Thoughts On King Of Pen Vs. Nakaya?

[cnjackson]

Hi everyone--as I have written elsewhere on this forum, I have a big anniversary coming up later this year, and I am considering celebrating that day with a nice fountain pen (Hilary would get something non-pen...).

 

Initially, I had thought about a Nakaya, as they are so beautiful--the Naka-ai in unpolished Shu, in particular. But my eye has wandered to the King of Pen (black urushi)--for its understated simplicity.

 

Do you have any thoughts one way or another?

 

Thank you!

 

Chris

[gerigo]

Both very beautiful pens. Here are some points you'd want to consider. I have the Sailor KOP ebonite with gold trim I bought abroad, and the Nakaya Decapod with a BB nib customized to a stub by John Mottishaw.

 

Nakaya - Pluses

- It's an almost customized pen, with the various designs and finishes you choose based on the combination you like best. They will even make a completely custom pen for you but that takes quite a long time.

- They have a much wider variety of nibs to choose from, and if you buy from Nibs.com, they are happy to customize the nib exactly to your liking.

 

Nakaya - Negatives

- It's a light pen. And most of the designs are VERY understated. That's unless you choose a color/ finish combination that's quite a stand out. Its a pen that exudes a quiet aura of quality that's very subtle.

- If you like ink flow to be prodigious, the converter capacity is very small. I have the stub and it routinely runs out after a day or so of writing.

 

Sailor KOP - Pluses

- The balance of the pen is pretty amazing. Although the design I chose is very understated, you can see the enormous amounts of engineering that went into the nib, feed, body and ergonomics. The body has a big chunk of brass in the middle to balance the pen so that it feels great in the hand. It also helps to counter the bigger pivot that comes from the giant nib. This is pen you can use to write for hours and hours and not feel tired. You buy this because of the great writing experience.

 

Sailor - Negatives

- Although there are many designs to choose from, at the end of the day, these are not customized pens. What you see is what you get.

- Availability is limited if you want a slightly unusual model. Like one of the urushi maki-es or the Naginata or king cobra nib.

- For the basic KOPs, they are not urushi, just polished ebonite. Their urushi models are much more expensive.

- The basic models only have a medium and broad nib to choose from.

- Those Sailor converters have small capacity.

 

[anton1978]

KOP only B and M nib

[macaddicted]

I can't speak to Nakyas- I find them to be too light- but I do have Danitrios and a KOP. I agree with the points that gerigo makes for the Sailor. I would add that my Danitrio is heavier than the Nakyas and is an eyedropper so it has much more ink capacity. The downside is it is unpostable with the cap and is a really slow open (a long, fine thread on the cap).

 

So with that being said I'd recommend the KOP, but not the urushi. I have a King Eagle nib on my KOP, which has made it my go to pen in literally every circumstance. Mostly this is related to the hard learned lesson that a beautiful pen with a bad nib is a bad pen (unless you're a collector only). A beautiful pen with a great nib makes the joy of writing all the more joyful.

 

If you have your heart set on urushi then I'd say go with the Nakya, or maybe take a look at the Danitrios. A KOP urushi with one of their specialty nibs is going to be very expensive. I love my Danitrio Densho with its soft medium nib, but just not as much as my KOP King Eagle even if it is a resin body.

[Ghost Plane]

I have a KOP demo and the section diameter seems wider than most of the Nakaya.

[Warnick]

I have a King of Pen (black ebonite) with a King Eagle nib (modified for line variation by John Mottishaw). It is substantial and well-balanced but very understated. I use this pen for special documents and signatures but not for daily writing.

 

I also have two Nakaya Naka-ai Writers (Shu Unpolished & Ama-iro) each with a music nib (modified for italic cursive by John Mottishaw). They are extremely beautiful pens but also feather-light. I use these pens for daily writing at my desk.

 

If I could buy only one of these pens, it would be the KOP with King Eagle nib because of the Nagahara speciality nib.

[Mickey]

I personally don't think that lack of weight is an issue, but, if you want a heavier Nakaya, there is always the Equilibrium model. The moveable weighting system not only allows you to change the balance, but also the weight of the pen. Then there is the Nuno Kise finished pen, which is about 5gms heavier than the regular long cigar (i.e., it is about the same weight as a KOP), and the Titanium Piccolo, which is a substantially heavy pen at 60gms. FYI, a Nakaya Long Cigar's weight is midway between the MB 146 and 149. Nakayas are not really light weight pens. They give the impression of being light, I believe, because they are well balanced. (If I remember correctly, about 60 percent of a Nakaya's weight is in the bottom half of the pen. They are decidedly not back heavy.)

[ukobke]

KOP for sure.

 

I agree with all others. I have to add this though. Nakaya is an over estimated pen. People are waiting too long to receive the pen. After so long time they do not want to admit their mistake. They just say it's a perfect pen just because they were waiting...

 

Yes, I agree Danitrio is a much better and more reliable pen than Nakaya. Nakaya is imitating Platinum. Try an Izumo. Better price better Urushi than Nakaya.

 

Definately KOP. You have many nibs to choose from. I have all these pens. KOP has the best nib, but Danitrio has that touch.

[Mickey]

KOP for sure.

 

I agree with all others. I have to add this though. Nakaya is an over estimated pen. People are waiting too long to receive the pen. After so long time they do not want to admit their mistake. They just say it's a perfect pen just because they were waiting...

 

 

Have you tried any of the pens you just trumpeted or trashed? Try to explain to us why people who buy Nakayas frequently buy several over the course of time. No sane person is going to compound their mistake at the cost of $500+ a throw. Maybe you think Nakaya owners are insane or in some way mentally defective. Notice, I say nothing bad about the KOP (or Danitrio). I'd take one of their pens, if given one, and use it, but I don't have any desire to buy a KOP. It doesn't float my boat. On the other hand, I've purchased 3 Nakayas.

 

Oh, BTW, Nakaya does not imitate Platinum. It is a subsidiary of Platinum. It's employees are retired Platinum employees who wish to continue in the pen making business.

[macaddicted]

KOP for sure.

 

I agree with all others. I have to add this though. Nakaya is an over estimated pen. People are waiting too long to receive the pen. After so long time they do not want to admit their mistake. They just say it's a perfect pen just because they were waiting...

Have you tried any of the pens you just trumpeted or trashed?

Um, Mickey you clipped this:

I have all these pens. KOP has the best nib, but Danitrio has that touch.

Edited April 20, 2014 by macaddicted

[Mickey]

Um, Mickey you clipped this:

I guess I wasn't convinced. I mean, what the blazes does 'KOP has the best nib, but Danitrio has that touch' mean. Sounds like copy from an advertising agency run by the 7 blind men who described the elephant.

 

BTW, I'm an eighteen year old runway model with superb assets and a 7 figure income. As is said frequently around here, without a photo, it didn't happen. This is the internet, after all.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Mickey

[daintydimsum]

I agree with all others. I have to add this though. Nakaya is an over estimated pen. People are waiting too long to receive the pen. After so long time they do not want to admit their mistake. They just say it's a perfect pen just because they were waiting...

 

 

I have two Nakaya pens, and two Danitrio pens. I prefer the Nakaya's, for various reasons, none of which involves wait time. I don't own the KoP but I have tried it and will eventually get one. I'm not going to comment on which I prefer since that (imo) requires actually using the pen awhile.

 

As for beauty... yikes. They are both beautiful pens. I don't think you can go wrong either way. The price difference seems great though!

 

*Oh and as for comfort, I think both the twist decapod and portable are very comfortable (though my Ohasido does take the cake for comfort). Not sure about the Naka-ai.

Edited April 21, 2014 by daintydimsum

[dms525]

KOP for sure.

 

I agree with all others. I have to add this though. Nakaya is an over estimated pen. People are waiting too long to receive the pen. After so long time they do not want to admit their mistake. They just say it's a perfect pen just because they were waiting...

 

 

I do believe that is the most intellectually irresponsible and gratuitously insulting generalization I have encountered to date on the Fountain Pen Network. You have a right to your opinion of Nakayas, as wrong-headed as it seems to me. However, you have absolutely no basis on which to ascribe the motivation you do to those who think more highly of their Nakaya pens.

 

David

A user of more than one Nakaya fountain pen.

[sarahfar]

I had a KOP and sold it. It doesn't make it a bad pen. I didn't like the weight or the nib and that's me. I like the MB 149 more so go figure. I have quite few Nakaya and love them as I do Omas. They are lighter, no doubt. I think about these two it is important to remember they are not apples to oranges, they are quite different pens. And when the King Eagle nib is thrown in, it gets a lot different. Really you should go to a show where you can try the KOP, some of the Nakaya's and maybe even some of the larger and more heavy MBs.....

[cnjackson]

Wow--thank you for all of these responses and insights.

 

First, thank you, Gerigo, for laying out some pros and cons of each. You also made me see that a "mis-wrote" when I said urushi: I had in mind the polished ebonite model, and not the urushi models, which are out of my price range, I believe. Initially, I was concerned that the KOP (regular models) had only the two nib sizes (M and , but I think that's really about all I need.

 

Thank you, Macaddicted--I'll take a peek at Danitrio: I know nothing about that brand.

 

GP--that's interesting about the sections. I feel as though I can adapt to almost anything...

 

Hi Warnick--is there any reason that you don't tend to write with your KOP? (I need to look up the King Eagle nib you mention...)

 

Ukobke--thank you--when you say that the KOP has many nib choices, do these require a special order? (also, I see you have another vote for Danitrio...)

 

Mickey, thanks for your thoughts!

 

And thank you, daintydimsum--the Nakaya portable looks just beautiful to me. Also very understated, which I like.

 

I didn't expect to get such a rich set of responses so quickly--I truly appreciate it. I have to admit that right now the aesthetic of the KOP is really drawing me..

 

Does the KOP tend to be a relatively wet writer? (I know it can be adjusted--just wondering about experience out of the box.)

 

Thanks again, everyone!

 

Chris

[Mickey]

I had a KOP and sold it. It doesn't make it a bad pen. I didn't like the weight or the nib and that's me. I like the MB 149 more so go figure. I have quite few Nakaya and love them as I do Omas. They are lighter, no doubt. I think about these two it is important to remember they are not apples to oranges, they are quite different pens. And when the King Eagle nib is thrown in, it gets a lot different. Really you should go to a show where you can try the KOP, some of the Nakaya's and maybe even some of the larger and more heavy MBs.....

 

I've got a question for you. Most Nakayas are not that much lighter than the 149, so how would you describe the differences, as you perceive them after long acquaintance? I've considered the 149, but the ones I've tried (too briefly) have been set up radically different than I would want. (Way too wet for me.) So, assuming you have your pens set up similarly, such an apples to orange comparison would be interesting to me.

[cnjackson]

A quick thanks to David and Sarahfar, too. I will be attending the DC show in August--perhaps I can try the pens out there. I will say, though, I have not see any Nakayas there in the past two years. And I hadn't heard of the KOP last August! I'll keep my eyes open for them! (my guess is that the King Eagle nib is not an option for me...)

 

Chris

[dms525]

Hi, Chris.

 

I have no experience with the KOP, so I can't compare it to any other based on first hand experience. I have four Nakaya fountain pens, and I will likely order more. I really enjoy their shapes, how the Urushis look and how they feel. I find them all to be really splendid writers, but all have customized nibs. They are light, as has been mentioned, but heavier than some other pens I also enjoy using, particularly OMAS Paragons. The weight of a pen just isn't a very big factor in my valuation. The diameter of the section is more important.

 

My point is: What attributes are most important, except for the most basic, is highly variable. What makes me treasure a particular make or a particular example of that make may be of little significance to you. So, if you don't already know what makes you love a pen, only accumulating personal experience will teach you. A pen show is a great way of of getting that experience, maybe the best for the majority of us who don't have easy access to B&M pen shops any more. Unfortunately, from what I have heard, in the U.S., the only Nakaya vendor who gets to pen shows is John Mottishaw, and he is in L.A. and doesn't get to your coast for pen shows.

 

I have another suggestion: You may find an FPN member who has Nakayas and lives close enough to you that a get together might be arranged. I've seen this work for at least one other FPN member in a similar situation.

 

At any rate, good luck with your search. And congratulations on your upcoming anniversary. I celebrated my 45th last Winter.

 

David

[cnjackson]

Hi, Chris.

 

I have no experience with the KOP, so I can't compare it to any other based on first hand experience. I have four Nakaya fountain pens, and I will likely order more. I really enjoy their shapes, how the Urushis look and how they feel. I find them all to be really splendid writers, but all have customized nibs. They are light, as has been mentioned, but heavier than some other pens I also enjoy using, particularly OMAS Paragons. The weight of a pen just isn't a very big factor in my valuation. The diameter of the section is more important.

 

My point is: What attributes are most important, except for the most basic, is highly variable. What makes me treasure a particular make or a particular example of that make may be of little significance to you. So, if you don't already know what makes you love a pen, only accumulating personal experience will teach you. A pen show is a great way of of getting that experience, maybe the best for the majority of us who don't have easy access to B&M pen shops any more. Unfortunately, from what I have heard, in the U.S., the only Nakaya vendor who gets to pen shows is John Mottishaw, and he is in L.A. and doesn't get to your coast for pen shows.

 

I have another suggestion: You may find an FPN member who has Nakayas and lives close enough to you that a get together might be arranged. I've seen this work for at least one other FPN member in a similar situation.

 

At any rate, good luck with your search. And congratulations on your upcoming anniversary. I celebrated my 45th last Winter.

 

David

45! Congratulations! Hil and I will be hitting 15 years on September 4. How did the time go by so quickly? Next thing we know, our 8-year old daughter (Sophia) will be off to college. I can hardly bear the thought.

 

In fact, I have admired your great posts on your Nakayas--and if I remember correctly, you have at least one in unpolished shu--a finish that I really love. Like you, I don't find that the weight of a pen is a particularly large factor.

 

The things that matter most to me in my pens are these: a wet and inky flow and a suppleness in the nib that I find hard to explain. My favorite pens (of the ones I own) are a MB 146 (M), a Pelikan 805 (, and a really wonderful little 1950s Monte Rosa (OM)--they all feel quite different, and I like them for different reasons. I probably use the 146 and the Pelikan most. I almost always write unposted because I like the weight of the pen to be more forward.

 

I like your idea of tracking down someone who might be willing to let me try his/her Nakaya.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and help!

 

Chris

[sarahfar]

Like your 146, the Nakaya's are 14 kt #6. The 149's are 14 or 18K and a large #9, and as I remember my KOP was a 21K large nib I believe a # 9 or larger. It is longer slightly maybe a 1/4 or 3/8" if I remember. The nib is stiff like firmer German nibs. I would say out of the box the flow is medium neither rich nor dry.