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Nib Changes In Pelikan "originals" Series


markh

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I have most of the pens in the Pelikan "orignals" series - that are copies of the 1930s era pens.

 

I recently purchased the 100N lizard pen with a F nib.

 

The nib was IMO a disaster - my fine had a huge blob of tipping material. I'm slowly reshaping it to be the fine I ordered (and is marked). I'm still working on the flow, since I don't think the feed conforms correctly to the nib.

 

But I noticed something on this pen that I hadn't seen before. The nib on both this pen, and the Tortoise (which is also a 100N look-alike) are 14K instead of 18K. Its also relatively flexible for a modern pen, and more flexible than the earlier 18K pens in the series. It appears to my eye that the nib is cut differently, with longer tines that would give more flex.

 

It writes as a semi-flex nib. Not like the vintage versions, but not as stiff as the earlier pens (or most Pelikan 400 sized pens).

 

An interesting change for Pelikan to make. All of the original 100/100N pens that I have or have seen have 14K vintage flexible nibs.

 

Anyone else notice??

 

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"Bad spelling, like bad grammar, is an offense against society."

- - Good Form Letter Writing, by Arthur Wentworth Eaton, B.A. (Harvard);  © 1890

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Do you have experience on the 14c nibs on recent M400s/M600s? If so, how are they compared to the nibs on 101Ns?

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I have both the lizard and the tortoise. The nibs are softer and far more interesting that most or the contemporary nibs -- however there are some threads were the difference in nibs in the several sizes of pens in the souveran line were discussed. In that case there is some variation -- my m600 nib is soft, and the m1000 is of course very pliable while the m800 nib is very stiff.

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Do you have experience on the 14c nibs on recent M400s/M600s? If so, how are they compared to the nibs on 101Ns?

 

I haven't purchased one recently. I did look at a few - while I haven't filled them, they appear to be cut for less flex, and don't flex much when I just try them without ink. Same with 600s.

 

Of course, the only real test is to ink them and write. Haven't gone to that step.

 

.

...

"Bad spelling, like bad grammar, is an offense against society."

- - Good Form Letter Writing, by Arthur Wentworth Eaton, B.A. (Harvard);  © 1890

.

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I bought two modern spare M400 nibs: one OM and one M.

 

I don't like them. Both seem more B or BB, than Ms,

The OM has no variation,

 

I have tought of selling them, maybe someone is interested in grounding them because they have a lot of tipping material.

I always refuse selling something, thinking someday I may need them, and it is very dificult to find spares and imposible find them in Mexico,

 

Best,

Julio

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Modern Obliques are worthless, there is no flex to add to the line variation.

I have been saying that for years...every chance I can.

 

I have some 14 vintage obliques in semi-flex and 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex that are very much worth having. See if Rick or Penboard.de have vintage pre'66 nibs in oblique M. In vintage the nibs are @ a 1/2 width narrower than modern...true to width.

 

Modern nibs because they are made for folks who still hold a fountain pen like a ball point, are fatter...double Kugle...ball on both sides, not like vintage where the bottom is flat. It is stiffer....no longer regular flex but semi-nail.

Semi-nail blobby nibs are why I don't own a couple 600s.

 

Get your self a vintage nib for the pens. I have an early '50's semi-flex B on my modern 600 and am using it for the first time in ages.

 

 

Stub or CI is about all you can do to Modern Pelikan nibs out side the 1000 and 200.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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101n lizard owner here, they are springy and offer little line variation IMO. I have the EF and mine writes like a medium. Tipping material is huge. I am happy that i am able to spread the tines a bit too :-). I will eventually get the nib worked for a finer line and maybe added flex.

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Regarding Obliques -- this is one reason why Pelikan have discontinued them.. people were expecting line variation where that's not the primary reason for an "oblique" tipping.. rotation, not variation.. well, might be mistaken but that's how I understand it.

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Regarding Obliques -- this is one reason why Pelikan have discontinued them.. people were expecting line variation where that's not the primary reason for an "oblique" tipping.. rotation, not variation.. well, might be mistaken but that's how I understand it.

 

 

I think for more rounded obliques, as they would come from the factory, I agree with you.

 

But I have several sharp, crisp obliques - all custom ground either by me or someone else. They give plenty of variation, and IMO a very nice line.

 

The difference is in objectives. Factory obliques are generally designed to make it easier and more comfortable to use the pen. I also understand that oblique nibs can work well with left handers - since I'm not one, I don't understand exactly how this works.

 

My obliques are harder to use, take more practice, but make a more interesting line.

 

It depends on what your looking for....

 

.

...

"Bad spelling, like bad grammar, is an offense against society."

- - Good Form Letter Writing, by Arthur Wentworth Eaton, B.A. (Harvard);  © 1890

.

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I think for more rounded obliques, as they would come from the factory, I agree with you.

 

But I have several sharp, crisp obliques - all custom ground either by me or someone else. They give plenty of variation, and IMO a very nice line.

 

The difference is in objectives. Factory obliques are generally designed to make it easier and more comfortable to use the pen. I also understand that oblique nibs can work well with left handers - since I'm not one, I don't understand exactly how this works.

 

My obliques are harder to use, take more practice, but make a more interesting line.

 

It depends on what your looking for....

 

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I think you are confusing "crisp" [i assume you mean italic] with Oblique. But don't take my word for it, this from Richard Binder, he might know a thing or two about it:

 

 

Oblique Italics

IMPORTANT: Please read before ordering oblique nibs.

The term “oblique” does not mean “line variation.” Italic nibs give line variation; oblique nibs accommodate the way some people rotate the pen. Obliques can be italic, or they can be plain round nibs. All of the obliques offered on this page are oblique italics! Note that 30° left-foot oblique italics are not suitable for most users; they are intended primarily for left-handed underwriters who do not find 15° right-foot oblique italics comfortable. For more information, please read Nibs I: The Basics.

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I think you are confusing "crisp" [i assume you mean italic] with Oblique. But don't take my word for it, this from Richard Binder, he might know a thing or two about it:

 

 

Oblique Italics

IMPORTANT: Please read before ordering oblique nibs.

The term “oblique” does not mean “line variation.” Italic nibs give line variation; oblique nibs accommodate the way some people rotate the pen. Obliques can be italic, or they can be plain round nibs. All of the obliques offered on this page are oblique italics! Note that 30° left-foot oblique italics are not suitable for most users; they are intended primarily for left-handed underwriters who do not find 15° right-foot oblique italics comfortable. For more information, please read Nibs I: The Basics.

 

 

You know what? He's wrong....

 

Its possible to have flat/square nibs in the range of stub-->cursive italic-->crisp italic-->calligraphy nibs. The calligraphy nibs are so sharp its essentially impossible to do normal handwriting.

 

The same range is available for oblique nibs. Mine are ground (intentionally) to be quite crisp and sharp. They give significant line variation. It's also true that the nib is rotated when writing, so that the line variation is at an angle vs the handwriting produced by a crisp italic ground nib.

 

I have a couple of crisp oblique nibs from Richard - that's exactly how they behave.

 

I probably hold them differently than a person who needs an oblique to comfortably write - but it works for me as a way of getting a certain handwriting look. The look is quite different from an italic nib.

 

 

.

...

"Bad spelling, like bad grammar, is an offense against society."

- - Good Form Letter Writing, by Arthur Wentworth Eaton, B.A. (Harvard);  © 1890

.

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You know what? He's wrong....

 

Its possible to have flat/square nibs in the range of stub-->cursive italic-->crisp italic-->calligraphy nibs. The calligraphy nibs are so sharp its essentially impossible to do normal handwriting.

 

The same range is available for oblique nibs. Mine are ground (intentionally) to be quite crisp and sharp. They give significant line variation. It's also true that the nib is rotated when writing, so that the line variation is at an angle vs the handwriting produced by a crisp italic ground nib.

 

I have a couple of crisp oblique nibs from Richard - that's exactly how they behave.

 

I probably hold them differently than a person who needs an oblique to comfortably write - but it works for me as a way of getting a certain handwriting look. The look is quite different from an italic nib.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.This is the same case for me, however i am a lefty. i enjoy how the oblique nibs make my writing look. I have NEVER been able to make a stub work for me, theu always look like i am using a BB+ nib, and i dont like the look, with oblique nibs, its like an entirely different world, the line variation for how i hold the pen gets utilized to its maximum, the thinnest part of the line make up the top of the letters, and that is how i prefer my writing to look.

Edited by brewsky
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For Right handers...as I am one.

Many folks are left eye dominate, and cant their pens. I noticed every class had one or two of those folks that held their pens 'crooked' back in the day of B&W TV. ...back when many still used a fountain pen in grade

An Oblique lets them see the nib and write....the 'rotation' Richard mentions.

 

I had a nail OB 18 K Persona that stayed in the box...no line variation, until Pendelton Brown made it a M-B cursive italic, with lots of line variation.

 

CI and Stub = max line variation always....as a fine poster pointed out.

Vintage German pre'66 (MB pre '76) semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex offer line variation on demand. There will be some because of the more flex, but more line variation can be had with a bit of pressure .....line variation on demand.

 

I have been very lucky, in planning had nothing to do with it....I have OBB, OB, OM, & OF in 15 & 30 degree grinds.

30 degree of course gives more line variation to right handers with nibs with some flex.

 

I had not remembered that 30 degree was an aid to certain left handed styles.

 

I I understand US pen makers like Parker and Sheaffer went nail and stub in the '30's. I don't know much about English pens, other than Swan and some CS...had nibs with some flex. In the six weeks I chased Swan's....learning as I looked....and didn't catch any...needed to know enough....I didn't remember any obliques.

It could be that obliques were more a German thing, when added to nibs with some flex....they did make them up to @ 1966....could be later...in I don't know much about German spade nibs.

 

Yes I get good line variation in German Obliques in both semi-flex and 'flexi'.

Then again one gets some line variation in regular nibs of those two flexes.

Getting them in oblique...for right handers....really adds some fun to one's writing.

 

Do check to see if you are right or left eye dominate....to see if you need an oblique....if so, get one with some flex=fun. ...even if right eye dominate like me; I have lots of fun with German vintage pre'66 obliques.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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