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I Think That Esties Have Ruined Me...


Vikhalla

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When I was just getting into fountain pens I went to a local swap meet and bought a silver Estie J (double jewel) with a 2668 nib. At the time, my only other pens were a TWSBI 580 and a vintage Waterman Facette (well, and some Varsity pens.) I was stunned by how well the Estie performed in comparison to the more expensive pens - the rolled steel tip just fit me and the ink flow was perfect. Until the sac stopped working. Either way, it planted the seed to go out and get another to try.

 

I ended up buying another double jeweled J - this time with a 2048 nib - off of eBay for $20. I bought it at the same time as I was trying out a $270 Franklin-Christoph pen with a 18K nib and all of the bells and whistles. I originally got into fountain pens because I have aspirations to be a writer and sitting down to type for a long session just didn't feel 'special', if that makes any sense. Well, after trying them both side-by-side I ended up sending back the FC pen because the Estie really did have everything that I wanted and it genuinely felt just as special as the more expensive pen.

 

I looked around various FP sites and see people putting pens with monster price tags on pedestals and actively trying to drive up the price of them as collector's items...and it absolutely enraged me. It brought images to mind of future generations of writers being shortchanged on the writing experience because they couldn't afford the price-tag of a PEN; all of them being driven sky-high by the collector market. Then I grabbed my little Estie and all was ok. I was very much in danger of falling off of the ledge and landing on the collector side - having massive amounts of pens with no body of work. Thanks to a chance encounter with Esterbrook I'm back on the path that I initially started on with FP's. (Not that there's anything wrong with collectors...other than driving up the prices :P)

 

To the point where I'm actually looking into starting an online shop catering to writers and creative types, marketing fountain pens as a possible cure for writers block rather than a luxury item. (It worked for me...maybe I can help others.)

 

...i really didn't mean for this to turn into a bitchfest about foutnain pen prices. I swear it's supposed to be a positive message!

Edited by Vikhalla

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I agree about the prices. If it's much more than $100, I see little point in it at all, except as a knock-knack, a dustable.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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I have found there are a number of wonderful pens available for under $100. Of my 14 pens, only four were bought from dealers new. I only have one pen that I don't like the way it writes - for me. And it is a much more expensive looking pen that some of the others. Four Pelikans - none of them over $75 shipped. Vintage and modern. Only one did I pay over $75 for and it was bought new.

Edited by Runnin_Ute

Brad

"Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind" - Rudyard Kipling
"None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain

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I cannot agree more, Vikhalla, with the basic attitude that your post makes manifest. It will perhaps be of interest to you a thread that I initiated several weeks ago about a very near issue: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/268456-a-paradox-on-pen-addiction/

There were many interesting thoughts expressed there, and to my surprise many of them manifested also a similar attitude. But, in any case, even though one is tempted to do so, it would be in my opinion utterly misguided to draw a neat line between the 100% collector and the 100% writer, or even between the lover of pens as jewels and the lover of pens as tools. There might be of course radical positions in both extremes, but the range of different attitudes towards pens and the world of pens is as enormous as human variability.

 

Although I cannot speak against expensive pens, since I own a pair of Nakayas, which are by the way very delightful, and two or three other pens over $100 with which I am not disappointed, I truly appreciate the attachment to a simple and serviceable pen that happens to have the smoothness, the quality of the line, the precise way of attacking the paper, and all that that makes you feel there is a non plus ultra writing experience...

 

As a coincidence, I also started a post in this Esterbrook forum (https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/269966-trying-to-enliven-an-esterbrook-pen/), and right now I am looking forward to get the pen (it is an LJ) back from the friend who is restoring it. I expect much from it, and hopefully it will give me the service that your Estie has been giving you. Long live to it! Or to both!

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I can understand your view on prices, but I avoid that by buying pens that aren't perfect. Scratches and ossified sacs make many pens affordable. Collectors like perfect and rare, I like affordable and find joy in simple repairs.

Your idea about selling pens meant to be used sounds great. When I "dry up" I switch pens and the words almost always flow again.

 

Paul

"Nothing is impossible, even the word says 'I'm Possible!'" Audrey Hepburn

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Just a short reminder, 2 or 3 cents worth ...

 

True enough, we collectors have, in the past (and still do today) pay sometimes exhorbitant prices for what we consider rarities in vintage pens. But that just reflects a consideration of aesthetic value, rather than intrinsic. A pen is a pen, and, as always, the business end of it all is where the point hits the paper. I admit to investing obscene amounts of money on pens like a Visumaster or oddball English Relief, just to have something I've never possessed from a certain period of the company's history. That's my addiction as a collector.

 

But I also have, and write with a number of inexpensive older pens, most of which cost me less than $10. Of those, my favorites are a Sheaffer triumph-nib touchdown, a lever-fill "school pen" and a few of what I think might be one of the most highly underrated pens, Parker Vectors. Those are all still available at reasonable prices (many under $30 used, and Vectors for around $10). No, they're not "wet noodle flexies", but neither is my writing style.

 

And it's the vintage pen collectors who, in the "dry years" ('70s and '80s) kept alive the interest in fountain pens, while the rest of the world went gaga over ballpoints, felt-tips and rollerballs. IMO, it was the collector community that encouraged companies like Waterman and Parker to get serious again about the fountain pen; Waterman with the LeMan in 1983, and Parker's later revival of the Duofold, etc. And I believe it was those events that sparked the resurgence in FP manufacturing to what it is today.

 

So yeah, I'll spend the rent money on a rare piece, but I, too, was also once a proud J-pen owner, and I know that because of the Renew point, mine won't write any better than yours. And while some sellers prize their stock to the point of charging ridiculous money, there are plenty of others from whom one can get a good writing pen for the price of a few bucks and a little work. Whatever we do to drive the price up on rarities, bargains will still show up in the "bread & butter" market.

 

And that's what makes this addiction wondrous.

Edited by Hobiwan

Best Regards
Paul


“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
– Albert Einstein

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I think there is a large difference between expensive vintage pens and expensive current production pens. I can see the collector spending big money on a rare vintage item, and it will generally hold its value. A big money current production pen, much over a hundred, no longer interests me although I used to buy Montblancs new and recently bought a few Waterman Carenes. If you have a lot of money to spend, go ahead and buy what you want, but I want money's worth of performance, not glitz. I think Esterbrook J series are about as old a pen as I want, because the other old pens just look old and run down to me. They remind me of all the broken pens in relatives' junk storage in the fifties. It's all I can manage to use a J-series, and I think I am allergic to hard rubber pens. I'm not rich, and I find messing with pens is only interesting at fairly low cost. Nearing retirement, I have decreasing use for pens at all, but for the shopping list a Pelikan K400 click top ballpoint is the most useful thing, right next to the Waterman Carene rollerball and the Montblanc 164 twist ballpoint. Broad refills in all those. With the broad refill you can use the same light touch you use with a fountain pen, the bigger ball rolls more easily. So, I will probably sell a lot of this stuff and concentrate on a specific type, for a collection only.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Vikhalla,

 

I understand completely what you're saying. I think you're perhaps not looking at wide enough a sample of fountain pens. If you linger just here and other sites full of collectors, you'll see lots of shiny but expensive and/or rare things go by.

 

Go over to gouletpens.com or jetpens.com and search for fountain pens less than $100. There's lots, and lots of them write well and can be used really successfully as pens to write with. A Pilot Metropolitan for $15 is new and easy to use and works beautifully. A Pilot 78G isn't much more. A Lamy Safari. All those boring, cheap, mass-produced pens the collectors ignore... just like the Esties were when they were new. And, like the Esties, many of the new, inexpensive pens are very nice writers.

 

Heck, the Pilot Varsity is $3, never seems to try out or leak, I've never had hard starts or a bad nib, and you can get them in colors. What more can you ask for a pen to just sit down and use?

 

Even in the vintage world, if you ignore the perfect, rare, unobtanium colors, you can get some very nice writers very affordably. I'm lazy (and have no time) and want to write with my pens, so I've gotten vintage pens from restorers - many of them still under $50, and working well. A Parker 45 or Targa 440 NOS from Teri over at Peyton Street isn't exotic or collectable... but they're great pens and write really well.

 

Don't let the high density of rare and exotic pens around here make you think that's all there is.

 

I do think there's something to what you say about writing with them, too. The slower pace of words on paper, and the need to actually know what you're going to write before you start means you think and write differently. I've written more than 50,000 words with a fountain pen this year, and haven't run out of ideas yet. One thing just seems to flow to another.

Edited by Lou Erickson

--

Lou Erickson - Handwritten Blog Posts

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I can't believe I am reading this. Let me state up front with apologies to my friend Brian Anderson Esterbrooks are the Yugo of fountain pens. My daily users are all statement pens, my first trade with Mike Fultz 25years ago a mint 452, a P51 1st year smooth silver cap and a 56 Cardinal. None leak, if I drop them they don't break and they identify me. Try writing with a professionally restored quality pen by Ron Zorn, Bill Hong, The Fudgeman, Mr Binder and a host of other restorers. You will run not walk away from those $20 pens.

Get to a pen show and try them

Jerry

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I can't believe I am reading this. Let me state up front with apologies to my friend Brian Anderson Esterbrooks are the Yugo of fountain pens. My daily users are all statement pens, my first trade with Mike Fultz 25years ago a mint 452, a P51 1st year smooth silver cap and a 56 Cardinal. None leak, if I drop them they don't break and they identify me. Try writing with a professionally restored quality pen by Ron Zorn, Bill Hong, The Fudgeman, Mr Binder and a host of other restorers. You will run not walk away from those $20 pens.

Get to a pen show and try them

Jerry

Ah, yes, I remember Mike. Made a couple of trades with him myself. A fair and honest man he was.

 

And I've also carried around and written with "statement pens". Sheaffer 14K Masterpiece, AAWaterman snake, Wahl/Ev Coronet ... but never for long. They never made much of a statement for me, as the corporate environment I worked in only seemed to know Mont Blanc as any kind of "prestige" pen, and I would become concerned as to their safety. Besides, none of them (to me) wrote any better than my old workhorse J-pen (except, perhaps, the Masterpiece, although all that gold made it a bit heavy to hold).

 

I do my writing these days with what I'd call an Esterbrook "statement pen". It's a Visumaster Model 3 (as Brian describes it) and it fits the bill perfectly. It's right for my hand, the 9314M nib knows what I like, and, well, it's me.

 

So, "high-class" pensters can disrespect and sneer at Esties all they want (Yugo indeed!). That's nothing new. But, for a pen anyone can use that writes well, Esterbrooks will be around for some time to come ... might even outlast a treasured 56 Cardinal, eh?

Best Regards
Paul


“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
– Albert Einstein

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Hobiwan

Got you by a few years 74 a week from Monday and finally retiring after 40 years in the motor businessand. I too came out of the 'corporate world' and I also carried the vaunted MB first a 149 and then a 146 in sterling. In a few words they are gone and now can annoy someone else. The Cardinal is already about a century old and looks as new. I do a bit tongue in cheek describe Esties but I don't personally like their size nor the nibs. If that makes me effete then so be it. Mike Fultz used to say that they would make a good bonfire. AA Waterman Snake eh? Very nice but an eyedropper and a bit risky to carry. Had a bunch of AA overlays but never a Snake. You have to know too that Brian is also interested in 'high class' pens as well. I've sold him a few a really good guy with a delighful wife

Jerry

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I can't believe I am reading this. Let me state up front with apologies to my friend Brian Anderson Esterbrooks are the Yugo of fountain pens. My daily users are all statement pens, my first trade with Mike Fultz 25years ago a mint 452, a P51 1st year smooth silver cap and a 56 Cardinal. None leak, if I drop them they don't break and they identify me. Try writing with a professionally restored quality pen by Ron Zorn, Bill Hong, The Fudgeman, Mr Binder and a host of other restorers. You will run not walk away from those $20 pens.

Get to a pen show and try them

Jerry

Jerry, this is why I love you so, never afraid to speak your mind. :) I will say I don't want to be the one to drop your 56 cardinal, but as far as statement pens are concerned, you will not get a pen any larger than a J, so for one with big hands, they may be a bit small. And just to add a little more ribbing, I type this with a MB 149 tuned by Mottishaw and a MB 121 restored by yours truly in my pocket. :)

www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.
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Brian

You know I am not a big guy but the J just seems small for my hands and as far as a MB 149 goes. I love German stuff, it is my second language in spite of the fact that I lived in Paris, Trish has a MB CLK convertible and a PPKS ( whoops that not a car) and I have an X5 BMW. Don't like their pens. My recent carry is a really cool pen made by Ariel he fabricated a two tone repousse' over a 52 and it is beautiful. BTW how can you type with an MB? I use a keyboard :rolleyes:

I have talked to Lisa a lot about another topic and I hope that is being resolved. See you for sure in Columbus

Jerry

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re Yugo... I get the drift of the analogy, but try to find a Yugo...actually, I would use a wholly different analogy, the 55 Chevy. Like Esterbrooks, they need a bit of work to run well, but are solid, built like tanks, can be driven forever, and are mechanically simple. Like Esterbrooks, they have a wide range of design options. And, like Esterbrooks, they have held value remarkably well. I've sold off all but three of my Esterbrooks and a bunch of different nibs, but the three I've kept -- a grey marbled Transitional J, a copper Dollar, and a black wartime bandless Dollar, are as elegant as many of my Sheaffers and Parkers and Waterm(e?)n.

 

As for Brian -- he's like the drug dealer who sells the stuff but doesn't use -- best to Lisa.

Tim

Tim

 timsvintagepens.com and @timsvintagepens

 

 

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As for Brian -- he's like the drug dealer who sells the stuff but doesn't use -- best to Lisa.

lol Tim. As part of my role as store owner I have to test my product, there are just so many pens to test I don't get around to using the esties all that much. :)

www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.
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actually, I would use a wholly different analogy, the 55 Chevy. Like Esterbrooks, they need a bit of work to run well, but are solid, built like tanks, can be driven forever, and are mechanically simple. Like Esterbrooks, they have a wide range of design options. And, like Esterbrooks, they have held value remarkably well.

Tim

Yep. I can't argue against that analogy.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

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Now I will take a stand. In no way shape or form are Esterbrooks as elegant as a Waterman, Parker or Sheaffers no way, not ever. Show me an overlay..just one, show me sterling silver or 14K gold or even gold filled. Show me furniture that exudes elegance. Show me an inlaid nib. Show me deco styling, Look i,ts a yeoman pen admit it. Practical (for some not me) robust, decent quality, but elegant. Please!

Jerry

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The Esterbrook is a nice, versatile pen that is easy to use, easy to adapt, and easy to maintain. They endure because they have a simple, classic look to them. Those signature pens are nice, but they are not 20 times the pen that the simple Estie is. It's the IDEA of owning those $1000 pens more than the improved function they bring.

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