Where To Get Schooled In Doric?

[Keyless Works]

I have been using faceted OMAS pens for a years now and it seems wrong to ignore the gorgeous Doric but I don't know where to start.

 

Is there a website or book where I can get a good understanding of the different models and nibs?

[Tylerjordan]

http://www.pensburymanor.com/pensburymanor/Eversharp_Doric_Pens.html

 

http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/profiles/doric.htm

 

Here are a couple pages with information on the Doric. The first link is from the website of this forum's moderator.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Tylerjordan

[Keyless Works]

Thank Tylerjordan, I did see these but the pictures on Syd's sight aren't quite big enough to read. Richard's site gives a helpful overview but I would like to know more details about the different nibs.

 

Maybe I can just put some questions to the forum:

 

Are the adjustable nibs more sought after? Are they useable as daily writers? What is the difference in function and desirability between the adjustable slider that reads "Eversharp" and the cutout one? Were the late vacuum fillers better pens than the earlier lever fillers? I know the Cathay is a color to avoid but are there others to watch out for?

[LBpens]

In my opinion, yes, yes, none, no, yes.

 

I would give you some food for thought by noting that Dorics are highly valued in the market these days, even a bubble maybe. The heart wants what the heart wants, but economically there are other Wahls where the potential for a bargain is much greater. The best values for Dorics are black ones (they don't discolor), and desk sets, IMO

[Keyless Works]

Thank you LBpens! What is the range of prices for a nice oversized Doric with the adjustable nib in excellent condition? I am okay with paying a slight premium if it is a pen a plan to keep in my collection.

[LBpens]

A black one maybe 350. A color, if not discolored, 400-500.

 

Or if you want a user, a color that IS discolored somewhat but good otherwisw might be a bargain. And, you should check out standard size Dorics, they aren't small, before deciding on the OS

Edited August 4, 2014 by LBpens

[Keyless Works]

Thank you that is very helpful...the hunt begins.

[MarcShiman]

OK, so here's a primer to Doric buying:

 

There are two generations - the easy way to tell between them is in the second generation, the cap band extends to the end of the cap. There are also multiple levels of quality - gold seal and non gold seal.

 

Of course, there are different sizes as well. The first generation had three sizes - a jr., standard, and oversize. The oversize are BIG pens, and not so common. They command the most money by far. The standard size are very nice size pens, about 5 1/4". Once they switched to the 2nd generation, there were two sizes - standard and senior. The 2nd gen seniors are a bit longer than the first gen standards - but much smaller than the 1st gen oversize. There are variations in sizes between the lever fillers and the vacuum fillers. Vac fillers only came in the 2nd generation, and are harder to restore, but I think they work pretty well.

 

With nibs, Wahl used an interchangeable nib just like the Pelikans of yesterday and today. There are a wide range of nibs available including the adjustable nibs. Signature flex nibs are fantastic nibs, and don't have the adjustment slider. Adjustables range from #3 size to #10 size - #9 and #10 I'm guessing were meant for the senior size pens, and #5, and #7 for the standard size. Generally speaking, IMHO, Wahl made the best American nibs of the era, so you won't usually go wrong. Great user pens.

 

Now the buying issues - 1st gen came in 5 colors - Jet (Black), Kashmir (dark green), Morocco (red), Burma (grey), and Cathay (light green). These pens do not discolor, but in first gen, Kashmir, Cathay, and to a lesser extent Morocco are horribly unstable plastics and are prone to crazing and crumbling at the tops of the caps and barrels. Be very careful to look carefully at the tops of the pens for translucency. That is the beginning of the end for that pen. I've heard Burmas have that problem too, but I've never seen it. Jet does not have that problem - the problem with Jet is that its a much softer celluloid, so you are looking at the sharpness of the facets as it wears much faster than the others. 1st gen O/S pens in good shape with a #10 nib range from $600 (in Jet) to $1500 (in Burma). But personally I worry about investing that much money in a pen long term that is likely to someday crumble. (then again, transparent Omas have that same problem, but that's for another day). Standard size pens with #7 nibs tend to go for $300 - $600.

 

2nd gen are similar - I don't know the names of all the colors, but they are "hatch" patterns (first gen are marble patterns). A couple of the colors have issues with disintegrating, particularly the beige and the purple. I've never seen a red or blue craze. Senior size second gens with a #9 nib (I don't think they came with #10's, but people might have fit them) typically go as high as $800, but usually less.

 

Everything I've written to here is gold seal pens, their luxury line. There's plenty to know about the lower line of pens, but they aren't up to the same quality and I've never bothered with them. There are some really beautiful ones, including one in tan with green veins that is stunning (also prone to crazing). Figure $100 - $250 max for them.

 

I really focused on Dorics in the beginning of my collecting pens, and eventually moved on to other pens (including my favorite facetted pens, Conklin Nozacs). But Dorics are beautiful pens, and I've recently found a couple of stable oversize pens to work on.

 

Syd, feel free to fill in gaps....

[Keyless Works]

Thank you Marc that is exactly what I was looking for!

[Keyless Works]

I was reading an old thread about some horrible crystallization on some vintage Tibaldis that Tom Westerich had and I am getting more nervous about Dorics.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/206514-cristallized-celluloid-pens-a-tibaldi-trasparente-ruined/

 

I found a very nice Kashmir Doric in the standard size for a couple hundred and while I am told there is no crystallization on the pen I am not sure it is worth owning...if the pen survived this far without crystallization is it safe to buy and use? It doesn't have the adjustable nib but it seems like it could be a good starting place for me.

[MarcShiman]

Those are actually modern Tibaldis - mid 90's

 

Hard to predict the future - will an 80 year old pen in perfect condition suddenly start disintegrating?

 

I don't know, I wouldn't invest in them, but I own a few to use them.

[Keyless Works]

Oh wow I didn't realize that...to my (obviously limited) knowledge they used vintage celluloid to make those ones from the 90s though so maybe that's the issue.

 

I don't consider any of my pens an investment...every one I have is to be used and enjoyed. I will see how this one goes.

[FredRydr]

Necro thread.

 

The first generation had three sizes - a jr., standard, and oversize. The oversize are BIG pens, and not so common. They command the most money by far. The standard size are very nice size pens, about 5 1/4"....

 

I have a very nice craze-free Kashmir Doric that is a bit over 5 1/2 inches capped, making it longer than Marc's standard, but it sure doesn't have much girth and it sports a No. 7 adjustable nib. Perhaps the 5 1/4 inch measurement is a tad short?

 

Fred

[MarcShiman]

Wahl was notorious for its pens coming out all sorts of lengths - I have deco bands (their Patrician/Duofold competitor) in all sizes ranging from 5" to 5 1/4' and I've seen short O/S Dorics at 5 3/8. So, I should have qualified my dimensions to say that they are generally 5 1/4 for the standards to 5 3/4 for the oversize.

 

The girth tends to be the determining factor in the end.

[Tom Heath]

May I suggest you visit a pen show , a place where in a single day you can pick up and examine maybe

10,000 pens or zero in on a Brand and or model and get to hold many of them the same day..

 

Wahl-Eversharp Pen Makers were in their time , light years ahead of most American Pen makers, in their

utility and design ... Even today they stand out amount the legends of surviving vintage pens.

 

The Dorics, Equipoised, and the Gold Seal pen lines were / are simply outstanding

not only, the general style but also the many sizes offered. From Ring Tops thru Oversized models there is a size and shape to fit every hand and writing need.

 

At a show you can pick them up , feel them, try them out take them for a test drive, before you buy.

 

I recently bought my 5th Coronet BY Eversharp with a 7 point adjustable nib having the Red Pyroxylin

lined Triangular Windows., simply an outstanding accomplishment in Beauty and utility, your hand will know the difference.

[View from the Loft]

Where to get schooled in Doric? Why, the north east of Scotland as that is where it is spoken :-)