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Need Help Identifying A Pen (Osmia)

osmia 14k supra fine 585 982 982 f faber castell german

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#1 Tinker

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 21:47

Hello!

 

I came by a fountain pen today and haven't been able to identify it. I would be very interested to know about any information concerning this pen. I was able to find a short history of the company itself but not much about the pens they produced.

 

I'm definitely not an expert on fountain pens (I've been researching them for a few weeks now), but I'd be very interested to know more!

 

I'm wondering how old this pen might be, does it have any historical value, is it worth hanging onto?

 

The pen seems to work - I've been cleaning it for the better part of the day (carefully, taking precautions and using only water)

 

 

 

Breather hole in the cap is located opposite of the clip

 

Nib engraving:

 

OSMIA

SUPRA

14K

585

 

Body engraving:

 

982

F

 

(Tried to upload pictures of all details)

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#2 Scribblesoften

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 21:58

The 585 on the nib is a gold content measure. 14C/K is 58.5% gold. Your pen is a model is a 982 and the pen was originally equipped with a fine width nib. Osmias are nice well made pens. Other Osmia models that look similar to your pen are from the 1950's. I would expect your pen to be of similar vintage. I am not an expert but I believe your pen may be made of celluloid. I hope it is working well for you and you enjoy it.

#3 Tinker

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 22:02

Thank you very much!

 

I'm looking forward to testing it as soon as it has dried properly, the rotating piston works very smoothly and the tines seem nice and flexible.



#4 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 20:36

History erased. When I tried to put in the picture of a few of mine. 20 minutes down the drain. Now missing Degussa & Osmia nib...not important right now.

.

 

Very nice pen you have there.

Supra means it is a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nib....Just the diamond with a number in it or a diamond with out the Supra means it's a semi-flex....in either case, Supra or number in a diamond on the nib, is a grand nib. The gold nib is as good as the steel nib, both grand.

Use a light hand with your nib.....it is NOT a "FLEX" nib.

 

Other companies go oblique  OBB....Osmia/Boehler go BBL -left foot or BBR - right foot. OB=BL or BL, ML or FL. That way it's easier to know what foot the nib is on the pen.

I do like vintage '50-65 German Obliques....that give you grand line variation.

Depending totally on luck of the draw I have obliques with 15 & 30 degree grinds from OBB, OB, OM, & OF.

Two of the Osmia pens have BBL in both 15 & 30 degree grinds.

Do not waste your money on modern after '65 obliques unless it is a pre'76 MB. Modern obliques have little to no line variation.

 

Modern nibs are in many case semi-nail now...not 'true' springy regular flex. They do not spread their tines 3 X...only 2 X like a semi-nail P-75's nib.

I'll call them pre'97 or semi-vintage...those of the 30-40-50-65 in German I'll refer to as vintage.

(You do need to say what other pens you have so I can perhaps with help of others point to a 'true' regular flex nib of yours.)

 

If you mash a 'true' regular flex nib, the tines will spread 3X a light down stroke.

A Semi-flex will do the same with half of that effort. A Supra or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex requires only 1/4th that effort to spread it's tines 3 X a light down stroke.

It is important to remember, those three flex sets ONLY spread their tines 3 X a light down stroke.

 

They are not "Flex" nibs that spread their tines 4-5-6 or & X a light down stroke. If you push your very fine Supra nib more than that 3X, you will spring and ruin your nib.

 

It might be draggy, from 'iridium' rust/micro-corrosion. From sitting around for 60 years. A good quality brown paper bag will bring the nib up to good and smooth, with out damage.

In three to four 15 second sets only (max of 6), of writing normal, with turning the nib all the time while doing circles left and right, squiggles up and down, left and right, your nib will be smoothed to a nice non drag good and smooth condition.

 

You are not grinding a nib; like it's too easy to do with micro-mesh. You can use a mirror with a bit of water on it too. Either is the the least abrasive way to smooth the nib up to good enough.

You Do Not need butter smooth. That is a fallacy. You have a nib with good easy flex....butter smooth will often make the nib fatter from over grinding.

 

The problem with micro mesh and the hunt for 'butter smooth' is it's too smooth for slick paper, it is very easy to grind away at a nib...ruin the tips geometry...and yours is flat on the bottom with very little tipping as designed.***

You need good experience with micro mesh to know how Little you need to do....especially with your flat bottomed stubbish nib.

Many a person here has ruined a grand nib by grinding at it with micro-mesh with out knowing what they are doing.

 

I was very glad I used the brown paper bag, to learn what I was doing....in I bought lots of old vintage pens sat in the drawer a generation with dried old ink in them. I can use micro-mesh, but have lots of experience with a good quality brown paper bag.

 

***As a 'noobi' when I got my first '50's German pens I thought some idiot 'shade tree' mechanic had take a file or a stone to the nibs to make stubbs. I was wrong. Many of the German pens of that era were flat tipped, with some flex, that made the line stubbish....in it's own way not like a nail stub.

It's way too easy to grind too much off with micro-mesh.

You have a very nice pen. I want you to enjooy it the rest of your life.

 

There are 3 jewel caps, one like yours, one thicker...I'll see if I have a picture. One with the Osmia Diamond on it. 4 clips, a generic one, yours, and two similar ones; one with Osmia on it, one not.

 

Very fine pen you have. If it don't have Faber-Castell on it then it is 1951 and before.

If it does 1951-52 max because the Faber-Castell is not under the Osmia on the barrel.

 

The name Osmia came from buying  up the patent of a German Heidelberg University patent of an Osmium/iridium compound that was in the '20s was the best tipping in the world.

Osmia was always poor because all they made was fountain pens, Faber-Castell the maker of second class pens only started buying in in 1936. 1938 Because of Faber-Castel the brothers split.

 

After the war still needing a first class pen Faber Castell bought up Osmia in 1951....they started adding their name to the pen....then did away with the Osmia Diamond jewel, the Osmia clip, Osmia on the pen body, Osmia on the nib, leaving only the Osmia diamond for a semi-flex. By '57-58 Osmia was gone. Why buy up a top pen and think folks are so stupid as not to remember all Faber Castell ever made was second tier pens?

540 @ '52...they had moved the Faber Castell from the far side of the barrel to under Osmia.

 

1b88524b-11ac-4e56-b929-781d80a84e99_zps

 

Boehler Gold mdl 54 tortoise @ 1938. Bohler was the brother that split off. That has one of the generic clips I was talking about.

B05qqKwB2kKGrHqMOKiEERGChR8EBMcV7mpcw_12

 

Black hard rubber chased Boehler. @ 1938-9 same model number 53 as an Osmia different jewel and clip.

B0ijpCWkKGrHqQOKioEWJJF95bBMvLLjW0w_3.jp

 

I have a couple of more Osmia pens, a BHRC 76 , BHRC war 74, plain 66, 63, 62, a 773 and 883...perhaps another one.

For this I'm putting the '38-9 Boehler pens in the same category as the Osmia, in they had the same model numbers.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 24 June 2014 - 21:07.

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#5 Kaweco

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 16:09

...................

Supra means it is a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nib....Just the diamond with a number in it or a diamond with out the Supra means it's a semi-flex....in either case, Supra or number in a diamond on the nib, is a grand nib.

........................

To tell the truth: "Supra" means the filling technique. Originally the names like "Supra", "Normal" or "Minor" came from Parker during the Parker- Osmia- Connection. Later the names "Supra- Lux" or "Compressor" came on display. When Osmia had been sold out to Faber they adopted the trade marks. They had to do some court cases because 2 or 3 competitors demanded to use the name "Supra" too. The piston filling method had been worked out as the most safe and most wanted ink filling in Germany and within a few years nearly all fountain pens had been produced with piston filling. The several sub- trade marks with their best reputation remained and until now it is not sure which type corrospondes with its name.There was never any conjunction of the name to the flexibility of nibs, I do not know of one single fountainpen maker, who makes such an imprint. And it would not make any sense to put an imprint "Supra" to the barrel, when several nib types are interchangable.

Kind Regards

Thomas



#6 ehemem

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 23:24

To tell the truth: "Supra" means the filling technique. Originally the names like "Supra", "Normal" or "Minor" came from Parker during the Parker- Osmia- Connection. Later the names "Supra- Lux" or "Compressor" came on display. When Osmia had been sold out to Faber they adopted the trade marks. They had to do some court cases because 2 or 3 competitors demanded to use the name "Supra" too. The piston filling method had been worked out as the most safe and most wanted ink filling in Germany and within a few years nearly all fountain pens had been produced with piston filling. The several sub- trade marks with their best reputation remained and until now it is not sure which type corrospondes with its name.There was never any conjunction of the name to the flexibility of nibs, I do not know of one single fountainpen maker, who makes such an imprint. And it would not make any sense to put an imprint "Supra" to the barrel, when several nib types are interchangable.

Kind Regards

Thomas

 

Thank you, Thomas!



#7 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 12:17

All I know is those with just a diamond with a number in it that I have are semi-flex be that steel or gold.

All my Supra nibs, gold or steel are a flex stage lower what I call 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex.

 

I do have a pre'Faber Castell Osmia 74 war model with a Supra nib and 62 ML with a steel nib with the diamond..

The other 6 or so are various Osmia-Faber-Castell I have, that show how Faber-Castell erased more and more of Osmia from the first class pen they bought. :doh:

I don't buy the late Faber Castell pens with no Osmia on it..ie only the Osmia on the nib or just the diamond..

Faber Castell had made only second tier pens, until they finished buying up Osmia in 1951.

 

Kaweco/Thomas is a scholar of German fountain pens. I've learned much from him, when we meet at the flea market. Just learned more.


Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#8 whych

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:08

You can soak the whole pen in water and work the piston to clean out both ends of the piston. It is amazing how much ink gets on the back end of the piston after 50 - 60 years or so.

The nib may or may not unscrew, but don't force it and only try after lots of soaking.



#9 betweenthelens

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:44

Tinker, very nice pen, and Bo Bo, I love that Boehler BCHR! Exquisite!


Edited by betweenthelens, 25 July 2014 - 12:44.


#10 majorworks

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 14:55

Wow, sweet looking pen! Color me jealous!

 

Congratulations, and I hope you enjoy it for many years. 


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: osmia, 14k, supra, fine, 585, 982, 982 f, faber castell, german