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#31 rollerboy

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 22:44

I always figure it's some combination of being too lazy to deal with shipping cost as a variable (which having a large domestic market they can get away with) and 'murikanism.  In their mind's eye, a globe always has the USA front and center, the individual states lovingly outlined.  Everything else is unlabelled blank grey ... especially the hat.



#32 dcroe05

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 22:59

I always figure it's some combination of being too lazy to deal with shipping cost as a variable (which having a large domestic market they can get away with) and 'murikanism.  In their mind's eye, a globe always has the USA front and center, the individual states lovingly outlined.  Everything else is unlabelled blank grey ... especially the hat.

 

As a resident of the US, here's how I read your comment:

 

"I always figure they're either too lazy to do a simple math problem, or too self centered to care about anything outside their borders."

 

There have been several rational reasons presented in this thread, so please don't paint us all with the same broad--and rather insulting--brush.



#33 tringle

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 23:15

Fortunately I have not had an issue with deliveries outside of the USA, I have shipped to several countries USPS, and FedEx, not used UPS.  No issues, and I will keep sacrificing to the Postal Gods as time goes on.  

 

European buyers are at a great advantage, especially with the price of the Euro or GBP being so much higher than the US $, buy while you can with added insurance, you are usually getting a great deal, and its worth the added cost. Then again countries not using the Euro, tend to be in the same dollar to donut range, but I have also found their postal fees and services are not as costly as USPS.  

 

Good topic whoever started.

 

I have to admit, I had to ask another member what CONUS stood for and also what BRO stood for when I first signed on with FPN  :wallbash:

 

 

Oooh on another note if I am perusing around and looking at pens, ink etc, on wherever I also look at the shipping costs...Sometimes the pen is worth it and sometimes I let it go....saddens me.  I would guess its more a cost factor than laziness, or interaction with non-US buyers.   :D


Edited by tringle, 10 June 2014 - 23:28.


#34 sargetalon

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 23:17

 

As a resident of the US, here's how I read your comment:

 

"I always figure they're either too lazy to do a simple math problem, or too self centered to care about anything outside their borders."

 

There have been several rational reasons presented in this thread, so please don't paint us all with the same broad--and rather insulting--brush.

 

+1


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#35 rollerboy

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 23:22

 

There have been several rational reasons presented in this thread, so please don't paint us all with the same broad--and rather insulting--brush.

 

I think you read my use of the word "lazy" more harshly than I intended.  I apologize.  Most of the discussion seems to be around some added complexity in cost and insurance issues that people choose not to deal with,  because they don't have to, because they have a large domestic market.  



#36 luminesce

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 00:20

Those of you outside the US, let me pose a question - what percentage above a pen's selling price are you willing to pay for paypal required shipping/tracking?

 

The pens I buy are quite cheap, so I'm only prepared to go for first class intl, say a total cost of ~$30 + ~$10pp. That's $33% of pen cost which is good for postage to NZ. Often the postal costs are ~50% of purchase price.

Through paypal I often pay via the friends/family option, which means I pay the paypal charge and I accept all the risk of:

  • a pen not as described,
  • postage woes.

I'm comfortable with that for the kinds of pens I'm buying. And so far, so good.


Edited by luminesce, 11 June 2014 - 01:50.

questions questions, too many questions...


#37 onepuff

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 00:23

I'm interested that a number of people have stated that sellers in the US are more confident of getting a domestic sale as the USA is a larger country. The USA has a population of just over 300 million while the EU has a population of just over 500 million. Is there really so much less interest in fountain pens and other writing instruments per head of population in the EU than the USA? I understand that there are other barriers such as inflated shipping costs and customs documents to fill out which the seller may feel would discourage a sale or cause them personal inconvenience but I've shipped items all over the world using couriers from the UK and have found it relatively easy to do and very reliable. There are certain countries I'd be wary of shipping to but the EU as a whole is painless.



#38 brgmarketing

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 00:23

A trip to the post office, parking, filling out the forms and then mailing it off before I am able to get the final information to the buyer and then wait to have my Paypal account credited - minus the PayPal fee %. Or maybe I make the trip first, weigh everything and then post the information, except what country is it going to? And what is the fee along with the insurances etc.

 

Even if the person says I am not responsible if it is not received, I fee a responsibility even if it just a moral one. Oh yes, one more thing...

 

If it's a $500.00 pen, maybe I could imagine doing all that work. For a $50.00 or $100.00 pen I'm spending 1-2 hours of my time packaging, and shipping.

 

I just ordered my first pen from a country other than the U.S., Canada or India and I am waiting for it's arrival. The pens I received from Canada, were delivered to my home while the pens from India required a trip to the post office and a wait while the package was retrieved so that I could sign for it.

 

Maybe, if I get to the place where I am selling and shipping more expensive pens, I would consider a UPS/DHL/ other international shipper with insurance/accountability. Until then, it's not really something I have the desire or time to do.


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#39 Cryptos

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 00:25

There are some odd anomalies in posting overseas, with the same items costing different prices even though using the same carrier options and same destinations. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. In my defence I am terribly stupid so maybe it all makes perfect sense and I just can't see it.


Edited by Cryptos, 11 June 2014 - 00:42.

 

 

 


#40 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 00:35

I don't think paypal will listen to a claim that the buyer accepted the risk. If the buyer makes an item not received claim against you, and you don't have tracking with delivery confirmation, you will lose.

 

Do you have any back up for this?

 

I do not believe it is a true statement. 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#41 Csrae

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:47

I'm interested that a number of people have stated that sellers in the US are more confident of getting a domestic sale as the USA is a larger country. The USA has a population of just over 300 million while the EU has a population of just over 500 million. Is there really so much less interest in fountain pens and other writing instruments per head of population in the EU than the USA? I understand that there are other barriers such as inflated shipping costs and customs documents to fill out which the seller may feel would discourage a sale or cause them personal inconvenience but I've shipped items all over the world using couriers from the UK and have found it relatively easy to do and very reliable. There are certain countries I'd be wary of shipping to but the EU as a whole is painless.

 

I think it's just that many users on FPN are located in the US and expect that members will be located nearby too. Unless the pen is uncommon many people are happy to be trading between states even though they can expand their market if they include EU too. I admit FP collecting is seen as a bit of a novelty here in the US. Also, Paypal requires sellers to use Priority International which usually means +$24 on even the smallest packages.

 

I usually allow international sales but I like to remind buyers that it'll be First Class Mail which is untracked. I have bought items from different countries and I'm aware of the large range of shipping times. 


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#42 orfew

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:24

Those of you outside the US, let me pose a question - what percentage above a pen's selling price are you willing to pay for paypal required shipping/tracking?

Since I only collect Montblanc pens and these tend to be expensive I do not mind paying for insurance and tracking. I might feel differently if I collected less expensive pens. To answer your question more directly, I would be willing to pay up to 20% of the purchase price for insurance and tracking. (Please keep in mind that the range of cost for a typical purchase is between 250 to 500 USD.)

 

It does bother me when I see CONUS only ads because this represents another missed opportunity to add a piece to my collection. I can think of at least 10 instances in the last several months where I would have bought the item and gladly paid for shipping, insurance, and tracking. As soon as I see CONUS only I stop reading the ad and I move on to the next opportunity. I would never contact someone who posted CONUS only and ask them to ship to me. If the seller does not want to sell to me then I go elsewhere.


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#43 de_pen_dent

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:37

I have a US shipping address, mainly b/c for the most part, it is a lot cheaper to buy pens and have them shipped over together, rather than one at a time.    

 

But I do wonder about costs.   I buy pens from Teri @ Peyton Street Pens on Ebay and through her website, and manage to get them at a really low shipping rate of $10 or so.  And other vendors charge >$40 as their cheapest option.   Wassupwiddat?


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#44 Auspice

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:04

I have a US shipping address, mainly b/c for the most part, it is a lot cheaper to buy pens and have them shipped over together, rather than one at a time.    

 

But I do wonder about costs.   I buy pens from Teri @ Peyton Street Pens on Ebay and through her website, and manage to get them at a really low shipping rate of $10 or so.  And other vendors charge >$40 as their cheapest option.   Wassupwiddat?

 

Sometimes people are able to work out a deal/arrangement with the shipper they use. Or ship through their place of work, etc..



#45 Chrissy

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 06:15

 

Do you have any back up for this?

 

I do not believe it is a true statement. 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

PayPal in the UK will listen to claims that an item has been dispatched even when there is no tracking number. We have 'confirmation of posting' certificates that are issued at Post Offices.

 

However, I have never known PayPal listen to a claim that a buyer accepted the risk. They don't say they will in their T's & C's


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#46 xwingrox

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:57

I usually ship CONUS only because of USPS's $6 flat rate small priority box. I can price the shipping into my asking price and buyers won't really mind. Now, if I were to include international shipping, say to the UK, buyers would totally notice the additional $50! 


Edited by xwingrox, 11 June 2014 - 09:58.


#47 LBpens

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 10:09

 

Do you have any back up for this?

 

I do not believe it is a true statement. 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

I have personal experience plus you can go read paypal's terms. Or, if you would care to run an experiment, sell me a pen and I'll pay with paypal. I'll tell you in an email that I will accept the postal risk. Send it without tracking, and I'll file an item not received claim. Then you can see for yourself what happens. I would say that anyone who hoped this thread would persuade more sellers to be more open-minded about selling outside the US, must be very disappointed because it has probably done the opposite.


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#48 Wolverine1

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 12:42

I sold a expensive pen to a person in the UK, and I filled the US Customs form and did all the necessary paperwork and mailed it off. The buyer claimed that he never recieved the pen, and he complained to Paypal.  Despite my having the reciepts, despite having photographs, I was denied payment, and I have lost my pen.  Paypal is of no help despite my showing them pictures posted by the buyer showing off his "purchase" on his Facebook page. I therefore absolutely refuse to sell anything except in the USA, where I know scam artists can be, and are prosecuted. It was an expensive learning experience, worth $700.00.



#49 GTOZack

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:06

yeah it costs a fully equipped pen case books papers and etc and pen.  it cost me almost 80 USD in postage 


'The Yo-Yo maneuver is very difficult to explain. It was first perfected by the well-known Chinese fighter pilot Yo-Yo Noritake. He also found it difficult to explain, being quite devoid of English.

So we left it at that. He showed us the maneuver after a sort.  B*****d stole my kill.'

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#50 GTOZack

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:07

I sold a expensive pen to a person in the UK, and I filled the US Customs form and did all the necessary paperwork and mailed it off. The buyer claimed that he never recieved the pen, and he complained to Paypal.  Despite my having the reciepts, despite having photographs, I was denied payment, and I have lost my pen.  Paypal is of no help despite my showing them pictures posted by the buyer showing off his "purchase" on his Facebook page. I therefore absolutely refuse to sell anything except in the USA, where I know scam artists can be, and are prosecuted. It was an expensive learning experience, worth $700.00.

Contact FBI.  


'The Yo-Yo maneuver is very difficult to explain. It was first perfected by the well-known Chinese fighter pilot Yo-Yo Noritake. He also found it difficult to explain, being quite devoid of English.

So we left it at that. He showed us the maneuver after a sort.  B*****d stole my kill.'

                                                                                                        -Squadron Leader K. G. Holland, RAF. WWII China.


#51 LBpens

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:10

Wolverine, thanks for that story. The bottom line is, selling domestically is a matter of trust and internationally is much more so. I'll sell a pen to anyone in the US or internationally without expensive tracking and take paypal. BUT I require that the paypal not be for goods or services but rather as money sent to family or friends. That cancels out the paypal role in what was sent and received.

 

By the way, another way paypal leans entirely to the buyer is with returns. Scammers have realized that they can buy an item, then return one similar but damaged for a refund. Paypal will not hear what the seller has to say. If the original buyer has the shipping tracking documents, they will refund the money.

 

I trust there are no scammers here and that I have not given anyone any ideas. :)


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#52 strictlyobiter

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:17

Best bet OP is to avoid the CONUS classifieds. I've bought quite a few pens from US sellers via the classifieds with no hiccups. If the seller isn't going to make a big deal of it in the ad, the transaction is likely to be just as easy.

#53 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:49

I sold a expensive pen to a person in the UK, and I filled the US Customs form and did all the necessary paperwork and mailed it off. The buyer claimed that he never recieved the pen, and he complained to Paypal.  Despite my having the reciepts, despite having photographs, I was denied payment, and I have lost my pen.  Paypal is of no help despite my showing them pictures posted by the buyer showing off his "purchase" on his Facebook page. I therefore absolutely refuse to sell anything except in the USA, where I know scam artists can be, and are prosecuted. It was an expensive learning experience, worth $700.00.

 

 

Hi, I thought I'd write up something on pen shipping as I have a lot of experience. It's about the end of the year and I shipped about 2,200 pens this year. I hope this will be useful as I see a lot of questions about shipping on the various pen forums. 

 

You as the shipper are ALWAYS responsible for an item until it is in the hands of the buyer. So even if the other party says they will take responsibility, legally you still are responsible until they get it. If they put in a claim with a payment service, you will lose unless you can PROVE they got it. 
 

So, I hope this is useful info and welcome your experiences, ideas and feedback. Cheers, Bob 

 

 

So there's MY back up from someone who has sold and delivered more pens (several times over) than Everyone who's posted to this thread COMBINED. 

Choose to disbelieve if you wish. You'll Still be wrong.

 

It's asininely simple.

 

I pay you money. I either get what I bought from you or Paypal gives me your money back. (Unless you can show it as delivered. Maybe.)

 

Period. 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#54 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 14:43

Oh and PS, "DELIVERED" doesn't (necessarily) mean Jack.

 

Delivered, to the PO, simply Does Not *Necessarily* Mean to the CORRECT address.

 

A book from an Amazon vendor for my Dad, sent to me, was lost this past Christmas. I  think it was UPS that showed it DELIVERED.  I told them, well, maybe, but it damn sure wasn't delivered To Me.  UPS showed the item as left at a front door.  Problem is, my mail goes to a business attended to during normal business hours.  There was No Locked Door there at the time they said the book was delivered.

 

This was about a month after Christmas. (Yes, I love deadlines. I love the roar they make as they go zooming by.)  I told them, Ok, no problem, I'll wait 5 days for you to figure out where it is. Sent them an email on day 5, (Amazon and the vendor) Take your pick, either send out another book or give me my money back.

 

They sent out another book.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#55 LBpens

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 14:49

Bruce, You seem to have changed your position. Bob is backing up what I said, is he not?

 

LBpens, on 10 Jun 2014 - 10:11, said:snapback.png

I don't think paypal will listen to a claim that the buyer accepted the risk. If the buyer makes an item not received claim against you, and you don't have tracking with delivery confirmation, you will lose.

 

Do you have any back up for this?

 

I do not believe it is a true statement. 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl


Save the Wahls!

#56 terim

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 15:06

Sometimes people are able to work out a deal/arrangement with the shipper they use. Or ship through their place of work, etc..


My actual cost for shipping one pen in a small box to addresses outside the United States is $8.88 plus around $2 for insurance, so a charge of $9 or $10 seems only fair since US customers get free shipping. This is the least expensive method and takes 2-3 weeks, but it's not trackable. Most customers opt for this method. Sellers charging more are probably using Priority Mail or Express.

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#57 terim

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 15:17

Bruce, You seem to have changed your position. Bob is backing up what I said, is he not?
 
LBpens, on 10 Jun 2014 - 10:11, said:snapback.png

 
Do you have any back up for this?
 
I do not believe it is a true statement. 
 
Bruce in Ocala, Fl


I have not put this to the test very often, but in my experience PayPal always sides with the buyer. The only binding component is the integrity of both buyer and seller to honor their agreement as to assignment of risk. I was working with a buyer in California who asked me to ship to China at a lower declared value and because we'd done some business I agreed to do so. When the package did not arrive, despite our agreement the customer filed a paypal claim and I lost well over $1000.

Lesson learned. That buyer can find another source of Sheaffer new old stock, because I won't sell to him again. No integrity, no business.

Teri
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Visit the Peyton Street Pens web site.

Sign-up for our newsletter. We only send it out a few times a year, and there's usually a coupon that you can use to save a few dollars on your next order.

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#58 mtnbiker62

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 15:35

I sold a expensive pen to a person in the UK, and I filled the US Customs form and did all the necessary paperwork and mailed it off. The buyer claimed that he never recieved the pen, and he complained to Paypal.  Despite my having the reciepts, despite having photographs, I was denied payment, and I have lost my pen.  Paypal is of no help despite my showing them pictures posted by the buyer showing off his "purchase" on his Facebook page. I therefore absolutely refuse to sell anything except in the USA, where I know scam artists can be, and are prosecuted. It was an expensive learning experience, worth $700.00.

 

Exactly!



#59 strictlyobiter

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 15:38

My actual cost for shipping one pen in a small box to addresses outside the United States is $8.88 plus around $2 for insurance, so a charge of $9 or $10 seems only fair since US customers get free shipping. This is the least expensive method and takes 2-3 weeks, but it's not trackable. Most customers opt for this method. Sellers charging more are probably using Priority Mail or Express.

Teri


Us loyal PSP international customers appreciate this Teri! :)

#60 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 15:42

Bruce, You seem to have changed your position. Bob is backing up what I said, is he not?

 

LBpens, on 10 Jun 2014 - 10:11, said:snapback.png

 

Do you have any back up for this?

 

I do not believe it is a true statement. 

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

No I haven't changed anything.  I don't care enough about the topic to go back through to figure out what you're talking about.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl







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