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Chinese Models With Extra Fine Nibs


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#1 ukini

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 14:29

Hello!

 

I'm looking for a decent pen with extra fine nib.

 

Currently I own Lamy Safari with EF nib, but as far as I know, Asian EF would be thinner.

 

I'm translating technical drawings right now, I found that it is faster to write by hand the translation and scan the drawing instead of adding translation strings to the drawing by a graphic design software.

 

But I realized that Lamy EF is not thin enough.

 

From this thread http://www.fountainp...xtra-fine-nibs/ I found out that Japanese Big Three makers are what I'm looking for. But I'd like to try Chinese models as well.

 

I was wondering if you could recommend some makers and models with EF nib (Asian EF), with decent quality for everyday writing?

 

Of course, I will go through this excellent forum, but you understand that it will take time and trial to build my own knowledge base, so I'm asking for quick tips.

 

Thanks again!



#2 KBeezie

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:20

There's quite a few out there especially if you look at hooded nibs, as when they say 'fine' they're more like extra fine or extra extra fine. Like the Jinhao 611 I had would have been finer than my Jowo-made (German) extra fine nib. 

 

Older writing sample, some chinese ones in there. Any of the Goulet Nibs are Jowo-made which is more along the line of western standard, but course some chinese nibs follow western standards, like Jinhao Medium nibs for larger pens like X750, X450, 159, etc tend to be the same as western mediums.But the hooded nibs, tend to run on the smaller side. 

samples_mar21_600dpi.jpg

 

but yes, chinese models can be a bit erratic since the pen can either be more like a Japanese standard or more like a Western Standard when they label fine, medium, etc. I just noticed the smaller pens, especially if the nib is hooded, tends to match the Japanese standards, and the larger open nibs, the western. 

 

edit: in case you didn't already now, "Japanese Standard" tends to run finer, that is to say, a Japanese "Fine" is likely the equivalent of Western "Extra fine" (or extra-extra fine in some cases). But like I said, with China, it can be all over the place. 


Edited by KBeezie, 06 April 2014 - 19:24.


#3 Kansas Pen

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 21:29

I recently received some Hero 9296 Accounting Extra Fine pens.They are a slim profile that will fit very well into a journal without bulging out the side. They have a semi shrouded nib which provides a good visual indication of where the nib tip is at.

I bought one for $3.99 including shipping from New Jersey. I got it - inked it and loved it. It writes very well. I ordered it on 2/25  and received it in Kansas on 3/4 - quickly I thought.

 

I was very impressed with the smoothness of the nib and flow of such a fine nib. The nib was perfect.I did do the flush and soak with a couple drops of dish detergent from a pan of water. This helps to clear the nib and convertor of any manufacturing oils or sediments. 

 

Please note they come with a convertor the channel where the convertor sits is very narrow and does not accommodate the "normal international convertor".

 

I was so impressed that I ordered five more on 3/7 (for $15.00 on an offer basis incl prepaid shipping) and received them Saturday March 15th.

I have three of them inked 1st in black Waterman, 2nd in Blue Aurora, 3rd in Green Waterman.

 

I did choose to adjust the 2nd one. I did not flush and soak like I should have (make sure you do as it will make your usage perfectly easy). The Aurora blue was getting a little dry so I both refilled after a new flush and tweaked the nib ever so slightly (spread tines ever so slightly). It works perfectly now. It also writes a little wider which is what I wanted for the notebook I have it in.

All three are in different notepads / journal that I segregate for different uses. This fineness of nib works very well and does not soak or feather since the nib is so precise. All are very smooth and void of scratchiness. Amazing at this price. I think the semi shroud on the nibs make them easier to produce with good alignment etc. 

 

The worst you can be out if you don't like them is around $4.00.

No affiliation to the seller except satisfaction on his service.

 

Here is link so you can look at the pen (again please note this is a slim pen - but makes perfect sense for its very fine nib):

I see he has one going off in 2 hrs for one piece @ 3.67. So I'll give you the link where he is shipping 5 for the grand total of $8.99. (I am tempted to buy 5 more for "backup").

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item1e89a4a153

 

the seller is millionshare if this link does not work or search Hero 9296 on eBay for any other sellers. There are several. I think they are all shipping out of a processor whse in Jersey.


Edited by Kansas Pen, 06 April 2014 - 21:31.


#4 WirsPlm

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:18

Try the old style Hero 329 (with the Star Trek type swoosh at the tip, I think isellpens.com still has some), they're much better quality than the typical 616 and the mine writes very finely, between my Pilot F and EF.

#5 ARbldr

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:36

The Hero 9296 is a great fine pen, I believe they claim a .38mm nib on those.  I have a few, and they have been good writers.  Everything Kansas Pen says.  One note about a lot of these chinese pens, generally when you look around aliexpress, they note the size of the nib in mm, this is a good way to get an idea of how fine the nib is when comparing to other known chinese pens.

 

Now, I know you asked about chinese pens, but pick up a Pilot Penmanship ($8-9), the EF nib on that one is phenomenal.  If you end up liking the nib, but want a nicer pen, the nib fits and works well on the Metropolitan.  That said, I don't find the Penmanship to be a bad pen.  With that said, the nib lays down a great extremely fine line, you can write like you would do with a mechanical pencil.



#6 ukini

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:00

Great!

 

Thank you all for your valuable input.

 

Yes, substituting Penmanship nib in Metropolitan is on my agenda as well.

 

So, I think, I will go several routes in parallel -- try Chinese and Japanese fountain pens, and maybe move to a higher end Japanese afterwards. Also, I saw a whole section of extremely fine technical pens from Rotring and some Japanese manufacturers, not fountain pens, but I'd like to give them a try.

 

Thanks again, and I'll try to keep you updated on my search.



#7 jeffkoch

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:54

I was on a similar quest last year.  I agree with the comments on the Hero 329.  A couple more that I thought were outstanding: Duke 600, Hero 605 Liseur, Kaigelu 360 , Kaigelu 352, Picasso 916, and Picasso 919.



#8 KBeezie

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:15

Great!

 

Thank you all for your valuable input.

 

Yes, substituting Penmanship nib in Metropolitan is on my agenda as well.

 

So, I think, I will go several routes in parallel -- try Chinese and Japanese fountain pens, and maybe move to a higher end Japanese afterwards. Also, I saw a whole section of extremely fine technical pens from Rotring and some Japanese manufacturers, not fountain pens, but I'd like to give them a try.

 

Thanks again, and I'll try to keep you updated on my search.

 

By the way I came accross this PDF Though I Don't have all the same chinese pens inked anymore this was the latest scan I did with them marked near the sample strokes. (that platinum can get 0.1 if you're light on the touch). 

 

gp_sp_stroke.jpg



#9 jeffkoch

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:20

I was on a similar quest last year.  I agree with the comments on the Hero 329.  A couple more that I thought were outstanding: Duke 600, Hero 605 Liseur, Kaigelu 360 , Kaigelu 352, Picasso 916, and Picasso 919.

I notice that the Picasso 919 is available with different nibs from different vendors.  My above recommendation refers to the version with the hooded nib.  To wi:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170672283796



#10 terim

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 15:09

You'll get an extra fine line with the Duke pens with Chinese calligraphy aka fude nibs .... Of course you have the flip them over.

These nibs are on a variety of the Duke pens ..... Rhyme Star and 209 come to mind.

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#11 WirsPlm

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 18:10

Great!
 
Thank you all for your valuable input.
 
Yes, substituting Penmanship nib in Metropolitan is on my agenda as well.
 
So, I think, I will go several routes in parallel -- try Chinese and Japanese fountain pens, and maybe move to a higher end Japanese afterwards. Also, I saw a whole section of extremely fine technical pens from Rotring and some Japanese manufacturers, not fountain pens, but I'd like to give them a try.
 
Thanks again, and I'll try to keep you updated on my search.


I really like my technical pens but be aware that they're even more finicky than fountain pens and you really need to be careful with them, they're easier to damage and they're expensive to fix or replace (and harder to use effectively), that said I like mine alot it's like having colored pencils in whatever color I want.

#12 ukini

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 18:36

Thank you very much for great advice!

 

Thus far I ordered Pilot 78G, Sheaffer Imperial II EF, and couple of uni pens. I know, there is nothing Chinese here yet, but right now I'm just testing delivery times and my local postal service.

 

I found some Hero clones and other interesting Chinese pens per your suggestion.

 

Interesting thing is my 9 and 6 year old sons starting to be interested in FP. My Lamy Safari is on their hands.



#13 ukini

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:48

Hello everyone!

 

Yesterday I received Pilot 78G fountain pen and Uni pin drawing pen with 0.1 mm tip.

 

From what I tested, Pilot is as fine and Uni Pin. And considerably finer than my Lamy Safari extra fine.

 

I'm still waiting for my Shaeffer and I'd like to try Chinese pens as well. 



#14 KBeezie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 20:03

Hello everyone!

 

Yesterday I received Pilot 78G fountain pen and Uni pin drawing pen with 0.1 mm tip.

 

From what I tested, Pilot is as fine and Uni Pin. And considerably finer than my Lamy Safari extra fine.

 

I'm still waiting for my Shaeffer and I'd like to try Chinese pens as well. 

 

If you got the 78G with a "Medium" Nib, then it's the equivalent of a Western/German "Fine". (Where as 'fine', would be the equiv of a W/G extra fine). 

 

Other than smaller hooded nib Chinese pens most of them seem to go more towards the western sizing of medium or larger. WingSung 233, Hero 616, Jinhao 611, etc have been either fine or extra fine for me (in some cases a little finer than western extra-fine). 

 

:P for some reason some of the vintage 'fine' pens I've received seem to be much finer than western standards, despite being a western brand themselves. 



#15 ukini

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:39

Actually, my new Pilot 78G has a Fine nib. It is such a wonderful experience writing with fine nib.

 

I feel that 78G is a little too light a pen, I need something more heavier. Even my Lamy Safari is kinda heavier. I'm waiting Shaeffer right now, maybe if it is OK, than I'll might stop my pursuit with FP for now -- if it is Fine enough and bulky/heavy enough.

 

Otherwise I'll try hooded Chinese and move to (apparently more expensive) Japanese models.



#16 KBeezie

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:16

Actually, my new Pilot 78G has a Fine nib. It is such a wonderful experience writing with fine nib.

 

I feel that 78G is a little too light a pen, I need something more heavier. Even my Lamy Safari is kinda heavier. I'm waiting Shaeffer right now, maybe if it is OK, than I'll might stop my pursuit with FP for now -- if it is Fine enough and bulky/heavy enough.

 

Otherwise I'll try hooded Chinese and move to (apparently more expensive) Japanese models.

 

If it's labeled as fine, then yea it's 'japanese fine', which is an extra-fine on most western brands. 

 

Get a Pilot Metropolitan and swap the nib (or if you got a black 78G, just swap the whole section+feed+nib)


Edited by KBeezie, 23 April 2014 - 07:17.


#17 lovemy51

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 05:37

i have not read all the posts, but i would recommend the Hero 329 -the model is called "fine line".

 

329_three_zpsc4f8236e.jpg


Edited by lovemy51, 25 April 2014 - 05:37.

Lovemy51 Posted Image




pleese, forgeeve my bad espelling!! Posted Image

#18 dcwaites

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 00:36

I was going to suggest one of the new model Hero 329s, pictured above. It has a noticeably finer nib than its older sibling, the 329 with the hood ornament.

 

If you can find any of the Guanleming 2000 or 2001 series, they also have a very fine nib.



Posted Image



#19 Edwaroth

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:19

I am only speaking from experience...If you want a very fine line, Japanese nibs are the way to go. I have several Chinese pens, both Hero and Picasso, all have fine nibs and all are as wide or wider than my Pelikan or Lamy 2000's in EF. I have never seen or heard of EF nibs on Chinese pens. Chinese nibs are NOT the same as Japanese! Honestly, the only true EF Chinese nib is from TWSBI...and one of the sweetest around.


Edited by Edwaroth, 30 April 2014 - 01:26.


#20 KBeezie

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 02:49

I am only speaking from experience...If you want a very fine line, Japanese nibs are the way to go. I have several Chinese pens, both Hero and Picasso, all have fine nibs and all are as wide or wider than my Pelikan or Lamy 2000's in EF. I have never seen or heard of EF nibs on Chinese pens. Chinese nibs are NOT the same as Japanese! Honestly, the only true EF Chinese nib is from TWSBI...and one of the sweetest around.

 

The Jinhao 611 and Hero 616 begs to differ and I've actually heard people complain that TWSBI ran a bit too large for them. 

 

For the purpose of comparison, the TWSBI EF nibs appear to be around the size of a German/Jowo Fine and Extra Fine depending on pen model. 

 

fpn_1398825872__twsbi_nib_compare.jpg

An old write sample with both the H616 and Jinhao 611 in there (with the Goulet [Jowo/German-Made] Extra-fine near the top). 

 

rhodia5x5dotpad_front_rescan_s.jpg



#21 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 19:21

Then there's THIS... which looks to be needle-fine, though QC may be hit or miss.

#22 KBeezie

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 22:37

Then there's THIS... which looks to be needle-fine, though QC may be hit or miss.

Yea that looks like a thicker version of the Jinhao 611 I had. But it's not quite needle-fine, I got a few pens that do a finer line than those (MB225, Sheaffer Touchdown with an Accounting nib, Platinum PTL-5000, Pilot Elite EF, etc). The 611 in my write sample above is about the same as what that  599 would produce. (Far as I can tell they mainly use 3 nibs on all their models, the same #5 style, plated or not, the same #6 style, plated or not, and the hooded style like in the 599 and 611, it's mainly the body that changes with each of their Jinhao or Baoer models)


Edited by KBeezie, 30 April 2014 - 22:38.


#23 PingleiHe

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 20:33

The Hero 329 fine version would be good.



#24 jeffkoch

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 03:37

I am only speaking from experience...If you want a very fine line, Japanese nibs are the way to go. I have several Chinese pens, both Hero and Picasso, all have fine nibs and all are as wide or wider than my Pelikan or Lamy 2000's in EF. I have never seen or heard of EF nibs on Chinese pens. Chinese nibs are NOT the same as Japanese! Honestly, the only true EF Chinese nib is from TWSBI...and one of the sweetest around.

I'll grant that the examples I list in my post above are not as fine as an EF Pilot or an EF or UEF Platinum.  But they are much finer than the Pelikan, Lamy , or TWSBI nibs. 

 

The TWSBI EF is not particularly fine.  But it is marked EF -- is that what you're contending? If your point is that Chinese pens are not marked EF, that is true, by and large.  However, it is then perhaps worth noting that the TWSBI nib is not Chinese. 



#25 ukini

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 03:27

I bought so far Pilot 78G, Hero 329 with an arrow on hood, and an aviator Hero 338.

 

They produce quite extra fine lines.

 

My concern is with Hero 338.

 

1. When cupped and uncapped it seems to leak some ink (the inside of cap and the hood would have some ink on them). I'm carrying it right now and try to be careful, just to find out the reasons...

2. The clip on the metal cap is moving sideways, is there any remedy?

 

Thank you very much!

 

And I definitely want to try some Japanese models. I have a feeling that my Pilot 78G is the one that produces most finer lines from all the batch.



#26 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 13:25

Is the 338 a squeeze filler with a metal tube on the fill mechanism? If so, they will often 'spit up' when overfilled. It may be simple as that.

Or, if the cap is a tight fit, removing the cap may 'pull' some ink that will then collect inside when the cap is put back on. In time this ink builds up.

Hope this helps. Let us know how it goes.

#27 ukini

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 07:01

So, I want to summarize my quest for a Extra Fine affordable pen.

 

I tried Hero 329 and Pilot 78G. Although they seem to have very close thin lines, I prefer Plot 78G. First of all, I found hooded nib a little clumsy to write with. Also, Hero 329 seems to be a little dry when writing fast, for example doing signatures; it feels like the ink will skip.

 

On the other hand, simple cap on Hero is more convenient.

 

And I suspect that 78G model has a nib marked as fine, not extra fine, I mean, there is room to grow.

 

Overall, after trying both Japanese and Chinese pens, I'd like to move to a more premium Japanese pens -- although Pilot 78G is a nice pen, it shows its simpler nature.



#28 Sailor Kenshin

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 14:16

Sailor! Widest range of stock nibs, and you won't believe how wet an XF nib can be.

#29 KBeezie

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 13:34

So, I want to summarize my quest for a Extra Fine affordable pen.

 

I tried Hero 329 and Pilot 78G. Although they seem to have very close thin lines, I prefer Plot 78G. First of all, I found hooded nib a little clumsy to write with. Also, Hero 329 seems to be a little dry when writing fast, for example doing signatures; it feels like the ink will skip.

 

On the other hand, simple cap on Hero is more convenient.

 

And I suspect that 78G model has a nib marked as fine, not extra fine, I mean, there is room to grow.

 

Overall, after trying both Japanese and Chinese pens, I'd like to move to a more premium Japanese pens -- although Pilot 78G is a nice pen, it shows its simpler nature.

 

The 78G's fine is 'marked' fine, but it's the equivalent to a western Extra-Fine. (unless you were going for a Japanese Extra-Fine, which is the Pilot Penmanship, and the nib is interchangeable with a 78G, metropolitan, etc). 

 

You might actually like the metropolitan (aka MR, Cocoon) which has a similar nib tot the 78G (can take the same nib from a 78G), comes in either medium or fine. Metal body with a click-on cap and still relatively inexpensive (around $15 USD for the Metropolitan that takes Pilot cartridge/converter).

If you want to go up on the price a bit, there are the Pilot Vanishing Point, Pilot Falcon, and Platinum Century 3776 that can be purchased with an extra-fine (The last one even has an ultra-extra-fine available, though the falcon line is all soft nibs [some flex] with Soft Extra-Fine being available). 


Edited by KBeezie, 11 July 2014 - 13:37.


#30 ukini

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:46

Thank you very much! For your replies!

 

I'm pondering on getting Platinum 3776 or something in that price range. But I want a little heavier pen, my 78G is around 13 grams, maybe 25-30 gram alternative.

 

 

 

Also, what do you think about vintage pens for extra-fine? Maybe Sheaffer or similar.

 

I mean, if the pen is nice one, it should be enough for years, and I don't want to collect several ones because I won't be using them much.

Because of this I want to see my options (either Japanese, or vintage ones, or a custom nib).