Noodler's Apache Sunset Runs Too Dry?

[lgsoltek]

Hello

I recently purchased a bottle of Noodler's Apache Sunset because of its wonderfully pretty shading. It does work very fine and nice on a dip pen. However, when I inked up my Pilot Justus 95 (FM nib) with it, it seems to write very dry, and if I try a bit of flex, it frequently railroads at once, or even stops writing at all.

At first I thought it was some problem with the pen itself, so I took the nib and the feed apart and cleaned them to no avail. Then I inked it up with Iroshizuku Fuyu-gaki, and the problem disappeared! And it flexes beautifully. So I guess it's because Apache Sunset is more on the dry side and the feed can't keep up?

I used Rohrer and Klingner's Scabiosa with this same pen, and it feels a bit dry as well, although not as bad as it is with Apache Sunset. So maybe this pen needs ink with very good flow?

[TSherbs]

Interesting. I was just considering ordering Apache Sunset to help me with a dry-ish pen, but this gives me pause. Let's see what others say.

[Runnin_Ute]

I haven't experienced that with Apache Sunset. Have used with fine, medium, broad and 1.1 italic nibs. The fine and medium were Pelikan M205's - I personally don't care for the look of it out the 1.1 in my Al Star. I haven't tried it with the flex nib in on my Konrad, (it currently has a broad).

[Inkydinkydog]

I use it in 1.5's and 1.1's in Safaris and Ahabs. No problems.

[WaskiSquirrel]

I have never experienced this with Apache Sunset. It's really wet. Even in my dry-writing pens I get decent results with it.

 

I own a Pilot Justus 95. I partly filled it and had no problems. I actually filmed myself writing with it for a YouTube review of the pen thanks to your post. Unfortunately, I only post my reviews about once a week, so it won't go up until next week.

 

Unfortunately, what this means is that I don't have a good explanation for the behavior you're seeing with this ink. It was awesome in my review and actually made me wonder why I hadn't used it in this pen before.

[DaveBj]

Flows just fine in my Cross medium point.

[I like mango cheesecake]

Yes, I found AS running a bit dry on the finer nibs and really waxy papers. On the broader nibs and fatter stubs, it was wet and juicy

[ac12]

I found my 2 Lamy 1.1 nibs were a bit on the dry side.

I had to lift the tines slightly (increasing the gap between the tines and the feed) to get more ink flow to the paper.

Be careful when you do this, it is easy to get too much separation and then you get a WET pen.

I use a few brass sheets of different thicknesses to judge how much spacing I started off with and how much I am creating.

[lgsoltek]

I have never experienced this with Apache Sunset. It's really wet. Even in my dry-writing pens I get decent results with it.

 

I own a Pilot Justus 95. I partly filled it and had no problems. I actually filmed myself writing with it for a YouTube review of the pen thanks to your post. Unfortunately, I only post my reviews about once a week, so it won't go up until next week.

 

Unfortunately, what this means is that I don't have a good explanation for the behavior you're seeing with this ink. It was awesome in my review and actually made me wonder why I hadn't used it in this pen before.

 

Thank you, Waski! I will surely be checking your video soon. May I asked which nib size is your Justus?

It is a really wierd problem for me, I guess I would try it again later with Apache Sunset and see if the problem persists.

[lgsoltek]

I found my 2 Lamy 1.1 nibs were a bit on the dry side.

I had to lift the tines slightly (increasing the gap between the tines and the feed) to get more ink flow to the paper.

Be careful when you do this, it is easy to get too much separation and then you get a WET pen.

I use a few brass sheets of different thicknesses to judge how much spacing I started off with and how much I am creating.

 

Thank you, ac12 for your suggestion. Although I dare not try this with my Justus... It's just too expensive for me to risk it! Maybe I will try inking it again with Apache later and see if it's still the same problem.

[lgsoltek]

I use it in 1.5's and 1.1's in Safaris and Ahabs. No problems.

 

Two days ago I got the Ahab and inked it up with AS, and it railroaded and stops writing a lot as well, although this might be a problem of Ahab. How does your Ahab write? Mine does not seem very reliable.

[lgsoltek]

Yes, I found AS running a bit dry on the finer nibs and really waxy papers. On the broader nibs and fatter stubs, it was wet and juicy

 

True. My Justus with AS writes very terribly with bad papers. I tried it once with Clairefontaine it's better but still railroads quite a lot. I shall try again sometime later with good papers.

[DaveBj]

I have never experienced this with Apache Sunset. It's really wet. Even in my dry-writing pens I get decent results with it.

 

I own a Pilot Justus 95. I partly filled it and had no problems. I actually filmed myself writing with it for a YouTube review of the pen thanks to your post. Unfortunately, I only post my reviews about once a week, so it won't go up until next week.

 

Unfortunately, what this means is that I don't have a good explanation for the behavior you're seeing with this ink. It was awesome in my review and actually made me wonder why I hadn't used it in this pen before.

What name do you use on YT?

[WaskiSquirrel]

 

Thank you, Waski! I will surely be checking your video soon. May I asked which nib size is your Justus?

It is a really wierd problem for me, I guess I would try it again later with Apache Sunset and see if the problem persists.

 

I'll upload it sometime today. I got busy after I filmed it yesterday and have church this morning. But, with the heat predicted for today, I'll probably want to be indoors!

 

The pen itself is a fine point.

[WaskiSquirrel]

What name do you use on YT?

 

I called myself WaskiSquirrel (original, right?). Just so no one is surprised: the video won't be up until later today.

[lgsoltek]

Follow-up:

Today I tried my Justus 95 with Apache Sunset again, sadly the result is the same. It just railroads too much. Then I tried mixing AS with water (2:1), it didn't help (although the colour stayed pretty much the same). So I tried adding a needle point of liquid soap to break the surface tension (I seemed to have read it somewhere in the forum), and voilà!! It now works beautifully! I can now flex my Justus as much as possible and no railroading at all!

A similar thing happened too with R&K Scabiosa in my Vanishing Point - it railroads too. I tried the same thing and now it works well.

 

So I guess these two inks have a surface tension too strong for these two Pilot pens to write wet? Does it have anything to do with temperature, humidity, etc.?

Also, I wonder if putting "soaped ink" in pens is a safe thing to do? Could someone assure me of this?

[amberleadavis]

I think your pen needs a wet ink. AS doesn't play nicely in my dry pens.

[DaveBj]

Follow-up:

Today I tried my Justus 95 with Apache Sunset again, sadly the result is the same. It just railroads too much. Then I tried mixing AS with water (2:1), it didn't help (although the colour stayed pretty much the same). So I tried adding a needle point of liquid soap to break the surface tension (I seemed to have read it somewhere in the forum), and voilà!! It now works beautifully! I can now flex my Justus as much as possible and no railroading at all!

A similar thing happened too with R&K Scabiosa in my Vanishing Point - it railroads too. I tried the same thing and now it works well.

 

So I guess these two inks have a surface tension too strong for these two Pilot pens to write wet? Does it have anything to do with temperature, humidity, etc.?

Also, I wonder if putting "soaped ink" in pens is a safe thing to do? Could someone assure me of this?

It appears you have found the solution, to coin a pun I, too, have read about adding a tiny bit of soap to the ink to make it run better, and I had mentally filed that piece of information away for future use, should I ever run across a dry-writing pen-ink combo. I will not jeopardize my tiny amount of expertise by making an absolute statement, but I do believe that there is nothing in what you have done that will be detrimental to your pens.

[WaskiSquirrel]

I've never been to Beijing, so I'll concede that the ink may perform differently in different climates. In SW North Dakota (where I live), the humidity is generally quite low. It could be that climate is affecting the ink.

 

In any case, I'm glad the dish soap worked. I've heard this suggested for other inks, though I haven't tried it myself.

[TSherbs]

I think your pen needs a wet ink. AS doesn't play nicely in my dry pens.

I am worried about this being the case in my dryer pens