Parker Sonnet Nib Query

[Fountainpenenthusiast]

Greetings!

 

Would like to have valued opinion of the forum members regarding the nib choice on a parker Sonnet.

 

I wanted to purchase a Sonnet in full black body and chrome trimmings, however this combination is usually available in a stainless steel nib which I don't like. What if a Sonnet is purchased with a stainless steel nib and a separate nib unit (18k gold/750) is used to replace the stailess steel nib?

 

I wanted to enquire if this upgraded pen would perform as good as the ones which come factory installed with a (18k/750) nib?

 

Is the internal mechanism of a stailess steel Sonnet the same as the internal mechanism of a factory fitted gold nib Sonnet? or the stainless steel internal housing is inferior in material or workmanship as compared to the factory fitted 18k gold nib sonnet?

 

How will this upgrade affect the writing quality of Sonnet?

 

Has anyone done this before?

 

Will be looking forward to all the valuable inputs!

 

Thanks

[The Blue Knight]

I can tell you for a factor the nib units are identical. But with all honest the idea I wouldn't recommend it. The fact is with a Sonnet sold with a nib gold nib you are getting far better value for money then buying a pen and a nib. I mean a solid gold nib cost as much as £70 alone where as you can get a really nice higher end sonnet for about £100. So it's far better value buying the desired pen straight.

 

The new gold nibs are very good and I like them but the stainless nibs are some of the best stainless steel nibs I have ever used.

 

So my suggestion go for one like this one if your set on a gold nib. I own it and really like it.

 

 

[penmanila]

I have quite a few Sonnets and don't see how or why the internals should differ. Most 18k Sonnet nibs I have, especially the two-tone ones,are sweet soft writers that practically flex.

[plumista]

I have used quite a number of different Sonnets. All nib+feeder threaded kits I know of are fully interchangeable, so no problem when swapping them. The steel nibs for the Sonnet are a legend, not less than the 14K or the 18K versions.

 

By the way, you can check this Sonnet I have for sale here, provided you do like the black-and-gold combination. Its nib is 18K, with the added value of being a rare medium italic nib.

 

In brief, enjoy the Sonnet you choose! You cannot go wrong with a Sonnet!

 

plumista

[The Blue Knight]

I have used quite a number of different Sonnets. All nib+feeder threaded kits I know of are fully interchangeable, so no problem when swapping them. The steel nibs for the Sonnet are a legend, not less than the 14K or the 18K versions.

 

By the way, you can check this Sonnet I have for sale here, provided you do like the black-and-gold combination. Its nib is 18K, with the added value of being a rare medium italic nib.

 

In brief, enjoy the Sonnet you choose! You cannot go wrong with a Sonnet!

 

plumista

 

90 euros! you can nearly buy a new one for that price!

[pajaro]

I bought from ebay a black with chrome trim Sonnet Refresh, the latest model, with an 18K extra fine nib, rhodium plated, for $60 US. The seller was from Sweden. It's one of the better Sonnets I have used.

 

The internals of the Sonnets are all the same. The nib, steel or 18K, clips onto the feed. The nib and feed unit screws into the section. The converter or cartridge plugs into the section. It's really quite simple, and they all work the same.

 

For a Sonnet with a laquer finish that $60 US is the top price I have paid for a Sonnet with 18K nib. The other Sonnets I have bought were usually less than $50 and some black with gold trim, 18K nib, pens under $30. The first Sonnet I bought, Firedance red and black lacquer marble with 18K medium italic nib, was $42. Patience. Be a patient, cold and calculating buyer and wait for what you want. These pens are coming up for sale all the time.

 

The only difference between the gold plated steel, chrome trim steel, 18K gold nib gold tone and 18K rhodium plated nib pens is the nib itself. They come in a unit with the nib clipped to a feed, and the unit screws into the section. I have over two dozen various Sonnets, and I have had the nibs out of all of them for cleaning. They are the same internally.

 

Frankly, there are hardly any of these pens I would not be glad to sell. The performance across the board does not come up to my expectations, but then my expectations are conditioned by the Parker 51s, Montblancs, Pelikans and Waterman pens I have owned. The Sonnet is kind of a high maintenance pen. You have to keep it clean and flush it frequently. Even then it might be hard to start. Those who gush poetic over any Sonnet under the sun must have fairly low expectations of a pen. I have tried a pretty fair sample of Sonnets, and they are all the same, steel nib or 18K gold nib, it makes no difference. It's not the nib itself, because I have taken the nib of some off of the clip and plugged the nib into an Esterbrook or Cross Solo pen, both inexpensive pens, and that Sonnet nib performs perfectly, and it performs much better than it ever did in a Sonnet. Go figure.

 

It is possible to get the Sonnet to perform sorta kinda like it should, if you periodically unscrew the nib from the section and wash it out and then put it back together and ink it up. A daily refill helps. Use a good ink of choice.

[Fountainpenenthusiast]

Thank you all for your reply!

 

Actually I don't appreciate the gold trims that much and would rather prefer a chrome trim.

 

The Sonnet with Chrome trim and 18k nib available in my region is Dark Grey CT for around GBP140 / Euro170 / USD 235:

http://www.theonlinepencompany.com/product_images/P_Sonnet_DarkGrey_CT_FP_L.jpg

 

But a stainless steel bodied Sonnet with an SS nib is for around GBP50/ / Euro60/ USD82

 

Kindly also inform me about the F vs M nib of a Sonnet. Currently I am using a Parker Frontier with an F nib and for what I appreciate I would not want anything broader than this. How does the Sonnet F nib compare to the Frontier F Nib?

 

Thanks

Edited April 25, 2014 by Fountainpenenthusiast

[Fountainpenenthusiast]

I bought from ebay a black with chrome trim Sonnet Refresh, the latest model, with an 18K extra fine nib, rhodium plated, for $60 US. The seller was from Sweden. It's one of the better Sonnets I have used.

 

The internals of the Sonnets are all the same. The nib, steel or 18K, clips onto the feed. The nib and feed unit screws into the section. The converter or cartridge plugs into the section. It's really quite simple, and they all work the same.

 

For a Sonnet with a laquer finish that $60 US is the top price I have paid for a Sonnet with 18K nib. The other Sonnets I have bought were usually less than $50 and some black with gold trim, 18K nib, pens under $30. The first Sonnet I bought, Firedance red and black lacquer marble with 18K medium italic nib, was $42. Patience. Be a patient, cold and calculating buyer and wait for what you want. These pens are coming up for sale all the time.

 

The only difference between the gold plated steel, chrome trim steel, 18K gold nib gold tone and 18K rhodium plated nib pens is the nib itself. They come in a unit with the nib clipped to a feed, and the unit screws into the section. I have over two dozen various Sonnets, and I have had the nibs out of all of them for cleaning. They are the same internally.

 

Frankly, there are hardly any of these pens I would not be glad to sell. The performance across the board does not come up to my expectations, but then my expectations are conditioned by the Parker 51s, Montblancs, Pelikans and Waterman pens I have owned. The Sonnet is kind of a high maintenance pen. You have to keep it clean and flush it frequently. Even then it might be hard to start. Those who gush poetic over any Sonnet under the sun must have fairly low expectations of a pen. I have tried a pretty fair sample of Sonnets, and they are all the same, steel nib or 18K gold nib, it makes no difference. It's not the nib itself, because I have taken the nib of some off of the clip and plugged the nib into an Esterbrook or Cross Solo pen, both inexpensive pens, and that Sonnet nib performs perfectly, and it performs much better than it ever did in a Sonnet. Go figure.

 

It is possible to get the Sonnet to perform sorta kinda like it should, if you periodically unscrew the nib from the section and wash it out and then put it back together and ink it up. A daily refill helps. Use a good ink of choice.

You have replied in quite some detail so thanks for the explanation!

 

Actually I am moving up the ladder of Parker fountain pens, however I am keeping my options open.

 

The other pen I was considering was a Cross Townsend. If you don't mind can you provide me with a few options to choose from. I want something which is not flashy and is not fat thus becomes comfortable to hold and write! meaning a Duofold is Not what I am looking for!

 

I can relate to Parker for a long time, therefore selected a Sonnet with its balance in quality & being not too flashy! sort of a medium pen. Can you also give me examples of some waterman & montblanc which feel similar to a sonnet with an 18k nib?

 

Thanks

Edited April 25, 2014 by Fountainpenenthusiast

[pajaro]

In Montblanc, you might want to consider the Generation, available on ebay. It's not too flashy, and is a perfect writer. I have a green one I paid $100 for, actually from a member here. The Generation is a C/C filler, known in black, red, blue, green and purple, C/C filler, 14K nibs. There is also the 144, smallish, but far better than a Sonnet. On ebay expect $100 to $200 for a nice one. I have five of them in red and black, gold trim. 14K nibs, C/C filler. A larger pen is the 146, prices varying $200 to $400, 14K nibs, piston filler.

 

Waterman Carene, 18K nib, C/C filler. No steel nibs. Like Sonnet, a lacquered over metal barrel and cap, in a different style it took me years to come to like before I could stand to buy one. The style is supposed to immitate a cabin cruiser -- Carene translates from French as "hull" of a boat. This is a sublime writer, its only vice being that it's hard to post the cap on the barrel unless you force it on. If a Waterman pen dries out, just put it to scrap paper and draw a line, and it will restart. I have bought Carenes from $110 to $150 for one NOS. If you write with a Waterman, you might not want any other pen. Some Waterman pens are very pricey. The low end Kultur and the Phileas, now discontinued, with steel nibs and C/C fillers, are just as good writers as the higher end pens. They are plastic and lighter, caps post well. You can leave them on the desk uncapped for a while and then just draw a line on scrap paper and they restart. I have been told that the 18K nibs from the pricier L'Etalon fit into Phileas and Kultur. I am considering it.

 

The Cross Townsend is a big, heavy pen. I paid $50 for a chrome one with a gold medium nib. Like the Waterman pens, this is a perfect writing pen. C/C filler. It feels BIG and HEAVY, trying to convey its impact to you. Posting the cap makes it feel unwieldy in a way the Montblanc 149 or the Pelikan M1000 never quite did. The Townsend is sublime, though. What a nice writing pen!

 

Older Sheaffers are worth considering, 14K nib Touchdown filling Imperials with an inlaid or Triumph nib. Or a Touchdown Dolphin with 14K nib. Very nice pens.

 

Pelikan pens are also sublime. I have an M400 I inked sometime last fall and forgot about. I picked it up the other day, and it wrote right off, never missed or skipped. Paid $130 used, unbeatable. I have used M200, M400, M600, M640, M800, M1000. All piston fillers. All sublime. The style, like the Carene, is different. Perfect pens, a bit pricier than Sonnets, but no Sonnet in my experience works that well. Usually 14K nibs in M400 to M600, 18K in M800 and M1000.

 

The writing experience with a Sonnet 18K nib is "Jeez this won't start!" Scribble, scribble, scribble. Won't start. Dip the nib into a jar of water. Ink comes out into the water. Scribble, scribble, scribble. Finally it writes a bit. Pause. Better cap the pen. Uncap, write some more. "Jeez, it won't start!!####$$@@!!" Dip the pen into water. Starts, writes a bit. Better cap the thing at every pause, but might not help. Anybody out there recognize this pattern, or am I just a lunatic?

 

This is tragic, because the Sonnet feels so nice. It is a beautiful pen. I continue to work with them, trying to unlock the secret of how to make them work as well as the other pens above. I am baffled, but maybe I am doing something very wrong with them.

[pajaro]

I am currently taking each Sonnet section apart, unscrewing the nib and feed and soaking the unit and the section. When I have finished with all of them I will take one pen and ink it again and try to make it work. If I can get this to happen, I will put them up for sale, but they will have to work first. But, hey, I too could be an ignorant ebay seller.

 

"I know nothing about fountain pens, but here we have an excellent Sonnet Refresh with 18K nib. A superb writer! $10 Buy It Now"

[Inkysloth]

I've been remarkably lucky with the two Sonnets I have. One was bought from a flea market, had obviously been used with India Ink or similar, and I dismantled it and gently scraped all of the offending dried ink from every surface. It writes a treat, has no problems with drying up or anything. That has a fine 18kt nib.

 

My second sonnet was 1/3 the original price at a high street stationers, and I sent it to Newell Rubbermaid for a steel medium italic nib. Again, has had no problems with skipping or drying up.

 

The stainless steel nib is as nice to use as the 18kt nib. The 18kt is a little softer, but it's not flexible, so I don't feel the desire to apply pressure when writing. (I have a semi flexible Vacumatic or a very flexible Conway Stewart 200 if I want to go springing across the page!)

 

I've been using primarily Diamine inks, but also Waterman.

[pajaro]

I envy your luck, and am thinking the performance of my Sonnets has deteriorated because of trying to keep too many in play at once. Using only one or two should work out better.

 

Diamine and Waterman inks have better flow than many others.

[OcalaFlGuy]

 

 

"I know nothing about fountain pens, but here we have an excellent Sonnet Refresh with 18K nib. A superb writer! $10 Buy It Now"

 

I am unwilling to take the resulting hit to my Pen Karma account.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[Fountainpenenthusiast]

In Montblanc, you might want to consider the Generation, available on ebay. It's not too flashy, and is a perfect writer. I have a green one I paid $100 for, actually from a member here. The Generation is a C/C filler, known in black, red, blue, green and purple, C/C filler, 14K nibs. There is also the 144, smallish, but far better than a Sonnet. On ebay expect $100 to $200 for a nice one. I have five of them in red and black, gold trim. 14K nibs, C/C filler. A larger pen is the 146, prices varying $200 to $400, 14K nibs, piston filler.

 

Waterman Carene, 18K nib, C/C filler. No steel nibs. Like Sonnet, a lacquered over metal barrel and cap, in a different style it took me years to come to like before I could stand to buy one. The style is supposed to immitate a cabin cruiser -- Carene translates from French as "hull" of a boat. This is a sublime writer, its only vice being that it's hard to post the cap on the barrel unless you force it on. If a Waterman pen dries out, just put it to scrap paper and draw a line, and it will restart. I have bought Carenes from $110 to $150 for one NOS. If you write with a Waterman, you might not want any other pen. Some Waterman pens are very pricey. The low end Kultur and the Phileas, now discontinued, with steel nibs and C/C fillers, are just as good writers as the higher end pens. They are plastic and lighter, caps post well. You can leave them on the desk uncapped for a while and then just draw a line on scrap paper and they restart. I have been told that the 18K nibs from the pricier L'Etalon fit into Phileas and Kultur. I am considering it.

 

The Cross Townsend is a big, heavy pen. I paid $50 for a chrome one with a gold medium nib. Like the Waterman pens, this is a perfect writing pen. C/C filler. It feels BIG and HEAVY, trying to convey its impact to you. Posting the cap makes it feel unwieldy in a way the Montblanc 149 or the Pelikan M1000 never quite did. The Townsend is sublime, though. What a nice writing pen!

 

Older Sheaffers are worth considering, 14K nib Touchdown filling Imperials with an inlaid or Triumph nib. Or a Touchdown Dolphin with 14K nib. Very nice pens.

 

Pelikan pens are also sublime. I have an M400 I inked sometime last fall and forgot about. I picked it up the other day, and it wrote right off, never missed or skipped. Paid $130 used, unbeatable. I have used M200, M400, M600, M640, M800, M1000. All piston fillers. All sublime. The style, like the Carene, is different. Perfect pens, a bit pricier than Sonnets, but no Sonnet in my experience works that well. Usually 14K nibs in M400 to M600, 18K in M800 and M1000.

 

The writing experience with a Sonnet 18K nib is "Jeez this won't start!" Scribble, scribble, scribble. Won't start. Dip the nib into a jar of water. Ink comes out into the water. Scribble, scribble, scribble. Finally it writes a bit. Pause. Better cap the pen. Uncap, write some more. "Jeez, it won't start!!####$$@@!!" Dip the pen into water. Starts, writes a bit. Better cap the thing at every pause, but might not help. Anybody out there recognize this pattern, or am I just a lunatic?

 

This is tragic, because the Sonnet feels so nice. It is a beautiful pen. I continue to work with them, trying to unlock the secret of how to make them work as well as the other pens above. I am baffled, but maybe I am doing something very wrong with them.

Wow!! what a detailed reply and thanks for that!

 

After analysing all the options, Mont blanc seems great however with their focus on luxury (more than writing) I guess I'll pass on Mont blanc

 

Remaining choices are Townsend, Carene and may be the Century II (not totally sold on this one though) & the great Pelikan collection.

 

Can you tell me about the girth of Carene compared to the Sonnet and Townsend?

 

If you had a choice between Townsend and Carene and one of the Pelikans in this price range, which one will you choose and why?

Edited April 25, 2014 by Fountainpenenthusiast

[pajaro]

The barrel of the Carene is slightly larger than the Townsend, but the caps are about the same. Townsend still feels heavier. The cap clicks on the Townsend to post securely. The Carene cap I jam on and it doesn't groove the paint.

 

Between Pelikan, Townsend and Carene there's little difference in the quality of writing. All are great. On balance I will keep the Pelikans. I might sell the Townsend (too awkward) and the Carenes (hard to post caps). The Carenes are beautiful, though. The amber shimmer finish, the green shimmer finish and the beautiful blue lacquer finish are really lovely on the three I have. The Pelikan M400 is light, the cap posts easily, and the White Tortoise finish is beautiful. I have 14K and 18K nibs for the M400 in EF, F and M. That and it doesn't dry out.

[frenchguy86]

Pajaro made a very good post on what to expect from a sonnet. The only thing I'll add is expect a good amount of feedback when writing, at least that's what I have with my Sonnet with 18k nib. I'm not really sure why but my guess is that's because the tines are kinda long and relatively narrow at the end of the nib.

In my collection, at the moment, I would say it's the pen that gives the more feedback. You really feel the paper when writing even if it's a smooth nib.

Edited April 25, 2014 by frenchguy86

[Fountainpenenthusiast]

The barrel of the Carene is slightly larger than the Townsend, but the caps are about the same. Townsend still feels heavier. The cap clicks on the Townsend to post securely. The Carene cap I jam on and it doesn't groove the paint.

 

Between Pelikan, Townsend and Carene there's little difference in the quality of writing. All are great. On balance I will keep the Pelikans. I might sell the Townsend (too awkward) and the Carenes (hard to post caps). The Carenes are beautiful, though. The amber shimmer finish, the green shimmer finish and the beautiful blue lacquer finish are really lovely on the three I have. The Pelikan M400 is light, the cap posts easily, and the White Tortoise finish is beautiful. I have 14K and 18K nibs for the M400 in EF, F and M. That and it doesn't dry out.

It seems to be going the way of Pelikan family then, however there are few drawbacks like piston filling (no cartridge choice) and you have to unscrew the cap everytime you want to write something. These problems are not there when considering Townsend and Carene or Sonnet.

What is a reasonable price to pay as per your experience for M400/M405

 

As far as cross is concerned, I have extensively used their Cartridge inks (especially the blue). As you seem to have vast and extensive experience with fountain pens, can you tell me how can I get the Cross (CARTRIDGE) Blue ink in a bottle? The cross cartridge blue in my opinion is a really vibrant blue ink

I am asking because Cross bottled blue ink is not the same as the cartridge blue ink?

Edited April 26, 2014 by Fountainpenenthusiast

[pajaro]

It has been several years since I used any Cross ink, and I only used the blue-black in cartridges.

 

I broke down half of my Sonnets yesterday, unscrewing the nibs from the sections and rinsing section, converter and nib unit and soaking them overnight. I brushed the small amount of ink off with a soft old toothbrush under warm water. Late last night I reassembled one pen, a burgundy Refresh Sonnet, the newer model, which has one of the older two-tone 18K fine nibs. I inked it and it wrote perfectly. It still writes perfectly this morning, which it would not have done before. I'll have to test this on a continuing basis, but this must be the solution. I haven't had to go to this level of cleaning with any other pen before, but there you have it. This Sonnet is about all I was looking for in a Sonnet in the first place, so I probably won't ink the other Sonnets unless this one breaks.The red pen, the old two-tone fine nib, this is IT for me with the Sonnet. While I might not want to disassemble the pen for cleaning often, I can manage it with one pen rather than have it not work. The rest of them . . .will stay dry.

 

This pen cost about $45 used with a gold plated steel nib. The two-tone fine 18K nib cost about another $45.

 

The Pelikans and every other pen with caps you have to unscrew is a slight pestilence. I agree, I use them less often. They obviously survive with less maintenance. I am not a cartridge user. I found them costly when I was going to school, so I refilled them from bottled ink. I have cartridges in moderate numbers littering my pen drawers. I use converters with C/C pens.

 

The Townsend is a hugely impressive pen. Words fail to express how nicely it writes and how little care it demands. It is better than my Century pens, in a separate class.

 

The Carene is an impressively smooth writer, demanding little care and probably getting some abuse. Some lovers of this pen admit posting the cap is an issue. However, read some of the threads Force of the Waterman forum has posted about. His projects of stripping the lacquer and repainting the pens in different colors using Rustoleum (he says) are fabulous.

 

Rechecking the red Sonnet. Still writes perfectly. I can't believe it. This pen is about as close to a Montblanc 144R (burgundy model) as a Sonnet can get. That's what started me with this Sonnet, because I wanted to use a Parker. Still using my Midnight Blue 51 bought in 1970. It has never been messed with, never had the hood off, never resacced, never flossed. It has had white laundry paint in it, Higgins India ink in it, and still writes perfectly. With the Sonnet I was trying to cut every newer allegiance than Parker. I think I have cracked the code.

[Fountainpenenthusiast]

It has been several years since I used any Cross ink, and I only used the blue-black in cartridges.

 

I broke down half of my Sonnets yesterday, unscrewing the nibs from the sections and rinsing section, converter and nib unit and soaking them overnight. I brushed the small amount of ink off with a soft old toothbrush under warm water. Late last night I reassembled one pen, a burgundy Refresh Sonnet, the newer model, which has one of the older two-tone 18K fine nibs. I inked it and it wrote perfectly. It still writes perfectly this morning, which it would not have done before. I'll have to test this on a continuing basis, but this must be the solution. I haven't had to go to this level of cleaning with any other pen before, but there you have it. This Sonnet is about all I was looking for in a Sonnet in the first place, so I probably won't ink the other Sonnets unless this one breaks.The red pen, the old two-tone fine nib, this is IT for me with the Sonnet. While I might not want to disassemble the pen for cleaning often, I can manage it with one pen rather than have it not work. The rest of them . . .will stay dry.

 

This pen cost about $45 used with a gold plated steel nib. The two-tone fine 18K nib cost about another $45.

 

The Pelikans and every other pen with caps you have to unscrew is a slight pestilence. I agree, I use them less often. They obviously survive with less maintenance. I am not a cartridge user. I found them costly when I was going to school, so I refilled them from bottled ink. I have cartridges in moderate numbers littering my pen drawers. I use converters with C/C pens.

 

The Townsend is a hugely impressive pen. Words fail to express how nicely it writes and how little care it demands. It is better than my Century pens, in a separate class.

 

The Carene is an impressively smooth writer, demanding little care and probably getting some abuse. Some lovers of this pen admit posting the cap is an issue. However, read some of the threads Force of the Waterman forum has posted about. His projects of stripping the lacquer and repainting the pens in different colors using Rustoleum (he says) are fabulous.

 

Rechecking the red Sonnet. Still writes perfectly. I can't believe it. This pen is about as close to a Montblanc 144R (burgundy model) as a Sonnet can get. That's what started me with this Sonnet, because I wanted to use a Parker. Still using my Midnight Blue 51 bought in 1970. It has never been messed with, never had the hood off, never resacced, never flossed. It has had white laundry paint in it, Higgins India ink in it, and still writes perfectly. With the Sonnet I was trying to cut every newer allegiance than Parker. I think I have cracked the code.

Wow!! what a reply! I am totally lost for words!

 

I thought the search for a new fountain pen was narrowing but the field becomes wide open again with the re-entry of Parker Sonnet! Must say you have scored pens for excellent prices! I don't know how to score a Sonnet for around USD90, our regional prices hover around USD230(Dark Grey CT 18k/750)

 

You know what, I don't know but I have soft corner for the design of Sonnet but due to its bad reputation with you and others, it was almost off the list(almost)!

 

As far as the Townsend is concerned, guess if it was to be crossed off the buying list would be due to its Heft and weight (even though I don't write with the cap posted), the price is around USD180.

 

Carene seems to be a solid runner and the regional prices are around USD250.

[Dutchpen]

All sonnet nibs are interchangeable. The sections are the same.

I have some brand new sonnet nib assemblies (nib + feed) for sale in the classifieds (pen parts).also 18ct nibs.