieces on the nib section, not connected directly to the nib, but rather flaring back from it,. Part of it is broken off/corroded off, and missing. Perhaps the adhesive loosened, as Mike suggested can happen with too much ultra-sonic treatment, and then damaged. At any rate, it is damaged, but I am not feeling any urgency to have someone repair it, if it can be repaired.

[Komitadjie]

Ultrasonic cleaning is very effective. One might be a little reticent to use much ultrasonic cleaning with inlaid nibs, though. Richard Binder reports that they can loosen the adhesive on Sheaffer Targas and the like. Might be true of the Carene also.

 

I've heard that one as well, I generally go very lightly with it if I use it on inlaid nibs. I figure that probably the thirty seconds or so I'm flushing the pen won't do much, but I certainly wouldn't want to leave it in there on a classic pen and give 'er a couple half-hour cycles!

[HandLikeAFist]

No.