Jump to content

Why Aren't There More Capless Or Retractable Fountain Pens?


LDWoodworth

Recommended Posts

I'm new to fountain pens, but I'm very interested in the Pilot Vanishing point, but the price is a bit high for this early on in my interest in this hobby. So I am looking for alternates, but all I've seen is the even more expensive Lamy Dialogue 3. Is there a reason these aren't common?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 33
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • LDWoodworth

    5

  • KBeezie

    4

  • Andrea_R

    3

  • Moshe ben David

    2

It's a niche market that seems to be well filled by Pilot's offerings. I don't see much incentive for other manufacturers to enter that segment of the market. Incidentally, the vanishing point is a great pen as long as the grip doesn't clash with how you hold a pen. It was my first serious fountain pen. They can be found at a discount here in the US for roughly $109. Well worth saving up for.

PELIKAN - Too many birds in the flock to count. My pen chest has proven to be a most fertile breeding ground.

fpn_1508261203__fpn_logo_300x150.jpg

THE PELIKAN'S PERCH - A growing reference site for all things Pelikan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's part of what I don't get, why are they a niche market? In the world of ball points, they're nearly on parity between capped ballpoints and clicky. A quick survey of my office co-workers shows more clicky pens by a large margin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its also possible to get it with steel nib if ordered from some Japaese shop / Ebay for about 100 Usd including shipping.

Edited by j.a.j.

Non notisi signi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the problems may be with the pen drying out. Common ballpoint pens use a special, somewhat viscous and dry ink that can withstand exposure to air fairly well. Fountain pen ink is wetter, and therefore more of a problem when it evaporates. The Pilot VP and Lamy Dialogue 3 both have little doors that close over the nib when retracted. Of course those doors aren't as airtight as a good cap can be, so the pens can dry out and have hard starts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the reason you see so many retractable ball points is convenience. Most people that use a ball point don't care much about pens as long as they write. So it's just easier to not have to fool with a cap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I remember...way back...the Vanishing Point was offered as a fountain pen that would be as convenient as a ball-point. That would operate much like a ball-point. Fountain pens are a small part of the writing instrument market, at least by number of units sold. The part of the market that wanted a click-and-jot pen had switched to ball-points already. The VP appeals to a sub-set of the fountain pen market...a sub-set of a sub-set.

Washington Nationals 2019: the fight for .500; "stay in the fight"; WON the fight

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My view is that other pen companies don't feel like retractable fountain pens have a big enough market to be able to justify the time, effort and money it would cost to produce these pens.

 

It is also very hard to make capless fountain pens because the ink is water based and dries out very easily. They would have to do a significant amount of research before designing the pen if they wanted to get it right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a Pilot VP. It was my first fountain pen and, like you, it's pretty much perfect for most of my uses.

 

My guess for why other's have gone down a similar road as Pilot is that the VP is, in my opinion, about perfect in this form factor. Another manufacturer would have to either beat the VP in performance / features, or be much cheaper to even consider taking market share.

 

Also, do realize that the VP has a completely different nib setup. It's much narrower so it can retract and different from Pilot's other nibs / feeds. For another manufacturer to enter this game, they'd have to completely redesign their nib / feed system to fit and that is probably cost prohibitive given the relatively small market share that their pen would grab (simply based on the relatively small marker share FPs grab in the first place).

Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers ~ Voltaire

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't tell you why no one else does it, but I personally as a FP user am not particularly attracted to the capless designs or very small nibs. I'm not trying to replace a ballpoint aesthetically, and some of those vary quite a bit in design or nib appearance. Also there are some benefits to having a larger open nib (especially when it's much cheaper to get nib replacements for standard #6 types of nibs, or easier for some people to grind a larger nib down to a different point).

 

Perhaps if everyone who used/wanted a fountain pen only prefered capless, we'd see more of it, and probably see some pretty cheap versions (which may or may not work out quite so well).

 

I personally like the variety that's out there currently, though they vary in price. Doesn't seem to be enough people who want something like a VP to warrant other manufactures to make it since there's already a couple that fills the niche. As others have stated there are technical hurdles in removing the cap from fountain pens, so it's not easily duplicated into something that's less than 20-50$ that you may be hoping for.

Edited by KBeezie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, part of the appeal of fountain pens is that they do take some amount of time and skill to use, if I want to jot something quick I'll use a click pen but the idea of a click fountain pen just doesn't agree with what I like about them - I'm more horrified by the VP than I know I should be. I think that there should be some more variety in shape and style and reliability...just not in the 'more accessible' direction. We already have the Pilot Varsity!

Edited by Vikhalla

Support Live Comedy - Go To Your Local Comedy Club Today!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Twsbi has developed its own prototype of a fountain pen with a retractable nib

 

I'd like to see that. I have the LD3. I just ordered from TWSBI and I must have overlooked that pen.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to see that. I have the LD3. I just ordered from TWSBI and I must have overlooked that pen.

 

I went looking for this pen. FPGeeks had an article in late 2011 about a TWSBI Click that looked like a knock off of the Pilot VP that they were going to sell for under a $100. Looked super similar, so might have been ditched to avoid legal issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I went looking for this pen. FPGeeks had an article in late 2011 about a TWSBI Click that looked like a knock off of the Pilot VP that they were going to sell for under a $100. Looked super similar, so might have been ditched to avoid legal issues.

 

Not enough of a similarity (especially in clip placement) to worry about legal issues unless Pilot somehow has a patent in the US for retractable fountain pens. I think it's more likely they could not find it feasible to produce them while keeping the selling point under $100.

 

The last paragraph pretty much says what I was thinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why aren't there more? Look at some of the discussions on c/c pens and some of the responses. You'll find that the desire to hold a great deal of ink is important among many enthusiasts. To have nib retract, the nib must be withdrawn into the body of the pen. This increases the width of the nib section and wastes space that can't be used for ink, collector, or feed. The spring and button also takes up space in the pen that can't be used for ink and increases the weight of the pen. I have two Pilot VPs, and many here have many even with extra nib sections. Many swear by their pistons, lever fillers, vac fills, etc. A couple of turns for many pens isn't a big deal, and other pens have slip caps like the Lamy 2000 and Parker "51." No effort or requirement at all.

 

You'll be surprised just how good these pens are!

 

Buzz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since you are interested in fountain pens with retractable nibs, later on you might also be interested in the "MontBlanc Bohème Fountain Pen".

Kind regards,

 

Rui

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could see it for a doctor making his rounds.

I have no need for one, nor ever gave much thought to buying one.

Personally, I'm not into hooded or semi-hooded or even spade nibs. I like the classic big open nib.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is number of retractable pens. Most are expensive special editions (Stipula, Visconti etc.) except for the Lamy Dialog 3. The majority are not as convenient (size etc) but I think that the biggest problem is that they dry too quickly. It seems that only Pilot has managed to built the pens at the exacting standards required to properly seal the nib, and at the same time maintain a reasonable price. After all who else could manage it? The big three in Japan and Lamy in Europe seem to be the only ones who have the manufacturing capability and marketing position. Pelikan and Montblanc are geared to high market (mostly) classical designs. The rest of the Europeans are all boutique firms and that includes Waterman. Parker, Sheaffer? mass produced Chinese stuff. The Taiwanese? None of them have the capability to produce something similar and especially try to move against the So I do not think that anybody else today can built something similar.

Gistar

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why aren't there more? Look at some of the discussions on c/c pens and some of the responses. You'll find that the desire to hold a great deal of ink is important among many enthusiasts. To have nib retract, the nib must be withdrawn into the body of the pen. This increases the width of the nib section and wastes space that can't be used for ink, collector, or feed. The spring and button also takes up space in the pen that can't be used for ink and increases the weight of the pen. I have two Pilot VPs, and many here have many even with extra nib sections. Many swear by their pistons, lever fillers, vac fills, etc. A couple of turns for many pens isn't a big deal, and other pens have slip caps like the Lamy 2000 and Parker "51." No effort or requirement at all.

 

You'll be surprised just how good these pens are!

 

Buzz

 

last time I checked the VP takes the same 0.9ml cartridge and con-20 as every other pilot pen and I think comes with a con-50 piston style converter (holds less than a cartridge or con-20 squeeze converter, but is about the same physical size) so you could opt to use the con-20 for more capacity which is larger than a number of different cartridges. based on what was said by you, you'd think it's capacity would be different most of the pilot line up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Most Contributions

    1. amberleadavis
      amberleadavis
      43844
    2. PAKMAN
      PAKMAN
      33501
    3. Ghost Plane
      Ghost Plane
      28220
    4. inkstainedruth
      inkstainedruth
      26627
    5. jar
      jar
      26101
  • Upcoming Events

  • Blog Comments

    • Shanghai Knife Dude
      I have the Sailor Naginata and some fancy blade nibs coming after 2022 by a number of new workshop from China.  With all my respect, IMHO, they are all (bleep) in doing chinese characters.  Go use a bush, or at least a bush pen. 
    • A Smug Dill
      It is the reason why I'm so keen on the idea of a personal library — of pens, nibs, inks, paper products, etc. — and spent so much money, as well as time and effort, to “build” it for myself (because I can't simply remember everything, especially as I'm getting older fast) and my wife, so that we can “know”; and, instead of just disposing of what displeased us, or even just not good enough to be “given the time of day” against competition from >500 other pens and >500 other inks for our at
    • adamselene
      Agreed.  And I think it’s good to be aware of this early on and think about at the point of buying rather than rationalizing a purchase..
    • A Smug Dill
      Alas, one cannot know “good” without some idea of “bad” against which to contrast; and, as one of my former bosses (back when I was in my twenties) used to say, “on the scale of good to bad…”, it's a spectrum, not a dichotomy. Whereas subjectively acceptable (or tolerable) and unacceptable may well be a dichotomy to someone, and finding whether the threshold or cusp between them lies takes experiencing many degrees of less-than-ideal, especially if the decision is somehow influenced by factors o
    • adamselene
      I got my first real fountain pen on my 60th birthday and many hundreds of pens later I’ve often thought of what I should’ve known in the beginning. I have many pens, the majority of which have some objectionable feature. If they are too delicate, or can’t be posted, or they are too precious to face losing , still they are users, but only in very limited environments..  I have a big disliking for pens that have the cap jump into the air and fly off. I object to Pens that dry out, or leave blobs o
  • Chatbox

    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More
  • Files






×
×
  • Create New...