Identification Difficulties.

[Cryptos]

Hi folks,

 

Anyone like to have a go at identifying what model this Moore pen is? The nib is marked 'The Moore Pen'.

 

 

 

Cheers

[Cryptos]

Gosh, 50 views and not a single opinion? Does nobody know anything about Moore pens?

[KBeezie]

Market watch isn't the place for it, probably why no one answered. Maybe try first stop or miscellaneous brands?

[Cryptos]

Dammit! Just re-posted this in First Stop and then find it's been moved here. It's like magic I tells ya!

[MrThoth]

There seem to be a decent number of "help identify this pen" threads -- maybe suggest the creation of a new sub-forum?

[whych]

Do a search on Moore pen on the forum. Quite a few results come up.

[Cryptos]

I had a good rummage around using the search function and found nothing that looks like the OP picture.

 

Thing is that I've been seeing Carters and Townsends popping up on Ebay, as well as this 'Moore' in this thread, but it's tough finding detailed information about any of them. That's why I'm asking here.

 

Not getting any joy as yet though

[shawndp]

A quick read up on RossPens suggests the cap design is from the late 40's with a 46 to 56 production suggested. Site also suggests that some nibs marked "the Moore Pen" have a degree of flex and are the desirable sort. Richard Binder's site has a Moore pen identified as a 94-A that looks very similar to what you have...

[robert1962]

I really like your pen. Should, indeed be a nice writer. They made a few sizes. What is length and cap i.d.?

 

I have couple of versions of this general type. No catalog to reference, but my gut is late 30s. This celluloid pattern is generically called "Candy Stripe". Several makers used similar celluloid in late 30s - early 40s. Wahl Oxford comes to mind, for one.

 

Look at the lever. This shape lever was used by Moore in the 20s and 30s. The 94a mentioned, and its siblings, all use a rectangular lever as does the post-war Finger tip.

 

The nibs on mine show graphics that seem quite similar to several early 30s Moore pens I have. Here again, the 94a is quite different, sporting a "Moore Life" nib, with a bold geometric design.

 

As to the 40s cap design, about the only similarity I see is that the same clip was used on the friction fit Metal-capped Finger Tips.

 

The overall look; triple cap bands and metal Tassie rings with black "jewels", seems inspired by the early 1930s Vacumatic.

 

No hard evidence here, but I would place this design as earlier than that top-mounted clip 94a. The right Moore catalogs could settle it.

 

Other thoughts?

 

Bob

[Bo Bo Olson]

Its called fishbone in German pens & I'd thought in English pens too. Candy stripe is a new term to me....so one never stops learning on FPN.

 

Celluloid spiral stripe was common in the '30's. When the P-51 came in with pressed extruded plastic in 1940 every one jumped on the cheap band wagon, as soon as the war was over.

It could be after the war....but most were into making cheap plastic pens by 1950 including MB & Sheaffer.

Thankfully Esterbrook didn't jump until 1960....sigh as a kid of course I had the cheap plastic Esterbrook, instead of the pretty one.

 

IMO the cap design is pre-WW2. It was decided by REMF's that no fountain pen could poke out of the pocket of a GI's uniform, so all the pen companies raised the height of the clip....so GI's could buy their pens.

One did not want a red faced officer screaming at you, because you had a paid for good working non-"soldierly" pen poking out where a German or Japanese sniper could see the 'rumpled' pocket.

Hummmmm.....I wonder who had stock in Parker.....I would not put it past General Marshall. ...there is nothing I'd not put past him.

Oddly, before the war under MacArthur that was not an issue.

 

What Marshall did about the Philippines, while MacArthur was on the boat to Australia is despicable. There was a fully equipped well stocked Division of American troops on the Island of Minanao with the remains of the Philippine Army, that MacArthur was counting on to delay the enemy*. Marshall forced Stillwell to surrender them too. Knowing how the Japanese treated POW's.

Marshall hated MacArthur because in the '30 as top General, MacArthur said Marshall was not fit to command a regiment. Marshall was a major league back stabber.

 

*There would have been no Japanese on Guadalcanal, had they did their duty and gave long hard battle, as planned. A three month delay is a hell of a long time in a war.

I knew (by sight of course, he was Flight Line God...and I a 'noobie' autopilot repairman) a man who was on the Bataan Death March. The most powerful enlisted man in the AF.

I thought him a bit odd, sleeves rolled up, cap flipped up, shirt open to the chest; with his own flight line jeep...like you see in old WW2 movies. He had his rice basket in Otis AF base, had settled in and was quite happy there....had been there well over 15 years which is shocking long time to be stationed somewhere at any time or place in the Military.

 

The new Squadron Col. did not like that man, and ordered him transferred. The Chief Master Sargent went on leave ASAP for 30 days. He went and talked to they young officers now Generals or retired Generals, he shared a bowl of rice with during and after the Bataan Death March.

He came back after his leave and the Col. was gone.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[robert1962]

I must admit that I use "candy stripe" because I have seen others use that name to identify Moore pens with this pattern (Vacumaniac, for one). I don't know what Moore called it. Can't say that I've ever seen a piece of candy that looks like it - must be some of that spendy stuff. My confectionery of choice is 7-11.

 

I agree with Bo Bo that military pocket flap regs led to most makers offering a top-mounted clip during WW2. Skyline, Commando, Vigilant...... Before the war there weren't so many military pockets - not much market to pursue. Parker was already there, using the washer clip since 1916. Marshall? Didn't Der Fuhrer buy up all the Parker stock in '39? For a while he had a "controlling" interest in Penol. Marshall(Plan) probably rebuilt Pelikan.

 

Being a Seattleite, I'd like to think Marshall had a few shares of Boeing, and a little Moore.

 

So, Cryptos - I hope I haven't answered all of your questions.

 

its the pursuit of pen knowledge and the journey it takes you on, not the instant gratification of having it handed to you IMO. I have pens which I have sought info on for 20+ years! A little mystery and controversy keeps things interesting. How did they build those darned Pyramids?

 

Cheers, Bob

[Bo Bo Olson]

Pelikan, rebuilt it's self, with help of the ancient golden Mayor's necklace of Hanover, right after the war. So they could offer gold nibs....the way the world works some were bribes to the British....in that was their sector.

But that was the fable of why Pelikan could offer gold nibs and no one else could. MB was still using steel for quite a while.

Hitler stole the gold nibs in summer of '38.

 

Tropen, a big German export pen, weeks after the war was over got from the local British supply officer; an order of 50,000 pens for Brittan. The English pen factories were bombed into ruin, and the Labor government did not allocate any resources for rich folks toys.

Tropen got a number of big orders....was the 'biggest' German pen producer 1945-48, with 150,000 for students and export, to the middle east, and S.A, it's previous markets. A Tropen is hard to find in Germany.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[robert1962]

Bo Bo,

 

I was only kidding about Pelikan. I picked that German maker quite randomly to make a joke about your bringing George Marshall and the fall of the Phillipines into a conversation about fountain pens.

 

I apologize, and will return to thread subject.

 

Cryptos - if your still with us - search "Moore Candy Stripe fountain pen". Among the results is an archive of sold pens which shows a nice example. That dealer also places pen as late 30's.

 

As to Carters and Townsend.

 

I have seen some Townsends. They tended to be lower quality pens; certainly third tier, with low quality nibs.

 

Carters pens are something else. Searching Carters Pearltex/Superware/inx should get you started. They made some wonderful pens, but only for a few years.

 

Bob

[Bo Bo Olson]

I do toss odd stuff out at odd times.

It's easy to do.

It only took 40-50 years for the truth about the Philippines to come out. Stillwell and MacArthur never struck me as so stupid....now I know they were not.

Some one had to ok the REMF pen rule....Marshall struck me as such.

 

Before the War of course Sgt's carried pencils, soldiers not at all....then they let all those civilians in the brown shoe army, who could write their Congressmen.

 

It wasn't until after the War, that Kwie shoe polish came in....American GI's would trade a bottle of good booze for a can. The Japanese girls loved a high gloss shoe shine....and the stuff the American GI could buy in the PX did not do the job.

Tid bits of nickle knowledge. Being worthless are never forgotten.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Hooker56]

Cryptos,

 

I have a Valentine in the same candy stripe striated pattern that dates to about 1938-40. Very similar in looks. The early English Parker Victory also used that same celluloid pattern in some pens. Sheaffer Wasps and many others also. I think the material was used before, during WWII years, and just after.

[Cryptos]

Cool. I get the candy stripe pattern but I cannot find the model of the pen itself. It's clearly not a 94A. It will be interesting to see what Mr Fudge has to say about it when I get around to posting it in.

[Bo Bo Olson]

There seem to be a decent number of "help identify this pen" threads -- maybe suggest the creation of a new sub-forum?

 

I don't think so. Eventually some one will ID a pen, say a Moore...so you now have an idea what a Moore looks like...in fact that a Moore exists and was liked.

Then should you run into a Moore in a Flea Market....you can snatch it up cheap....where as with out the info, you could well pass it up, in you have never heard of it.

 

If it was stuck away in it's own sub-forum...how many folks would ever take a look.

So the guy getting no answer puts it on Ebay and is happy to get his $5.00 back....instead of Somgai, I am.

[Cryptos]

Slight necro (well, it is halloween here in NZ! http://www.dharmawheel.net/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)

 

Found the exact same Moore pen, same colour and pattern, nib looked the same. Sold for $215. I noticed that the seller, David Isaacson, did not specify the model, although suggested it was from the late 1930s. Perhaps it is an unknown model?

 

Anyway, it has just returned from the excellent workshop of Mr Fudge, so I shall give a spin around the block tonight.

 

Watch this space!