Esterbook Color Chart?

[JotterAddict62]

Greetings Esterbook people.

I am wondering if anyone has a reference color chart on the J series pens on the web somewhere? I just would like to know what color to tag these little estie invaders in my pen inventory. I have 5 J pens, 2 desk pens and 1 deluxe. I'll have to place them in a separate area so they will not breed with my Parkers.

I just would like to know what these colors are called.

I did find the nib chart on the Esterbrook.net site so I am learning

what the nibs are on the pens. By the way what is the most sought after Esterbrook nib?

 

Thanks all

Ken

 

P.S. I will not go out of my way to buy an Esterbrook, but if the price is right it will go home with me.

A nice little pen.

[Tylerjordan]

http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/profiles/j.htm

 

At the bottom of the page exists a list and small example of the extant colours in which Model Js may be found.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Tylerjordan

[pajaro]

I would like to see a color chart on the J series. It could be quite extensive.

 

You wouldn't want 51 and Estie crossbreeding. No need for endless controversies over "is that a plum streaker?"

[OcalaFlGuy]

I think a FULL Estie J color chart would be hard to do.

 

There were not only the known differences in shading between say the Greens and Reds but even more subtle color differences than that.

 

Also, IMO, different colors aged differently. Some of the Grays pick up Greenish tones to them.

 

It would be IMO, A LOT easier to do so if you keep the comparison over say the last half of the J's life when Estie really got the injection molding process down pat, the Streaker patterning disappeared, the lines there were thinned and became arrow straight and the patterning if Any was Mackeral Sky.

 

And, Oh Wow. A Plum Streaker! (Interestingly, some of the Blue Streakers and some Blue LJ's have a noticeable Indigo tone to them that looks Really Nice. And, just like Plums, it's Really Hard to get that to show in a pic. It's the same kind of "Eggplant Effect" as a real Indigo snake. They can either look Black or Blueish.)

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[JotterAddict62]

I'll have to find that book in my Mother's house about streaking in the early 1970's.

[Larry Barrieau]

How about some pictures of streakers and mackerel skies and others so we can know what we have?

Thanks

Larry

[OcalaFlGuy]

Larry,

 

Here are a couple so you get the general idea.

 

This Blue Streaker would rate about a 8.5 on my Streaker scale.

 

 

Here is a Greenie LJ I restored and had converted to use a BP refill for my Mother for Christmas. It has Some Mackeral Sky (as Richard Binder named it) patterning in the cap but it's not a very good example of that. It IS a Good Example IMO of as I put it, the Later J family pens where Estie had perfected (in my opinion) the injection molding process. Notice an almost LACK of patterning and what streaks they Do have are very thin and arrow straight as opposed to the wide, varying in width, Wavy Streaks in the Streaker. I hope this helps. I am not so into non-Streakers, my Mom's pen was a HAD to get in a short period of time and have a LOT of work done to it deal. When I find a better pic than I have of Mackeral Sky I'll post it.. You might go to Richardspens.com and search on Mackeral Sky and see what you get.

 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[EDIT] Here is the Mackerel Sky entry from Richard's Pen Glossary. It IS possible to have a mixture of Both Streaker and MS in the

same pen. I'd rate the Streakernicitiness of Richard's pen here at about a 2.5-3.

 

Edited July 16, 2014 by OcalaFlGuy

[Larry Barrieau]

Thanks Bruce.

[Brian Anderson]

No, no, no, no, no. Say it with me: Black, Blue, Grey, Red, Green, Copper. That's what Esterbrook called them. Richard's color chart is not correct, the use of Dubonnet, Fern, Foliage, Cobalt, etc., were NEVER used by Esterbrook to describe the J series pens. These adjectives were used to describe the earlier Model B, A, and H "Dollar" or $1.50 pens and their plastics. They can mean the difference between a $40 pen and a $150 pen.

 

This business of Mackeral Sky, Streaker, Snake in the Grass, Root Beer, etc. is really confusing for new collectors. Yes, variances exist, but Esterbrook just called them Green, blue, copper, etc. I also realize Icicle and dollar pen are collector based terms, but more accurately describe the model, and not a variance in the color. Nobody should be paying a premium for any of these "styles" of colors, and I'd hate to see someone being taken advantage because of it.

[JotterAddict62]

Thank you Brian Anderson for your input. Simple color names for the J pens.

 

Ken

P.S. Brian I'm always on the lookout for that 6ft Sheaffer your looking for.

[Brian Anderson]

This topic comes up often. People ask about the colors, Some folk talk about streaking, I come in with my conservative color views, all is right in the world. Next month we'll do this dance again. right Bruce? '-)

 

Let me know if you find a nice one Ken, I think I have a place for one.

[Hobiwan]

A BIG +1, what Brian said!! The designations "green I, Green II" also are Richard's creation, and reflect only color variations in the plastic stock the Company had at the time the pen was produced.

[Brian Anderson]

A BIG +1, what Brian said!! The designations "green I, Green II" also are Richard's creation, and reflect only color variations in the plastic stock the Company had at the time the pen was produced.

I have a couple of green pens, new old stock in the box, which have a dark green cap and lighter green barrel.

[Hobiwan]

I have a couple of green pens, new old stock in the box, which have a dark green cap and lighter green barrel.

 

I saw a lot of that in the field, too. I guess the barrels and caps were made on different assembly lines. Now and then you get lucky and find a perfect match of pen and cap. I have a nice grey SJ that matches all the way around, line for line, "mackerel sky" pattern for pattern. It probably depended on who was matching parts that day, and/or how awake he/she was .....

[Hobiwan]

I have a couple of green pens, new old stock in the box, which have a dark green cap and lighter green barrel.

 

Of course, I no sooner posted the above when the mail arrived, with the barrel I bought to match a cap I picked up a few months ago, just because the color was more spectacular than the usual. It's related to the colors discussion, so I'll show the pics. You'll not likely do this with a NOS in the box setup ...

 

The pen that arrived, with a dark, kinda "streaker" barrel and a light, "mackerel sky" sort of cap, which has a badly corroded clip ...

 

and the completed ensemble with the saved cap.

 

So, for about $30 all together, a nice "streaker green" bandless. Now, to replace the corroded lever and buff out the scratches in the barrel...

[FarmBoy]

Should this be in the frequently asked questions section?

 

Here goes.

 

There are seven standard colors.

 

Brian correctly named them but omitted my favorite, Skunk.

 

FarmBoy

[OcalaFlGuy]

This topic comes up often. People ask about the colors, Some folk talk about streaking, I come in with my conservative color views, all is right in the world. Next month we'll do this dance again. right Bruce? '-)

 

This business of Mackeral Sky, Streaker, Snake in the Grass, Root Beer, etc. is really confusing for new collectors. Yes, variances exist, but Esterbrook just called them Green, blue, copper, etc. I also realize Icicle and dollar pen are collector based terms, but more accurately describe the model, and not a variance in the color

 

(Please excuse me having cut and pasted the last three sentences above From another separate post in this same thread by Brian, it just makes it easier for me to respond to this way.)

 

First, I need to correct our Moderator on a minor point, It's SnakeSKIN, not snake in the grass.

 

Yes, it Does appear that once again, it's time for The Dance. At least we're getting better at it with all the practice, right Brian? We don't step all over each others shoes as much anymore and I don't trip over your boa as often.

 

Neither Richard (if I can be so presumptuous as to speak for him here) Nor I, are Trying to interject Streaker or Mackerel Sky into The Offical Estiebrook lexicon. I also think the average resident of Estieville, here long enough to get their last name painted on their mailbox down by the road, Knows That. If they don't, it doesn't take more than a few minutes of research on their part to affirm that fact.

 

Speaking of Facts. It simply Is One that Both these variances in patterning Do Consistently Occur with Esties DJs. Period. Now, each and every (Single) time patterning comes up in discussion what are we to do, come up with some new, nicely worded out Sentence or Two or Three to aptly Describe the two distinctly different patterns that Doesn't offend The Offical Estiebrook recordkeepers? Or, come up with an accurate and clear one or two word Descriptor of what these two patterns Look like. I've chosen the latter, frankly, I just am not going to take the time Every time patterning comes up in discussion for the former.

 

So far as the latter (cut and pasted) portion of the above goes, sorry, but I'm not buying it. First, we're told that because certain collectors have made the determination that to "contaminate" the Offical Estiebrook company lexicon is OK When it's been determined that special dispensation should be given because we're talking about a Descriptor for a Model of a pen. At the same time, it's nearly a Cardinal sin to make to me, almost the same contamination of lexicon (assuming this is that) to Describe a mere substantial patterning difference. Sorry, but I see so little difference in the two as to make the argument against the latter IMO weak and disingenuous. There should be no C-Worder crime being committed by simply trying to quickly and easily describe known substantial variations in our pens.

 

Nobody should be paying a premium for any of these "styles" of colors, and I'd hate to see someone being taken advantage because of it.

 

This is a tune that isn't played nearly as often as the one above. Since with all the practice, we've gotten so accomplished at dancing the Above dance, perhaps It Is time to add a few New steps to the Rumba.

 

It is my contention, and I think I can back it up with good evidence, that the Streakers are earlier production J family pens. That's not Terribly germane to my point here but relevant to it none the less. (Now we get Really into just My Opinion.) The I call them, run of the mill, Blah (basically not) very patterned, more Mackerel Sky Esties, bore the living hell out of me. That's MY opinion. I personally wouldn't take the time to find one on Fleabay or restore it if I did (At least to keep for myself). OTOH, I certainly WILL (and usually Have To) pay More for a nice Streaker to restore than I would if someone asks me to find them a nice Estie and tells me they couldn't care less What if Any patterning it had.

 

Now, here is what I feel is also A Fact. I am Not Alone in that willingness to pay more for a Streaker part. I Know how many Estie Fleabay listings I've looked at in the past 6 years and I Know what I've seen with my own 4 eyes, and yes, that IS what I've seen. Instance after instance, time after time. (I Will admit however that now and then a nice Streaker falls through the cracks and goes for a really nice price on Fleabay. It happened just a Sunday or two ago with a nice Copper one. On any given day on Fleabay, anything Can happen.)

 

Perhaps it May be due to the Streakers being earlier and thusly older but whatever the reason, IMO, they Are harder to find. Find Any and Every retail pen layout of Esties for sale and you'll prove that to yourself with your Own eyes. At least for me (and I think others know this too themselves,) Streakers Are harder to find and Cost More on Fleabay When there Are nice ones there. (Usually anyway) If I have to pay more for a nice Streaker to restore for someone, I think it's only fair for me to be able to pass that small extra expenditure on to the buyer. I'm sorry, but I don't see this as "taking advantage" of Anyone.

 

I don't restore many Esties for resale, frankly, because it's a PIA to find a nice Streaker For A Price than I can make Anything from in the end. But, the Streakers I do find and restore, don't usually even have a chance to Make it To the classifieds before they're sold. I don't mean that as any braggadocio towards what restore skills I May have, I mean that to substantiate that the Streaker patterning Is More desirable to Many Estie owners.

 

Since I Certainly realize this is probably going to be a new point of contention, I'll even go this far. If someone So vehemently disagrees with this, I'll offer them this opportunity to put their Estiebrook where their mouth is. Pick what we both agree to be a clean Blah, Run of the Mill (later, not very) patterned Estie DJ J and I'll pick what we (maybe ) can Both agree to be a viable Streaker DJ J example and we'll each restore our entry and enter them in a Highest Close Price contest on Fleabay. We can let the Estie consumer decide whether one is "worth more" than the other or not. If anyone feels froggy, the Fleabay lilypad is Right over There >>>

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

 

[Hobiwan]

So, what you're saying is that some color patterns sell for more because they look a bit more spectacular than others because of the type of plastic mix; and some people prefer that? And the names are just ways of describing that phenomena?

 

That also applies to to pens that have a consistent "mottled" pattern, notably the black/grey combination (it's either black with consistent grey mottling throughout, or grey with a heck of a lot of black). Also the solid J-pen colors made in England. They come up occasionally and get a lot of action.

 

Brian's comment meant to me just that the shorthand descriptions are just that, and nothing that the Company made up. And simply that the colors advertised post WWII were the six basics without the fancy titles. And all the nicknames are ours (kinda like Parker people naming the "Mustard '51").

 

I think he just wanted to make that clear.

[estie1948]

I agree that probably most people find the "streaker" Esterbrooks more attractive. Even my wife, who is left handed and refuses to use a fountain pen but diligently searches for them on my behalf, is always drawn to the "prettier" fountain pen. It seems reasonable to me to believe that if a potential buyer finds a certain pen more attractive, then that buyer may very well be willing to pay a higher price to secure the pen. Since eBay is definitely a "whatever the market will bear" creation, then this matter of appearance would seem to make the "streaker" Esterbrooks more valuable than a non-"streaker" Esterbrook.

 

Another thing that might make the "streaker" pens more valuable to some pen buyers is the aspect that they were an accident of the production process and not planned by the producer. They are freaks, if you will, rather the designed and desired result of the production. Bruce states that the "streakers" cease to be produced once Esterbrook perfected its production process. Therefore, there are probably fewer available to buy and thus rarer than their fellow Esterbrook pens. This "rareness" aspect would also seem to make the "streaker" pen more valuable to certain buyers.

 

However, Esterbrook sold the "streaker" pens at the same price as the non-"streaker" pens. I don't think anyone should pay more for a "streaker" pen merely because of its "streakiness". The line from some old song seems to apply to this value question and was, in my opinion, foremost in the minds of some other pen manufacturers: "The more you pay, the more it's worth."

 

-David.

Edited July 17, 2014 by estie1948

[OcalaFlGuy]

1. So, what you're saying is that some color patterns sell for more because they look a bit more spectacular than others because of the type of plastic mix; and some people prefer that? And the names are just ways of describing that phenomena?

 

2. Brian's comment meant to me just that the shorthand descriptions are just that, and nothing that the Company made up. And simply that the colors advertised post WWII were the six basics without the fancy titles. And all the nicknames are ours (kinda like Parker people naming the "Mustard '51"). I think he just wanted to make that clear.

 

1. Perzactly my good man!

 

2. And I just wanted to make clear that if you are going to bristle at Root Beer, Streaker and Mackerel Sky, then you should bristle equally for exactly the same reasons for Icicle and Dollar pen. While we're there, who the heck even came up with Icicle, WTH? While I can't say that I can come up with a better name but as a pure Descriptor goes, IMO, that's a pretty poor one. What? Because it Sounds cool? At least Root Beer, Streaker, Copper and Mackerel Sky give these poor nOOb collectors who are so unlearned (Not my opinion) a flat out strong Visual Clue what that Descriptor Means

 

PS Paul. I think someone would have to be blind as a bat to Not agree your second Streaker Dollar pen is the more attractive pen of the two.

 

It seems reasonable to me to believe that if a potential buyer finds a certain pen more attractive, then that buyer may very well be willing to pay a higher price to secure the pen. Since eBay is definitely a "whatever the market will bear" creation, then this matter of appearance would seem to make the "streaker" Esterbrooks more valuable than a non-"streaker" Esterbrook.

 

Another thing that might make the "streaker" pens more valuable to some pen buyers is the aspect that they were an accident of the production process and not planned by the producer. They are freaks, if you will, rather the designed and desired result of the production. Bruce states that the "streakers" cease to be produced once Esterbrook perfected its production process. Therefore, there are probably fewer available to buy and thus rarer than their fellow Esterbrook pens. This "rareness" aspect would also seem to make the "streaker" pen more valuable to certain buyers.

 

-David.

 

David, my problems lie when a blanket statement is made of (paraphrasing) If someone sells you a Streaker (at say a fixed price) for any more money than a blah patterned one, then they are taking advantage of you. If hypothetically speaking, someone thinks the Streaker idea is rubbish, and therefore won't go out of their way to find them and therefore doesn't sell them, that makes that blanket statement maybe Much More sensical to Them And possibly self-serving.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl