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How Can Some People Be Sooo Stooopid?!


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#1 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 13:39

And of course, as I'm SURE you can imagine,  :rolleyes: I'm talking about Fleabay sellers.

 

I realize of course, almost all of them aren't pen people and don't know a Parker 51 from an ironing board. I THINK I Already take that into account when communicating with them with questions.

 

I am trying (TRYING!) to find a  P-51 for a member here. 

 

This is usually my wording of the length question. "Would you please Carefully measure the pens length for me with it capped in the closed position. ("in the closed position" was added long ago as I Already knew they didn't know "capped" from an Avocado.) 

 

I've had TWO sellers this morning come back with, "It's 5 3/4" long".

 

My ass it is.

 

At first, my poor brain did a 8 point roll just tryng to figure out how.in.the.hell they could Possibly get 5 3/4" with the largest most apparent closest real length being a full 1/2" less than that.

 

Of course, once I moved the safety cover off the STOOOPID switch and clicked it to ON, it came to me.  :rolleyes:  They measured it in the Posted position.

 

Please refer back to exactly how I worded the question. I ask you, how in the World could Anyone Possible construe "in the closed position" as being the same as "in the ready to write position".

 

How?! (See thread topic?)

 

Now, the Real insane part of this error is there is even LESS difference in the lengths of the two difference size pens Posted than Capped. So, the manner in which they erred makes the measuring they are already completely Incapable of even More critical than it was to begin with.  ACKKK!

 

Sigh. I guess I will need to change the qualifier part of the question to "in the capped, closed, as you would put the pen in your pocket, position."

 

So sadly, the stark raving mad, foaming at the mouth rabid part is that I'm Still Actually having to wonder if That will be Clear Enough...  Again, I'm not trying to convert these folks thinking to Penese, I just want them to tell me how damn long the pen is. This Should Not be That tough.

 

Ok, I'll go double dose on my meds now.  ;)  

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl-And of course, *I'M* the one who so hard ass to the sellers. Sheesh, I wonder why.  :rolleyes: 


Edited by OcalaFlGuy, 19 July 2014 - 12:58.


#2 risingsun

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 13:56

I'm sure you feel better now, Bruce...

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#3 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 14:00

:D

 

I'm sure when our fellow member finally gets his new to him Burgundy or Black Demi 51, I will.  ;)  It'll all be worth it then.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#4 CraigR

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 14:11

I feel your pain Bruce  :headsmack:

 

A few weeks ago, I had an ongoing discussion via e-mail with a seller about measuring a pen with a slip on cap in the closed position (capped). The pen in discussion was a Parker "21". The upshot of the discrepancy we were discussing was "how far onto the pen should the cap be pushed before measuring?" I noted that on the "21" I have on my desk, there could be a significant difference in measured length depending on how far onto the barrel the cap is seated. 

 

How is that difference addressed when posting sizes or when asking for clarification from sellers?

 

Craig


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#5 Snargle

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 14:20

Maybe you should ask them to put the cap on the part of the pen that has the pointy metal thing sticking out?  :D


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#6 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 14:21

 

How is that difference addressed when posting sizes or when asking for clarification from sellers?

 

Craig

 

You're just trying to push me the rest of the way off the edge aren't you Craig.  :lticaptd:

 

Heck if I know.  I keep flicking the STOOOPID switch back and forth between On and Off and I'm not getting another answer.  ;) 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl 



#7 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 14:25

Maybe you should ask them to put the cap on the part of the pen that has the pointy metal thing sticking out?  :D

 

Oh, That would be a Definite FAIL.

 

The jewel on the cap end comes somewhat to a point. Some sellers would Swear that jewel is metal. (There is a 51 who's jewel IS metal.)

 

Sorry Larry, that would only shoot them off Deep into the Galaxy of Flummoxed.   ;)

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#8 Cyber6

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 14:46

 

So sadly, the stark raving mad, foaming at the mouth rabid part is that I'm Still Actually having to wonder if That will be Clear Enough...  Again, I'm not trying to convert these folks thinking to Penese, I just want them to tell me how damn long the pen is. This Should Not be That tough.

 

I deal with i.diots on a regular basis... 

 

Why don't you try the following:

 

"Dear Seller...  I love the look of your pen, I would love to bid on it but I am not sure if this is a Full Size or the Demi model (smaller).. Do you mind  measuring the pen (with the cap on) and tell me if the measurement  is closer to  SIZEA.. or ..SIZEB,  Again  Thanks so Much."

 

 

Key points:

 

1. Tell them you are ready to spend money on it (I would love to bid)

2. DON'T tell them which size you are looking for.  

3. Be ohhh soooo polite is disgusting.   :rolleyes:

 

 

If that doesn't work.... I'll eat my hat....   :lol:


Edited by Cyber6, 18 July 2014 - 14:46.

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#9 migo984

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 15:16

Bruce! You've got to give up eBay! It can't be doing your blood pressure any good at all. In fact, I think you ought to give up using fountain pens altogether and donate all your pens to me. You see, I'm only concerned for your well-being........... :-)

 

Marie


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#10 inkstainedruth

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 15:17

Bruce, I feel your pain.  And it's not just Fleabay sellers.

I picked up what turned out to be a late-model Parker Parkette (for those not familiar, think lever-fill version of a P21) recently at an antiques mall about an hour and a half from me.  It was a good price, IMO -- but the woman in the store told me it was a Parker 50 (because she saw the date code and thought that was the model number).  It didn't make a difference to me -- the pen looked to be in good condition.  But I should have had the warning bells go off in my head, since one of the other items in the store (and in her own booth, at that) was a hackle -- a tool used for removing the outer coat of flax stalks to get to the fiber strands at the core -- that she had listed as a "wool comb".   And she completely blew me off when I pointed this out to her.  It looked to be in great condition, but *not* worth the price she was asking for it; plus, I didn't want to patronize her booth at that point (the pen was at a different booth).  Sigh.

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#11 JotterAddict62

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 15:57

Bruce, your topics always make me laugh, cry, and think.

 

Remember there is a song by REO Speedwagon called 157 Riverside Ave. [ There are so many studio/live versions out there ]

The one version I have from A Decade of Rock & Roll 1970-1980 and the one line says [ I have to speak in their language ]

to paraphrase. So Bruce you will have to regress to a primitive language [ Dumbing Down ( See Wikipedia )] so you can communicate with the primitive.

Now this topic had me go look and measure my Parker 51 Demi's and this is what I have come up with.

 

1] Parker Cordovan Brown 51 Vac [date code 7] measures 4 3/4 inches posted [Approx]

2] Parker Burgundy 51 Aero [date code missing] measures 5 1/16 inches posted [Approx]

3] Parker Forest Green 51 Aero [ date code 8 ] measures 5 1/16 inches posted [Approx]

4] Parker Dark Burgundy 51 Aero [date code missing] measures 5 1/16 inches posted [Approx]

 

Looking in the Parker51 book had to change the Cordovan Brown Aero to Dark Burgundy

But to me it looks a Cordovan Brown......

 

Please Bruce do not let your head explode as we would all miss all your fun topics.

 

Ken


Edited by JotterAddict62, 18 July 2014 - 16:09.


#12 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 16:02

Bruce! You've got to give up eBay! It can't be doing your blood pressure any good at all. In fact, I think you ought to give up using fountain pens altogether and donate all your pens to me. You see, I'm only concerned for your well-being........... :-)

 

Marie 

 

You're always such a sweet lady looking out for me Marie.  I need all the help I can get you know.

 

This was just an especially jolting pothole on the Fleabay Expressway, exasperated by the frustration of an especially low tide of the requested Black or Burgundy Demi Aeros.  :(

 

I did finally get both of the sellers two brain synapses to make contact [1] and got good measurements, one Was a Demi but not the preferred color(s), the other was Burgundy but a Full Size. And he goes down swinging.  No problem, there'll be more at bats in this game.   :thumbup:

 

[1] One seller is a 10,000 seller. His main body description if one of those commercial premade ones that on my computer is Massively shifted to the right and cuts off the last couple letters of each sentence. :wacko:  His 5 3/4" was a typo that should have been 5 3/8". You can't even count on the high volume pros to measure or type...

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#13 gary

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 16:11

If you're doing email, how about a photo?

#14 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 16:42

Gary, if you mean asking the seller for a pic of say the pen next to a ruler, yeah, that Would Be nice. 

 

There are plenty of listings that do that. But, if you see enough of those, there are issues with that seemingly good idea too. If the angle is off a bit or the pen isn't lined right up on the ruler, it doesn't do much good. 

 

As I mentioned to Inkstainedruth in the Plummer thread in Parkerville, you also have to watch being (what the seller perceives as) a PIA bidder. Then they either just won't answer any more questions or they may even ban you from bidding sensing you are going to be some kind of future problem child for them.

 

There is a seller right now we are discussing in Parkerville who is likely just pi****g away maybe $150 just because after 2 very needed questions he has copped a 'tude and become a deaf mute.  :rolleyes: 

 

This morning, and usually, I've found the best way to deal with it is just to Try and stay calm (yes, I CAN actually Do that  :P ) and explain to them why they didn't sufficiently answer the question and why it's important.  In doing so on another listing, I gave the seller some info on 51 smilie marks [1] that he ended up being very appreciative of.   

 

[1] What causes them and why with a 51 the (still in this specific case,) loose clip is More of a PIA.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

 

 



#15 gary

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 19:40

Sorry, I meant how about sending them a pic of a capped pen?

But I certainly agree that someone will screw up even the simplest request.

gary

#16 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 19:44

"Nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently persistent fool."

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#17 J English Smith

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 19:52

Hey, Bruce, by the by, if you hear of anyone who has a 51 demi aero cap (any condition) for sale as a part, let me know, OK? I got a capless cocoa a year or so ago that still needs to find its other half...


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#18 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 20:31

JES, have you checked with Ernesto Soler at Parker51.com? 

 

I'll keep my eyes open for you for sure.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#19 JotterAddict62

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 20:38

Talk about uninformed;

 

eBay item number:
151358442103
 
Get 'em Bruce
Set them straight...
 
Looks like all sellers others listings are alright. Just must be a wrong cut & paste job
on the listing.. Don't be too hard on the seller..

Edited by JotterAddict62, 18 July 2014 - 20:43.


#20 Cryptos

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 20:49

Wow, that's a beautiful green Parker. It's a pity that some ignorant fool has personalised it with their name engraved on the clip.  :rolleyes:


 

 

 


#21 kestrel

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 20:57

My heart aches for you, Bruce.

 

In about four weeks I will have my brand new 9th grade honors students do their first laboratory exercise.  It is a simple getting to know the lab equipment sort of thing.  One of the steps requires them to convert a measurement in centimeters to millimeters.  For the metrically challenged, that means multiple by ten.  Half of them will immediately reach for their calculators.

 

I have found it necessary to instruct some of my students on the correct manner of holding and using scissors.  And measuring things (twice) before cutting.

 

If it makes you feel better, you are not alone.  I just picked up a rather nice Conklin S3 (the same model used by Mark Twain from 1904-1907) in excellent condition from an online auction house not to be named for the princely sum of $22.00 US.  The nib was in beautiful shape with lots of tipping, no cracks, no large scratches.  All it needed was a simple resac.  Why the bargain price?  It was listed as a Cooklin.  I found it by accident while looking for something else.  A simpul speling misteak. 


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#22 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 21:12

:lticaptd:

 

Ha. That's a good one, a cut and paste error I'd guess too.

 

I think caveat emptor goes for both bidders and sellers on Fleabay, BOTH have their own responsibilites to know what they are bidding on or selling.

 

I am much more prone to message a seller if I think that even accidentally they may lead a bidder astray with his claims. Or even if the seller has dramatically negatively impacted their own chances of getting what they should for their item. That won't happen here. The seller is going to stare right as his mistake every time he looks at his selling page. If he can't figure it out from that, the only person he's affected

here is himself and not very much there.

 

I AM a bit curious who will roll over in their graves the most revolutions, Mr. Parker or Mr. Esterbrook...  :P

 

 

Kestrel, I remember my very first metrics test in 7th or 8th grade.  Without a doubt still the lowest score I've ever scored on any exam. Thankfully, I figured it out pretty quickly. I still remember my eyes bugging out of my head when Mr. Loll handed me back my paper. As I was usually a good student, I wondered why he was looking at me like I'd lost my mind. (And yes, I still remember the exact score.)

 

Cooklin. That's hilarious. I got a case of Easterbrook nibs like that once, and for not much more than your Cooklin.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 



#23 JotterAddict62

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 22:38

When I was new to the Parker fountain pens from the Jotters I was not too bright [ Some people are not as bright as a 5 watt light bulb ] but I did the research and describe items the best I could. At least some sellers say straight up they know nothing about pens.[ I like that. ] I can work with that with the knowledge  that I have gain when looking at Parker's online or out in the wild.

But for me at 5 watt light bulb is way brighter than me on other pen brands.

 

Someday I might be as bright as a 25 watt bulb.



#24 brgmarketing

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 01:09

When it comes to common sense, please keep in mind:

 

Common sense is very uncommon.


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#25 vikrmbedi

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 02:03

do you think sending an image like below to the seller would help? :D

 

gG5g9m4.jpg



#26 JotterAddict62

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 02:13

I think now a days you need what they call it ? Oh Yea an [ APP ] for the mobile device the person has

so they use their thumbs.

I do not have a cell phone only an ipod that I found on the street and do not have web service for it.

I need to get a cell phone just to put in the car for the road side emergencies. [ Note to self; do more research

on cell phones. ]



#27 CraigR

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 03:36

I have stopped letting Ebay sellers know of an obvious error in their ad. The overwhelming number of negative responses to my unsolicited aid convinced me to stop. So many times I have been ready, willing and able to buy on-line, pending an answer to my question or a clarification, only to be met with hostility or just being ignored. Of course, many of these instances evolved from the seller being completely uninformed about the item they are selling. 

 

Just to make sure it is clear that this is not just a rant about Ebay, I must also mention that there are many very good sellers online who make every effort to be clear and correct in describing their products. They are also very helpful answering questions. Much of the time, when I am looking for something specific, I contact sellers I have dealt with in the past and ask if they can help me find the item.

 

From now on I am going to ask Bruce to do my Ebay searches and deals as he seems to be very good at it, already has had his nervous breakdown and has pulled the hair from his head.  :wallbash:

 

Craig


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#28 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 04:08

Anytime I can help Craig, holler.

 

It was no biggee today. Like I told our fellow member looking for the 51. It all worked out just fine. We finally got the info we needed and even our peeps here had a few good yucks over it. It's not the first time sellers have wired me out and it probably won't be the last. 

 

I had a good time tonight going over a bunch of pics of one for him with a fine tooth comb and writing up a full page of more than he'd need to know about it. I even dated it to 58 or 59 which is as close as you can get without a date code. I had one last question for the seller so I tossed in some of the intel on his own

pen that he's owned for awhile I'll bet money that even he didn't know.

 

And I actually have a pretty good head of hair even if it's graying a bit on the edges.  :unsure:

 

It's all good. 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#29 Dickkooty2

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 04:59

Bruce, I hope you are feeling better after your explosion. For those of advanced ages, I'd suggest laying off the RCs and swig some Pepto Bismol.

 

I seem to have found a group of ebay sellers in Germany and The Netherlands who know where of they speak on Pelikan and their family of related brands (all defunct), Geha, MBs, and Fend SuperNorma, I correspond with them on some needs I may have and am glad for their help. 

 

Of course, I am not an avid collector of the arcane. I simply want representative samples of design at various points in time.

 

I say settle down, but I just had my Lisinopril increased from 20 to 30 mgs. So who am I to talk?



#30 chunya

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 09:29

do you think sending an image like below to the seller would help? :D

 

gG5g9m4.jpg

My students are probably on par with kestrel's, and present them with this and their heads would probably explode (the young nowadays are too selfish to have imploding heads)