De A Document V. M B Permanent V. Noodler's Bulletproof

[SeeksAdvice]

Our paper vendor has reached new levels of bad. Thought it couldn't get worse than "Universal" paper. I was wrong. Think this new stuff is 100% recycled Soviet toilet paper (post-use). Tsuki-yo out of a Binderized M1000 EF acts like I'm using LRM or Concord Bream. "Bulletproof" inks, well, can almost read the letters completely on the other side at times due to bleed through. Even Sei-Boku had issues with it. Next step, I think, is to pull out the Salix or DRI.

Which of the three "permanent" inks has the best behavior? Almost broke down and bought every MB permanent offering from FPH, but decided to wait and see what the thoughts were between it and DeA's stuff.

Looking at things like behavior on the page.

[BlazeOrangeGuy]

Have you tried Noodler's Black?

[SeeksAdvice]

As noted, this stuff doesn't work with bulletproof inks worth a hoot. Closest I have is X-Feather.

 

Things I've tried so far:

- Sei-Boku

- X-Feather

- OMBB

- Henry Hudson Blue

- Midway Blue

- 54th Mass.

- Tsuki-Yo

- Tsukushi

- Take-Sumi

- Diamine Poppy Red

 

Four different ink manufacturers. All with pretty much the same results. Technically, we aren't supposed to use black, but for notes I don't think it matters. FWIW, all of my pens are either F or EF. I could just load everything up with Bad Green Gator for complete illegibility. Of course, with my handwriting, most people wouldn't know the difference.

[View from the Loft]

I have used Bulletproof Black, X Feather and DeA Document Black on the nasty copy paper we have at work. However, our nasty copy paper seems to be a lot better than yours - my sympathies.

 

The three blacks that I tried were all in the same pen and nib, so this is a genuine comparison.

 

X Feather lived up to it's reputation, and caused me no clogging or other pen maintenance issues.

 

Bulletproof Black performed well, and likewise, caused no clogging or other pen maintenance issues.

 

DeA Document Black. Performs well, but is not quite so black when dry. However, I find the pen needs to be flushed out more frequently (every 6 or 7 refills) than the two Noodlers' blacks. I have not experienced any complete clogs or refusals to write, but you know it's time to flush the pen out when you have to operate the piston in the convertor to get ink on the paper.

 

As with anything, this is my experience, and someone else may well have had different results.

[doggonecarl]

Sadly, there is paper so bad that no fountain pen ink will behave well on it. My work buys cheap paper, so I use my own pads and notebooks and when I have to write on the printer paper, I use my favorite ballpoint or rollerball.

[napalm]

Try Platinum Blue Black.

[Morbus Curiositas]

DA I have reviewes them...

 

Yes there is showthrough but it has to drench the paper in order to comply with the 727... standard

 

This is minimised by using thinner nibs an a tad bit of better paper.

 

It is offered in 8 coulours now...

 

Best thing is there is a special thinning agent avalable...

An ink without pigment as because for its bombproofness you can't dilutte with water

 

With this agent you can mix your own personal shade if the colour!

 

 

Although just a fan and not working for DA I will send you a private message 4=3

 

 

Regards

 

Peter

[carlos.q]

Maybe you should try a pen with a drier nib...

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

As sei-boku and N54M don't perform as desired, (!!!!), it appears that going to an iron-gall ink might be necessary. Even if the paper is so dreadful that it can only be used single-sided, at least the line quality of what's written should be more than adequate.

 

A light hand and a narrow nib can also help.

 

Even though I think its worthwhile to try dilution as a no/low-cost means to match ink to paper, I'm not hugely optimistic that it would be enough in this instance.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited August 1, 2014 by Sandy1

[amberleadavis]

Seeks, I'll start thinking about this question more often when I go through and write reviews. I choose to use good paper, but I know that isn't always an option. I can say the I've been using the MB 90 year ann gray that I acquired at Dromgoole's and it has not yet bled through any paper, but it isn't in one of my notoriously wet writers.

[amberleadavis]

Oh, and considering what Sandy said .... I have recently been playing with some of the IG inks. I think you would like an IG.

[Sandy1]

Seeks, I'll start thinking about this question more often when I go through and write reviews. I choose to use good paper, but I know that isn't always an option. I can say the I've been using the MB 90 year ann gray that I acquired at Dromgoole's and it has not yet bled through any paper, but it isn't in one of my notoriously wet writers.

 

Hi,

 

For quite some time I also set aside lesser papers for my Ink Reviews, in part because I couldn't decide the sort to use. In the end I settled on a general purpose 20lb copy/print paper, that a business with a 'Green Policy' would find acceptable for printing Black. It seems the main criteria for office use is how they behave in a copy / print machine and cost.

 

There's always going to be a new nadir in papers that come along. Some FP users will do more than others to keep FPs in their warm grasp, yet I know a fair number of people who decline to use an FP on poor paper, so use their FPs only for personal off-duty writing. (I am not so fussy.)

 

Bye,

S1

Edited August 1, 2014 by Sandy1

[SeeksAdvice]

Based on recent testing, yep, it looks like IG inks for that stuff.

[raging.dragon]

If X-Feather feathers on this paper, it's unlikely any fountain pen ink will work on that paper. Things to try: a drier nib, Iron Gall inks.

[Jared]

I've had great luck with Sailor Kiwa-Guro on bad paper. It's now cheap, and you'll need to clean your pen more often, but it's great stuff.

If you'd like to try a sample, send me a PM & I'll mail you one. My treat in return for your enjoyable post (recycled soviet toilet paper description had me laughing).

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jared

[Morbus Curiositas]

Our paper vendor has reached new levels of bad. Thought it couldn't get worse than "Universal" paper. I was wrong. Think this new stuff is 100% recycled Soviet toilet paper (post-use). Tsuki-yo out of a Binderized M1000 EF acts like I'm using LRM or Concord Bream. "Bulletproof" inks, well, can almost read the letters completely on the other side at times due to bleed through. Even Sei-Boku had issues with it. Next step, I think, is to pull out the Salix or DRI.

Which of the three "permanent" inks has the best behavior? Almost broke down and bought every MB permanent offering from FPH, but decided to wait and see what the thoughts were between it and DeA's stuff.

Looking at things like behavior on the page.

 

 

I've had great luck with Sailor Kiwa-Guro on bad paper. It's now cheap, and you'll need to clean your pen more often, but it's great stuff.

If you'd like to try a sample, send me a PM & I'll mail you one. My treat in return for your enjoyable post (recycled soviet toilet paper description had my laughing).

 

Hi Jared great Idea of sending samples

 

I will send you and Mr Seeksadvice some samples of the DA Document Currently own and use for work too

 

I have Blue, dark blue, Black, Green and brown and the special thinning agent....

 

 

If you want a sample please send me your adress in the messenger.... I will be glad to share some of this wonderful stuff

 

http://tinten-online.de/

Regards Peter

[Jared]

Peter,

 

Thank you for your kind offer. I have sent you a message, and hope that Mr Seeksadvice does also.

 

Best Regards,

Jared

[SeeksAdvice]

Done.

I retested some inks on the paper of doom.

 

Diamine RI actually showed some feathering on the page, but no bleed through. Thinking it's probably one of the inks of choice.

Noodlers Midway Blue had severe penetration problems. No consistent color to the lines.

Noodlers 54th Mass. had a bit more feathering than DRI, but bled through

Diamine Poppy Red looked like somebody had make somewhat jagged cuts in the page due to feathering

The Iroshizuku inks Tsuki-Yo and Take-Sumi were quite disappointing on the page, with bad feathering and some bleed through even from a Sailor EF nib.