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duofold jr. mystery parker

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#1 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 15:57

At a thrift store...

These.

Thrift_Store_Pens-610w.jpg

What can you tell me about them, other 'n' the fact that the Duofold Jr. lacks a nib and the other one (unsure what model) looks like the feed doesn't really match up...maybe even the entire section....

Thanks. I really know very little about Parker, though I have another older Duofold Jr. awaiting restoration, and a Frontier I use now and then.

#2 icardoth

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 17:22

Left pen is a Parker Striped Duofold from 1940-1948c. Have a look at http://parkercollector.com/duovac.html

 

The pen in the right is a Parker  51. The nib and feed should be inserted deeper in the section. The section seems to be somewhat warped, but a close examination will confirm that. 


Edited by icardoth, 12 April 2014 - 17:25.


#3 Ernst Bitterman

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 17:24

The one on the right is a "51" or Super "21"-- I can't quite tell the colour of the point or the shape of the clip in this picture.  Whichever it is, it looks like someone had managed to shrink the hood and drag the point and feed part-way clear.


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#4 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 17:40

The 51 looks like a gold nib to me.  The cap also seems pretty decent at that angle. You will be amazed at how well the Vac trim cleans up.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl



#5 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 18:05

Thanks!

The section on the 'Super 21/51’ seems to be shaped. Unlike just about every 51 I have seen in pictures, or even the Hero 616s I have, which are not. It's smaller toward the nib and middle and fattens out toward the threads.

Did someone try to heat-shrink this? The feed just doesn't seem to fit and I don't want to force anything.

I dipped it in water and it still writes in a blue-black color.

#6 Florida Blue

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 19:43

I think that black pen is a 21 Super rather then a 51. I'm basing this on the fact that the section is badly shrunk and the cap has no lip. The 21 Super was made from polystyrene rather then Lucite and was more susceptible to shrinking, especially the hood.

 

Also, that striped Duofold is not a Jr. size. The Jr. had two thin cap bands. Is the Striped Duofold a button or Vacumatic fill? If it's a button filler then it is probably a Lady Duofold. 

 

You can probably get a new hood for the 21 pretty easily.


Edited by Florida Blue, 12 April 2014 - 19:43.

Parker: Sonnet Flighter, Rialto Red Metallic Laque, IM Premium Chiseled Gunmetal, Latitude Stainless, 45 Black, Duovac Blue Pearl Striped, 51 Standard Black, 21 Super Red, Vac Jr. Black, 51 MK1 Black, 51 Vac Blue Cedar, Duofold Jr. Lapis, 51 MK1 Demi Black, 51 MK1 Demi Teal, 51 MK1 Navy Gray, Duofold Pastel Moire Violet, Vac Major Golden Brown, Vac Deb. Emerald, 51 Vac Dove Gray, Vac Major Azure, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, 51 Vac Black GF Cap, 51 Forest Green GF cap, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, Duovac Senior Green & Gold, Duovac Sub. Deb. Black.

#7 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 20:09

I think that black pen is a 21 Super rather then a 51. I'm basing this on the fact that the section is badly shrunk and the cap has no lip. The 21 Super was made from polystyrene rather then Lucite and was more susceptible to shrinking, especially the hood.
 
Also, that striped Duofold is not a Jr. size. The Jr. had two thin cap bands. Is the Striped Duofold a button or Vacumatic fill? If it's a button filler then it is probably a Lady Duofold. 
 
You can probably get a new hood for the 21 pretty easily.


I made a mistake calling the Duofold a Jr. There's no Jr. on the barrel, lol. Sorry! Yes, it's a button-filler. So that's a Lady Duofold? It is on the small side. Thanks!

#8 Florida Blue

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 00:02

I made a mistake calling the Duofold a Jr. There's no Jr. on the barrel, lol. Sorry! Yes, it's a button-filler. So that's a Lady Duofold? It is on the small side. Thanks!

 

You're welcome! 

 

Yes, a Lady Duofold would be a smaller pen and marketed to women. It's probably close in size to a Debutante or Sub-Debutante Vacumatic from the same era. Still they were good looking, high-quality pens.


Parker: Sonnet Flighter, Rialto Red Metallic Laque, IM Premium Chiseled Gunmetal, Latitude Stainless, 45 Black, Duovac Blue Pearl Striped, 51 Standard Black, 21 Super Red, Vac Jr. Black, 51 MK1 Black, 51 Vac Blue Cedar, Duofold Jr. Lapis, 51 MK1 Demi Black, 51 MK1 Demi Teal, 51 MK1 Navy Gray, Duofold Pastel Moire Violet, Vac Major Golden Brown, Vac Deb. Emerald, 51 Vac Dove Gray, Vac Major Azure, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, 51 Vac Black GF Cap, 51 Forest Green GF cap, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, Duovac Senior Green & Gold, Duovac Sub. Deb. Black.

#9 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 18:38

Update!

I tried removing the hood of the Super 21. No way. Therefore, I just left it as is.

So I flushed it and refilled it with a mix of half Skrip Blue Black and half Skrip Turquoise. And it writes. Really really well. It just LOOKS ugly with that shrunken hood.

So? What woulda been a good price for both?

#10 pajaro

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 00:20

The black pen is a Parker 51.  A super 21 has a different, raised, clutch ring.


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#11 Ernst Bitterman

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 15:59

The black pen is a Parker 51.  A super 21 has a different, raised, clutch ring.

 

Some did...

Parker-0353.jpg

 

...but later ones didn't:

Parker-0215.jpg

 

If the cap has a 45-style clip, then it's a Super 21.  A 51 Special... um, should, I think... say so on its filler housing, and both had the Octanium point.


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#12 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 17:07

At a casual glance I can't tell the difference between clip styles. What do I look for?

#13 pajaro

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 18:29

 

Some did...

Parker-0353.jpg

 

...but later ones didn't:

Parker-0215.jpg

 

If the cap has a 45-style clip, then it's a Super 21.  A 51 Special... um, should, I think... say so on its filler housing, and both had the Octanium point.

Or you might have a 51 saying " 51 SPECIAL" that has a 14K nib, Lustraloy cap and gray cap jewel.

 

I have seen quite a few 21s, never one like the gray one.  That looks different from a 51 clutch ring anyway.


Edited by pajaro, 18 April 2014 - 18:31.

"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

#14 Florida Blue

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 21:30

At a casual glance I can't tell the difference between clip styles. What do I look for?

 

The 51 arrow is much more detailed and is three dimensional. The 21 Super and 45 clip has the detail stamped into the clip. Also, a 21 Super doesn't have a pearl or black cap jewel. The jewels on the 21 Super are either convex or concave steel.

 

 

If the cap has a 45-style clip, then it's a Super 21.  A 51 Special... um, should, I think... say so on its filler housing, and both had the Octanium point.

 

Or you might have a 51 saying " 51 SPECIAL" that has a 14K nib, Lustraloy cap and gray cap jewel.

 

That's true. In 1957, Parker discontinued the 51 Special and replaced it with the 51 "Standard." Originally, the features were exactly the same, but in the early 1960s they changed the polished steel cap to a Lustraloy cap. In the mid 1960s, they gave it a 14k gold nib and pearl cap jewel, but it still retained the open hoop filler with "51 Special" etched on it all that time.

 

I still think the OPs pen is a 21 Super though.


Edited by Florida Blue, 19 April 2014 - 01:18.

Parker: Sonnet Flighter, Rialto Red Metallic Laque, IM Premium Chiseled Gunmetal, Latitude Stainless, 45 Black, Duovac Blue Pearl Striped, 51 Standard Black, 21 Super Red, Vac Jr. Black, 51 MK1 Black, 51 Vac Blue Cedar, Duofold Jr. Lapis, 51 MK1 Demi Black, 51 MK1 Demi Teal, 51 MK1 Navy Gray, Duofold Pastel Moire Violet, Vac Major Golden Brown, Vac Deb. Emerald, 51 Vac Dove Gray, Vac Major Azure, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, 51 Vac Black GF Cap, 51 Forest Green GF cap, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, Duovac Senior Green & Gold, Duovac Sub. Deb. Black.

#15 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 00:24

I think you are correct.

#16 Mike 59

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 12:27

Hi, Here is a '51' for comparison, the clip has a more detailed arrow and 'feathers'.

  Also there is a band around the lower edge of the cap, as mentioned in the posts above.

 This one has the Aerometric filler, nib is 14K broad, with 'Made in England' on the cap, and the date of manufacture is around 1959-1962-ish I have been told.

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  • Parker_51_aero.jpg

Edited by Mike 59, 19 April 2014 - 12:42.


#17 betweenthelens

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 12:34

Nice finds!



#18 Scribblesoften

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 13:24

As Ernst said, the model name is usually found on the filler housing. Could you post a picture of the pen with the barrel removed showing the filling mechanism?

#19 Ernst Bitterman

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 14:08

Or you might have a 51 saying " 51 SPECIAL" that has a 14K nib, Lustraloy cap and gray cap jewel.

 

I have seen quite a few 21s, never one like the gray one.  That looks different from a 51 clutch ring anyway.

 

I was a little nonplussed the first time I ran into one, too, so I questioned it aloud here and was told it was the norm for the later Super 21.  I've seen a few since (not being a great pursuer of the 21, and few people seeking service for them), and it is consistent.  You're right that it's not quite the same spec as the 51, as it is more recessed into the joint.


Edited by Ernst Bitterman, 19 April 2014 - 14:14.

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#20 Florida Blue

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 21:59

 

I was a little nonplussed the first time I ran into one, too, so I questioned it aloud here and was told it was the norm for the later Super 21.  I've seen a few since (not being a great pursuer of the 21, and few people seeking service for them), and it is consistent.  You're right that it's not quite the same spec as the 51, as it is more recessed into the joint.

 

My 21 Super was one of the NOS 21s from the great Peyton Street Pens horde and it has the recessed clutch ring and an indented cap jewel. I believe these were mid 1960s 21 Supers.


Parker: Sonnet Flighter, Rialto Red Metallic Laque, IM Premium Chiseled Gunmetal, Latitude Stainless, 45 Black, Duovac Blue Pearl Striped, 51 Standard Black, 21 Super Red, Vac Jr. Black, 51 MK1 Black, 51 Vac Blue Cedar, Duofold Jr. Lapis, 51 MK1 Demi Black, 51 MK1 Demi Teal, 51 MK1 Navy Gray, Duofold Pastel Moire Violet, Vac Major Golden Brown, Vac Deb. Emerald, 51 Vac Dove Gray, Vac Major Azure, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, 51 Vac Black GF Cap, 51 Forest Green GF cap, Vac Jr. Silver Pearl, Duovac Senior Green & Gold, Duovac Sub. Deb. Black.

#21 pajaro

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 22:40

If you unscrew the section, what does the filler say?

 

Whatever it says, Amen.


"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

#22 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 23:09

As Ernst said, the model name is usually found on the filler housing. Could you post a picture of the pen with the barrel removed showing the filling mechanism?


I studied the filler housing, nothing written there except instructions. The pen, however, really does seem to be the Super 21, which I've heard is prone to hood shrinkage.

#23 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 23:19

 

My 21 Super was one of the NOS 21s from the great Peyton Street Pens horde and it has the recessed clutch ring and an indented cap jewel. I believe these were mid 1960s 21 Supers.

 

Funny how some retail deals like that "live in history".

 

Back in '98 the first monochrome Garmin StreetPilot was $500. Staples had an internal corporate saboteur.  They were indiscriminately going into the corporate pricing program and marking items down to around .10 on the dollar. They marked the StreetPilot down to $139.99.  It hit some GPS forum about 7 in the morning, by 9 it had made it to the Long Distance (motorcycle) Rider's forum. These people ride 1000 miles For Dinner.  Needless to say IT hit the fan.

In about 24 hrs major GPS sellers had notified Garmin, apparently the price was So Low it violated Garmin corporate pricing policies and Garmin had directed all Staples to return ALL Garmin Streetpilots to Garmin. It took about 36 hrs before the news to kill the deal made it to all the stores. 

 

Just the LDR List managed to buy $73,000 dollars worth of StreetPilot's first.  I bought 3 myself, one for me, 2 for out of state friends. People still mention that deal now and then.

 

I sure people will remember the P-21 and Eversharp flex/stub hordes at PSP pens for awhile too.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl







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