Buyer Beware -- Lamy Safari On Ebay

[printhardcopy]

http://i62.tinypic.com/j9vyut.jpg

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/x21bg3.jpg

 

http://i58.tinypic.com/2vjr9e8.jpg

 

http://i59.tinypic.com/14sjvi9.jpg

 

Etching of the "LAMY" also deep and properly for real lamy safari.

[Drone]

Where is Lamy on this? Has anyone pointed them to this thread (e.g., OP - by now)? What is their answer? No answer from Lamy is even more telling than Lamy providing a responsible answer and/or a commitment to resolve this and report back to their faithful buying community. Safari's are probably Lamy's bread and butter product given the decades of reliable production and sales - not to mention likely high margins.

[melissa59]

I notified Lamy today.

I notified eBay two or three days ago. eBay obvious does not care.

[disillusion]

Hi everyone, I can't believe I didn't notice this thread before! I hope I am not too late but I'll chime in.

If anyone is doubting printhardcopy's word because he is an eBay seller himself, then let me confirm that there are fake Lamy Safaris coming from China. I am an end user not affiliated with Lamy or any sellers.

I have first noticed reports of fakes on a Chinese fountain pen discussion board in March. (Trust the Chinese users to notice first because they are the first to be scammed!) The seller in question went out of stock within a week and soon removed the listings, so I brushed it aside and forgot about it. They only had the blue and glossy black offered in limited numbers anyway.

Well now they are back, with all the regular Safari colours plus Apple Green and Aquamarine. Here is a screenshot of a seller offering 26RMB(= 4.16USD) Lamy Safaris on Alibaba, the wholesale marketplace and domestic version of Aliexpress.

And here is the thread where I read about fake Lamy Safaris first. It is in Chinese but there are lots of photos comparing the real and counterfeit version, so I hope you'll find it useful. The major differences seems to be that the counterfeit ones had a narrower cross at the top; the bodies when exchanged with a real one screws in but does not line up; the converter is missing a ring below the piston; and the engraving at the end of the barrels are of a poorer quality. Also if you got an Apple Green or Aquamarine with a black top, it is fake.

I will keep an eye on this Alibaba seller and add an update here if they are offering new colours. I regret that I had not warned people earlier, but late is better than never. Be very careful when you buy Safaris on eBay!

To the OP, I hope you get your money back!

[Osmaroid]

I too only just saw this string and am dismayed that another pen is being counterfeited. This is especially bad for the manufacturer when people don't believe that a low cost pen would be counterfeited, as the fakes are invariably inferior to the genuine item and then start to tarnish its reputation.

 

I see a comment in an earlier post that "why would any seller go to the trouble of fabricating fake Safaris when the relatively cheap price of these pens hardly seems to justify the effort?". I would point out that one heavily counterfeited pen is one that retails in the US for about $3 to $5 - the Hero 616! Anything is worth counterfeiting if enough of them are sold, it would appear.

 

This only goes to show that "buyer beware" applies unless buying from a known and trusted dealer. I am not related to the pen business other than as a buyer who frequently uses EBay and have been bitten in the past (when I first started collecting) by a counterfeit Parker Sonnet and a couple of counterfeit Hero 616 10 packs. I have also knowingly bought 2 very low cost Montblanc counterfeits just to see how well they were made (very poorly, in this case, and nothing like the real thing as, for one thing, they were converter fillers - more like the quartz "Rolexes" also on EBay!

 

As a parting shot, discussions about these various counterfeits come up in various postings on various sites (the Sonnet counterfeits are even mentioned on Wikipedia!), and it makes me wonder whether we should somehow put together a listing of counterfeits that have been found together with warning signs to look for? This would not include "look-alikes", just fakes that are being sold as the genuine item. Associated sellers would not necessarily be of much use as they vary all the time, but awareness of the problem would be.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Osmaroid

[pen2paper]

important thread, with visual examples to compare.

equally important to be extremely cautious.

FPN will let a study of this issue fly, but only if it stays very on track, to educate buyers/collectors to discern Lamy, from Non-Lamy.

 

Sad day to find that any collector finds they've wasted money, and time on fakery, but particularly discouraging to newly interested ones.

Thanks for all of your photos.

 

Perhaps once these photo examples are completed, they can be added to update page of historical colors, changes, LE's, and autopsy of interiors.

[GUNGA GALUNGA]

Black X is normal

[Nonsensical]

Black X is normal

Only for the newer limited edition and regular edition Safaris. The Apple Green (and Aquamarine) didn't have the black cross top.

[Algester]

so for the old LE Safaris they made the finnial the same huh... so should this thread be archived for future reference? should any newbie ever decide getting some Lamy pens online speaking of which I wish they will make the Terracotta back... :X

Edited June 4, 2014 by Algester

[printhardcopy]

Most important see the "Germany" Engraving and "Lamy" Engraving.

 

Yesterday i try to take all my back of my lamy safari.

 

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/billovee/Lamy/WhiteSafari3_zps10e6ccd1.jpg

 

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/billovee/Lamy/MattSafari3_zps07148207.jpg

 

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/billovee/Lamy/BlueSafari3_zpsd2d7864c.jpg

 

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/billovee/Lamy/ShinyBlackSafari3_zps3a52a894.jpg

 

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/billovee/Lamy/Vista3_zps29bbed86.jpg

 

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd307/billovee/Lamy/yellowsafari3_zps8fd0c56f.jpg

 

I think it is quite clear cut now.

[Shaporama]

Wow, was I wrong.

 

I could not conceive of a rationale for a counterfeiter to want to copy a relatively inexpensive pen. But of course when your market is as large as China what is forfeited on margins is regained thru sheer volume. Makes sense now. This is one more reason to buy your pens only from a reputable dealer.

[Wolverine1]

That's why, I have not purchased a single pen from EBay, have chosen to buy even the Lamy Safari, Vistas and Al-Stars from reputable dealers. There is substantial value to getting a pen from a dealer, and knowing that you got a legit pen, not a cheap Chinese POS.

I grew up with all manner of counterfit Chinese made pens, and all kinds of goods, so, I am just a bit ticked off seeing how our fellow FPN members are being had.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Wolverine1

[dneal]

I'm gobsmacked. Fake Safari's, who woulda thunk it?

 

The real shame is that now fountain pen boards are going to be littered with "is this Safari real or fake" threads.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I recently purchased an apple green Lamy Safari (my second).

This one is different than the first. It has a black cross top. I do not believe this color was ever sold with a black cross top. I'm returning it today.

 

On looking more closely at the ads, I noticed that the seller has sold quite a few orange Lamy Safaris with a black cross top.

 

These may not be "fake" parts but they don't seem authentic to me. If these colors are legit, please let me know.

 

Now it appears the seller has changed his name but is still selling odd pens. Today I noticed an aquamarine pen is being sold with a black cross top.

 

If curious, I'll share the seller's IDs with you via a private message as I'm not sure if publishing the name would be an FPN violation or not.

Thanks for the warning. I'll be following this.

[arcadeflow]

Any news on this matter? I have seen a lot of aquamarine Safaris going for huge prices, being sold from Singapore, Malaysia and India. Sellers usually carry regular colors too, which means Lamy buyers are at risk unless they buy from reputable sellers. Disgusting.

[OcalaFlGuy]

And some people wonder why some have issues with Chinese pens.

 

GREAT catch Melissa!

 

[EDIT] Someone should touch bases with Brandon on this. He's one of our Safari Gurus.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited September 4, 2014 by OcalaFlGuy

[penrivers]

 

The real shame is that now fountain pen boards are going to be littered with "is this Safari real or fake" threads.

No dneal, the real shame is that the faker dare to replicate that ugly, stiff, stark, brittle, hardstone, graceless Safari with those big deep holes for the fingers.

[KBeezie]

No dneal, the real shame is that the faker dare to replicate that ugly, stiff, stark, brittle, hardstone, graceless Safari with those big deep holes for the fingers.

 

Unless someone has been burned by paying extra for a fake, I'm wondering about the unhealthy hatred and rage going on about it. I'm all for PSA making people aware of the differences, but seems like a different matter to act like they just killed your first born. (sort of like I see some people behaving about China in general, or any product "Made in China").

[penrivers]

 

Unless someone has been burned by paying extra for a fake, I'm wondering about the unhealthy hatred and rage going on about it. I'm all for PSA making people aware of the differences, but seems like a different matter to act like they just killed your first born. (sort of like I see some people behaving about China in general, or any product "Made in China").

I have one of course, red , from Germany, but I don't get its charm yet, maybe its the medium boring nib, I have months thinking to call Todd in I sell.. to get a fine or better an xf, but until then this is my not loved son like James Dean in East of Eden. Btw I have some terrifics Jinhaos, heros, etc etc.

[KBeezie]

I have one of course, red , from Germany, but I don't get its charm yet, maybe its the medium boring nib, I have months thinking to call Todd in I sell.. to get a fine or better an xf, but until then this is my not loved son like James Dean in East of Eden. Btw I have some terrifics Jinhaos, heros, etc etc.

 

I only have one Safari, a Charcoal one that I purchased used, that was stated to be clean and was not (which would have resulted in a full refund, but I felt it only fair the seller least gets shipping and a little on top rather than the full refund he proposed while still keeping the pen either way).

 

Required a little bit of loving on my part to get it into working order, especially since after cleaning the crusted ink the nib no longer just stayed on until I crimped it myself. Course upon doing so and then further smoothing it myself, it's an excellent performer. Though it's a little odd having a good flowing 'Fine' Nib that puts down a line finer than a brand new Lamy EF.

 

Primary reason it's still inked is because it works very well with the Noodler's Texas Live Oak I have, which is a sort of dull-ish green that comes off as sort of iron gall look in that it's not all one solid tone. The ink properties is that it flows like it's an extremely wet ink, in that it will easily bleed or feather if it flows too quickly from the nib (which it does for the brand new EF nib, thus creating a slightly thicker line with blobby dots at the beginning and end of the stroke). Where as with the original Fine nib I fixed up, it doesn't bleed/feather like that. Course the main reason to keep using an ink that behaves like that, is because it's instantly dry once it hits the paper, I'd have to rub it in under 0.2 seconds or so to get a smear because it'll already be dry/smear-proof before it hits 1 second.

 

Most of my other pen/nib combinations are too wet, but it's just right with the Safari and the "fixed" fine nib. I also have a 1.9 for it which works... but it's a little too big, I'd need a 1.5 to really use it for my stub use (which is being done by a Nemosine Singularity with a Goulet 1.5 and som R&K Salix Iron Gall Ink).

 

Prior to getting the Safari, I've had over 10 Jinhao 599s (mostly as review samples), plus a Metal 599 I had previously (also as a review sample). So I've tried the crimped nib, hooded nib, and the open traditional nib (which most of them were). All of them have the sectioned grip just like the Safari, and are cut a little rougher so not quite as nice to the touch as the Safari's grip. The clips are more to my taste than the Safari. But only two wrote as nicely out of the box, the first one with the crimped nib which was very smooth and the other with the hooded nib which was even smoother. However both of those Jinhaos when left just sitting with various different inks will eventually just dry up and become hard starters (one of the 599s with Private Reserve Spearmint never dried out, but there was a flow enhancer added to the ink).

 

Also one of the 599s decided to have an enema in my pen case, spilling out Caran d'Ache Electric Orange out the back of it's less than 2-month old converter. Early on, I was on quite a Chinese Pen Buying Binge, so I've tried quite a few Jinhaos, Hero, Wingsung, Yiren, Duke/Uranus, Kaigelu, etc. Most of which have been given away to new FP users.

 

The used Safari I got for $10 and had to clean up and adjust has not has a problem yet, outside of being a little too dry for something like Noodler's Texas Pecan (dry flowing, oddly takes a little while not to be smear-proof, has sort of an oil slick to it, but doesn't seem like it's lubrication). Plus Charcoal Black just suits me, I don't mind Lime Green or Bright Orange, but those just aren't "me".

 

Course having experienced it, even with a new nib (ie: to give it a fair chance), I probably wouldn't pay full price for one. They're decent, but not particularly something I'd invest $30-40 into. Likewise the Jinhao 599s being as much a hit-or-miss as they are I would not bother buying those even though they are only $4-6 in some cases or as low as $2-3 shipped over seas. For $3 I get much more out of a Pilot Petit1.

 

The disclaimer is of course that I bought a Safari used, and on top of that I had to clean and adjust it. So some may not think I'm really giving it a fair chance, but seeing as I won't really spend $30 myself, I probably won't give it a fair chance (ie: bought new) unless someone gave me one brand new.

 

The Safari reminds me a lot of the Faber-Castell BASIC I have (which has one of the smoothest steel western fine nibs I've used to date). Their nibs are quite decent, but I have more than a couple nit picks with the overall ergonomics and aesthetics of the pen. Becomes a situation where I tell myself, if I could just take this or that nib and put it on a body like this or that, it'd be much nicer.

Edited September 4, 2014 by KBeezie