Jump to content






Dearest Friends and Visitors of the Fountain Pen Network,
We have started implementing the changes we promised here: Upcoming Changes To FPN
Please do read the linked message above.









Photo

Qc Issue With M1000 Nib And Dissatisfaction With Initial Response By Pelikan


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#31 Bo Bo Olson

Bo Bo Olson

    Ancient Artifact

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,338 posts
  • Location:Germany

Posted 08 April 2014 - 09:45

I've only tried that giant 1000 in a B&M...some get nibs that are very nice and springy....the one I tried had a semi-flex nib.

I have some 26 so think I know the feeling.

Modern Pelikan nibs are the semi-nail 400/600 or the nail 800.

 

the 200 has more of the '83-97 M400 feel.

 

Try a medium long 400NN with a 'flexi/maxi-semi-flex nib some time....a real nib.

A 140 or any of the '50's pens in semi-flex are the better more fun nibs.


Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#32 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 08 April 2014 - 14:31

2. Why didnt they just simply change and give the op a new nib, simple :-)

Based on the reply I received from Pelikan, it seems my dealer did not request correctly what I asked. Even though my specific request originally was a replacement of this defective nib, they requested Pelikan "repair" the nib.  I have no idea why the dealer sent such a request.  I checked my email to the dealer and I can see clearly I littered my request with "replacement" and "replace." 

 

So, Pelikan said they would've accepted my original request if they heard that from the dealer originally. So, in a way, the dealer miscommunicated to Pelikan in this instance. 

 

In regard to the space between the nib and feed, Pelikan said that is how M1000 nibs are designed. So, that is good to know.  Interestingly, my older M1000 F does not have such space between the nib and feed, however.  This space thing may become the norm with the recent M1000 iterations. 


My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#33 Tadeyev

Tadeyev

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 08 April 2014 - 16:49

Correct me if I have missed something already stated, but as far as I can see there is still nothing said about how the pen wrote or writes presently.

Crooked or straight slit, with or without space between nib and feed - does it write - or not?

 

After reading about your pen for 2 pages now, I have become most curious about the results....

 

Good luck

Tadeyev


Edited by Tadeyev, 08 April 2014 - 16:51.


#34 Albinoni

Albinoni

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Location:Perth, Western Australia
  • Flag:

Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:45

Regardless of how the pen writes is pointless, if you bought a brand new Mercedes from a car dealer and it came with scratches would you accept it, I don't think so but hey again it will still drive wouldn't it.

#35 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:03

Regardless of how the pen writes is pointless, if you bought a brand new Mercedes from a car dealer and it came with scratches would you accept it, I don't think so but hey again it will still drive wouldn't it.

You are right on the mark. For the top line model of Pelikan product such as the M1000, the customer can expect perfection. In that sense, I am a perfectionist.  

 

For example, when I pick up my Montblanc from the boutique after the regular maintenance, I check the nib with my loupe before I leave the store. 


Edited by Pen2009, 10 April 2014 - 10:03.

My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#36 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:52

A quick update. I am expecting my M1000 with the newly replaced EF nib tomorrow. Stay tuned on the result.  


My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#37 Penryn87

Penryn87

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 22 posts
  • Location:Georgia
  • Flag:

Posted 30 April 2014 - 12:25

Not what you want to hear I know but Pelikan are getting themselves quite a poor reputation for the delivered state of their nibs.

 

 

 

Pelikan's are great pens, but if you are going to buy one, you have to get one from Binder or Mottishaw.

 

I was in a local store recently and apparently Pelikan has changed their USA repair policies. 2 years ago I had a fantastic experience. I broke my M400 in a drier and the sent me a new pen for free. He told me to know expect that again.

 

Frankly the gold on the nib alone will likely net them a profit. IDK if Pelikan does their own metal fabrication or not, but the gold itself is likely worth just giving you a new nibs!


Edited by Penryn87, 30 April 2014 - 12:28.


#38 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:33

I am very pleased with the outcome. The wait was worth it.  Pelikan replaced the defective nib with the perfect one.  I checked the nib with my loupe and tines are perfectly aligned, as they should be.  

 

Not yet tested with ink. But, from what I can see with the loupe, I don't expect the issues with the nib.  

 

IMG_4736_zps77f8794e.jpg

IMG_4737_zpsc543100a.jpg

IMG_4738_zps6a3348ba.jpg

IMG_4739_zpsaba76d98.jpg

IMG_4740_zpsc433b8ec.jpg

IMG_4741_zpsa527abd6.jpg


My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#39 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,075 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:39

fpn_1398940739__img_4739_zpsaba76d98.jpg



#40 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:59

fpn_1398940739__img_4739_zpsaba76d98.jpg

You have the eagle's eyes.:)

I washed the nib and the plastic crumb is gone now. When I saw your post, I was concerned about the worst.  But, it seems this is my lucky day.


My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#41 hari317

hari317

    Classic

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,075 posts
  • Location:Mumbai, INDIA
  • Flag:

Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:08

You have the eagle's eyes. :)

I washed the nib and the plastic crumb is gone now. When I saw your post, I was concerned about the worst.  But, it seems this is my lucky day.

all's well that ends well. well done on demanding satisfaction and see Pelikan have delivered. good!



#42 Sblakers

Sblakers

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 891 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 01 May 2014 - 17:31

What ever happened to "the customer is always right"?

I find the above statement in quotes a lost sentiment, much like the words honor and valor or gentleman. Depressing when you get down to it.


Add-- well bravo to pelikan. Guess they do follow the notion that the customer is always right--/ good to hear

Edited by Sblakers, 01 May 2014 - 17:34.


#43 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 01 May 2014 - 22:56

What ever happened to "the customer is always right"?

I find the above statement in quotes a lost sentiment, much like the words honor and valor or gentleman. Depressing when you get down to it.


Add-- well bravo to pelikan. Guess they do follow the notion that the customer is always right--/ good to hear

Exactly.  Even though the first try by Pelikan failed due to the retailer's miscommunication, the 2nd try generated the result I have been asking them to do, which is the nib replacement (not tinkering with the defective nib).

 

I did take an extra step by contacting Pelikan directly by informing them that the 1st attempt has failed as they did not replace the nib. From that reply from Pelikan, I learned the retailer was at fault as he sent my M1000 to "repair" the nib, instead of "replace" the nib. 

 

For the top model from the regular production line up, I simply could not compromise on perfection of the product I purchased.  For that matter, even Pelikan's M200 line should be manufactured perfectly as that model is not that cheap.


Edited by Pen2009, 01 May 2014 - 22:57.

My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#44 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 03 May 2014 - 09:46

The final update:

I am using this pen with Iroshizuku Takesumi.  Finally, the pen and its nib have delivered the writing pleasure and performance, to say the least.  This nib does not have the empty space against the feed. I believe the fact I raised this point with Pelikan made sure the replacement nib is the new stock, not the defective new stock. I paid for this pen on Feb 11th. After back and forth with the reseller/Pelikan, I got the pen back with the replacement nib on May 1st. 


Edited by Pen2009, 03 May 2014 - 13:25.

My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#45 Paul80

Paul80

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,242 posts
  • Location:Kent, England
  • Flag:

Posted 03 May 2014 - 10:26

Hi

 

Glad you got there in the end, just a shame you had to go through so much to get what should have been done by the shop you bought it from as soon as you reported the fault, They should have swapped the defective nib and then handled the replacement themselves, after all it was the shop that sold the defective pen, Pelikan just supplied it to the shop.

 

I don't know what consumer law is like in America but in the UK its the Seller not the suppler that has to put thing right, they then have to go to their supplier for reimbursement of their costs.

 

Paul



#46 lowfiwhiteguy

lowfiwhiteguy

    Extra-Fine Nib Supremacist

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • Location:St John's, Dominion of Newfoundland
  • Flag:

Posted 07 May 2014 - 16:47

Let me just say I've owned and traded several M1000s in my time, and this is unfortunately more common than a lot of people think.



#47 Flounder

Flounder

    Forum Moderate

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,732 posts
  • Location:Glasgow, Scotland

Posted 07 May 2014 - 18:49

The final update:

I am using this pen with Iroshizuku Takesumi.

 

You mean "Pelikan Konigsblau", right?


Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : Parker 51 Pen Tube PIF


#48 GTOZack

GTOZack

    ah that Deaf guy.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 797 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 08 May 2014 - 19:26

i have same issue with my M800,  i sent to pendleton brown to reground into a cursive italic fine. It was better MUCH better . however the slit remained offcenter.   i try to ignore it. 


'The Yo-Yo maneuver is very difficult to explain. It was first perfected by the well-known Chinese fighter pilot Yo-Yo Noritake. He also found it difficult to explain, being quite devoid of English.

So we left it at that. He showed us the maneuver after a sort.  B*****d stole my kill.'

                                                                                                        -Squadron Leader K. G. Holland, RAF. WWII China.


#49 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 11 May 2014 - 07:54

i have same issue with my M800,  i sent to pendleton brown to reground into a cursive italic fine. It was better MUCH better . however the slit remained offcenter.   i try to ignore it. 

But, once you know it is there, can you really try to ingore its existance?  I could not unsee what I have seen.


My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#50 bbs

bbs

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 591 posts
  • Location:Near Sevenoaks, Kent
  • Flag:

Posted 12 May 2014 - 11:26

You are right on the mark. For the top line model of Pelikan product such as the M1000, the customer can expect perfection. In that sense, I am a perfectionist.  
 
For example, when I pick up my Montblanc from the boutique after the regular maintenance, I check the nib with my loupe before I leave the store.


Hmm, wish I'd done this. Just noticed that my serviced MB Fitzgerald has a major ding on the side of the nib, flattening it. I'll take it back to them this week and see what they say ..... Of course, I can't prove it wasn't done after I collected it, but there's no way that could have happened.

#51 Pen2009

Pen2009

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,509 posts
  • Location:Asia
  • Flag:

Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:02

Hmm, wish I'd done this. Just noticed that my serviced MB Fitzgerald has a major ding on the side of the nib, flattening it. I'll take it back to them this week and see what they say ..... Of course, I can't prove it wasn't done after I collected it, but there's no way that could have happened.

I learned my hard lesson on that with MB. The main reason I ended up replacing the original M with the OM on my 146 was the MB boutique dented the edge of the nib after the maintenance service. After that, I use my loupe to inspect the pen at the time of pick up. If you are dealing with an item worth more than USD 300 (for that matter, even USD 100), I will make sure there is no surprise.  I don't want any such surprises at all.  


Edited by Pen2009, 13 May 2014 - 09:02.

My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#52 GTOZack

GTOZack

    ah that Deaf guy.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 797 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 14 May 2014 - 21:38

But, once you know it is there, can you really try to ingore its existance?  I could not unsee what I have seen.

that is true,  when i write it normally, its perfect, wet, and beautiful, pendleton brown really did his magic.  When i flip it upside down it writes very fat broad lines with hint of scratchiness  because of a lopsided iridium tipping, very similar to OP but, it dont look like a wart on its side though.   after a while im used to it.  

  before the custom tip, it was pretty bad that i began to wonder if the pelikan guy was in a hurry pushing nibs in machines with iridium spotwelder, spotting off center.  

 

perhaps its matter of how hot the weld was running, sure but, it stays in its liquid state well after the weld. thats why it looks lopsided. 

 

Maybe these lopsided nibs were spotwelded much later in the process where the welder was already running too hot.

 

 I dont know.  but QC should have noticed it and buffed it into shape before sending it off


'The Yo-Yo maneuver is very difficult to explain. It was first perfected by the well-known Chinese fighter pilot Yo-Yo Noritake. He also found it difficult to explain, being quite devoid of English.

So we left it at that. He showed us the maneuver after a sort.  B*****d stole my kill.'

                                                                                                        -Squadron Leader K. G. Holland, RAF. WWII China.


#53 bbs

bbs

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 591 posts
  • Location:Near Sevenoaks, Kent
  • Flag:

Posted 17 May 2014 - 00:58

I learned my hard lesson on that with MB. The main reason I ended up replacing the original M with the OM on my 146 was the MB boutique dented the edge of the nib after the maintenance service. After that, I use my loupe to inspect the pen at the time of pick up. If you are dealing with an item worth more than USD 300 (for that matter, even USD 100), I will make sure there is no surprise.  I don't want any such surprises at all.


Well, they're going to repair it without charge, so grateful thanks to MB. I shall be taking a loupe when I collect it though!

#54 Tadeyev

Tadeyev

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:18

......I know we expect perfection and at this price it is understandable but if that nib is within their production tolerances then you may not get what you want out of this and that I know will bug you until you sell the pen or get hold of a nib 

 

Just remember an off centre tine slit is quite common and can have no ill effect on the pens ability to be a pen.

 

If it writes as it should I would suggest putting your loupe away and just enjoy your pen, you will grow to hate it otherwise.

 

Paul

 

Indeed, well said at the beginning of this thread. 

You have the right to get your money's worth, and Pelikan should never forget to respect their clients. Accord.

 

However, in all honestly, if I used a loupe they way you do on my Leica's, Audi or Patek's, I would simply spend every day morose, as one can always find something to fret about (if they want to) because nothing is ever perfect, especially under that magnification.

 

Actually I  used to be like you in that sense, until I allowed myself to applaud the small inconsequential imperfections that make things interesting and singular - as long as they function accordingly, which is for me the bottom and most essential line of any product.

 

Tadeyev