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Qc Issue With M1000 Nib And Dissatisfaction With Initial Response By Pelikan


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#1 Pen2009

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 16:30

As my M1000's nib was with some manufacturing imperfection or defects, I returned it to the retailer for the warranty repair, with the specific request for the replacement of the nib. The repair took more than 3 weeks and what I received was a nib adjustment as the repair. I am very disappointed with this outcome and decided to escalate this again with the retailer and Pelikan itself.  If the pen is cheap, then, I will let it go. But, for the price range of the M1000 class fountain pens, I could not accept the repair less than the nib replacement. 

 

The nib failed on the following points. 

The slit is not in the middle of the nib. As you can see, the slit was somewhat slanted. Look at the triangle imprint on the nib in the picture. Also, the slit in the tipping material is not in the middle.  

IMG_4712_zpsd4039a71.jpg

IMG_4715_zpsfe9db28f.jpg

IMG_4714_zps4473ad1a.jpg

 

The tipping material is attached to the nib in a crooked way. 

It is difficult to see in the pix below. But, if you look real hard, you can see, the tipping material is attached in less than the perfect manner. 

IMG_4716_zpsdaed9650.jpg

 

There is some space between the nib and the feed. I can see the empty space from the breezer hole. The nib should rest on the feed perfectly without space. 

 

I am awaiting the reply from Pelikan. I hope they will do the right thing by replacing this defective nib with the new one. If they don't, this Pelikan will be my last purchase from this brand.  


My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#2 Randal6393

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 16:46

Question: Does the nib write properly?

 

Enjoy,


Yours,
Randal

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#3 Paul80

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 16:55

Hi

 

I know we expect perfection and at this price it is understandable but if that nib is within their production tolerances then you may not get what you want out of this and that I know will bug you until you sell the pen or get hold of a nib yourself and change it yourself.  It is an easy job on the M1000 as they just screw in and out.

 

Not what you want to hear I know but Pelikan are getting themselves quite a poor reputation for the delivered state of their nibs.

 

How does it write is what Pelikan will be looking at, if it writes fine they will send it back untouched. Don't know the relevant consumer law in America but you could try getting the dealer to refund you for it if you are allowed to reject it under your States laws.

 

Just remember an off centre tine slit is quite common and can have no ill effect on the pens ability to be a pen.

 

If it writes as it should I would suggest putting your loupe away and just enjoy your pen, you will grow to hate it otherwise.

 

Paul


Edited by Paul80, 05 April 2014 - 16:57.


#4 Ursus

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 16:59

I was thinking the same thing: How does it write? Minor details like that may not have any influence on the writing at all. I have seen far worse looking nibs that wrote very, very well.


Edited by Ursus, 05 April 2014 - 17:01.


#5 yamaha_no_46

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 17:42

Even if it writes well the owner has the right to ask for a nib replacement. 1 dollar pen also writes well but don't we pay top dollars for the aestethical aspects of high end pens? It's not a minor detail if you pay $600 for a pen. Would you accept scratches or dents on a brand new car thinking that it still drives well? My answer is, no!



#6 adamselene

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 17:48

The wonderful woman (I am chagrined that I don't remember her name) who handles Pel customer service for Chartpak in the USA handled my issues with no worries.


I think Pel is very generous in customer service in the USA, but I was very dissatisfied with Porsche, working with the same service person.


I think you could send the pen to a friend in USA, and they could deal with Chartpak. I didn't have, or need, a receipt.

Is your issue with Pel or the vendor do you think?

Edited by adamselene, 05 April 2014 - 17:55.


#7 Flounder

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:10

As off centre slits go, that's not too bad, cosmetically speaking. It is unfortunate that the nib decoration emphasises the flaw.

 

If this was my pen, it is the tipping I would be concerned about,. On how many planes is the slit off centre? Does it go straight down the middle of the tipping ball, or is it at a diagonal? I can't see the 'crooked' iridium attachment you refer to, most likely because of the way shooting through a loupe distorts anything not bang in the middle of the shot. can you describe it? Basically, you are more likely to get a replacement nib if you can demonstrate something that will limit functionality.

 

 

This is not to poo-poo your aesthetic concerns, especially at this price point, I agree with Paul.



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#8 shuuemura

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:59

It's too bad that you got a Pelikan nib which has an off-centered slit. Your case for a nib replacement would be even stronger if it writes badly as well.

 

The problem of off-centered slits isn't too uncommon. Here is my Waterman Exception nib with an extremely off-centered slit. The original medium nib had baby bottom issues as well, so I sent it off to get retipped to a 1.1mm stub. 

 

The pen itself had some cosmetic issues (lacquer in the cap cracked within two weeks of purchase) and Newell-Rubbermaid replaced the cap and barrel for free under warranty. 

 

13649202713_7520006296_b.jpg



#9 Pen2009

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:30

If I compare this nib with my other Pelikans (M1000's F, M800's EF, M600's EF and etc), this M1000-EF's issues are the first for me. As the tipping point is slightly scrooked and slit is not in the middle, it writes wider than usual for Pel's EF nib. As each tine's tipping point is not equal in size, this is an exepcted result. For an EF nib, the precision manufacturing is expected (at least in my book).

 

From the nib side up, the slit is slanted toward left, while the tipping point is slanted toward left as well.

 

As I could not make myself unknown on those issues, my take on the writing feel has already been affected negatively. The sounds the nib makes seem louder.... The slight feedback seems to be more pronounced than my other Pelikans.....  

 

Here is the rough illustration of the nib.

IMG_4717_zps8c235f86.jpg

 

As an apt analogy, this is like buying a brand new luxaury car. Upon delivery, the bumper and hood are misaligned and the dealer is telling me he has repainted some parts of the car. Would you accept this?  In case case, it is resounding no. 


Edited by Pen2009, 06 April 2014 - 01:42.

My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#10 GutSchrift

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:01

Honestly, I don't see a problem here.
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#11 fljones3

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:32

As my M1000's nib was with some manufacturing imperfection or defects, I returned it to the retailer for the warranty repair, with the specific request for the replacement of the nib. The repair took more than 3 weeks and what I received was a nib adjustment as the repair. I am very disappointed with this outcome and decided to escalate this again with the retailer and Pelikan itself.  If the pen is cheap, then, I will let it go. But, for the price range of the M1000 class fountain pens, I could not accept the repair less than the nib replacement. 

 

The nib failed on the following points. 

The slit is not in the middle of the nib. As you can see, the slit was somewhat slanted. Look at the triangle imprint on the nib in the picture. Also, the slit in the tipping material is not in the middle.  

... 

The tipping material is attached to the nib in a crooked way. 

It is difficult to see in the pix below. But, if you look real hard, you can see, the tipping material is attached in less than the perfect manner. 

...

There is some space between the nib and the feed. I can see the empty space from the breezer hole. The nib should rest on the feed perfectly without space. 

 

I am awaiting the reply from Pelikan. I hope they will do the right thing by replacing this defective nib with the new one. If they don't, this Pelikan will be my last purchase from this brand.  

 

I certainly can sympathize. I think that if it writes within their tolerances then you will probably not be satisfied. Along with that you will have "wasted" more time with the pen away. I think I would send the pen to one of the several recommended nibmasters to have it adjusted or tuned to your desires. In the long run that will bring you the most satisfaction. Otherwise you could sell the pen and purchase one from the reputed shops that fine-tune the nibs before mailing them to you.



#12 legume

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:08

This is what I'm afraid of. I didn't email the person I recently bought an M800 from in time to ask specifically that the stripes on the body be straight and the nib slit be perfectly centered (Damn your shipping speed and efficiency!). I'm waiting anxiously for the pen to arrive and if I have the same problem you have I will be EXTREMELY irritated. I wish Pelikan would put more effort into making sure that everything is aligned. They know that they have a nib design which has criss-crossing lines at the nib slit! They designed it! I have another Pelikan nib for which, although the stamped lines and nib slit are aligned, the entire stamping of the nib is noticeably off center! This means that the tipping is uneven on each tine. The nib works, sure, but it looks incredibly sloppy! Not a good representation of the brand. Sadly, this is still within Pelikan's manufacturing tolerance and is an all too common occurrence. I can't see how this is good for Pelikan. It's a conspicuous lack of quality control. If you saw your friend's pen with this problem, would you want to buy from Pelikan? Oh, and by the way, the fact that so many of their pens have slanted stripes doesn't mean that their pens have 'character.' That word is too often used as a euphemism for defect.

 

Now that I have the Brown Tortoise, which is the only Pelikan finish I like enough to spend my money on, I'd glad I won't have to deal with this ridiculousness anymore. Love ya and hate ya Pelikan.



#13 Paul80

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:46

Hi

 

Just checked the nib on my M1000 and the slit on that one also is not dead central, but its still a buttery smooth wet writer so its not an issue for me.

 

Paul



#14 Paul80

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:53

If I compare this nib with my other Pelikans (M1000's F, M800's EF, M600's EF and etc), this M1000-EF's issues are the first for me. As the tipping point is slightly scrooked and slit is not in the middle, it writes wider than usual for Pel's EF nib. As each tine's tipping point is not equal in size, this is an exepcted result. For an EF nib, the precision manufacturing is expected (at least in my book).

 

From the nib side up, the slit is slanted toward left, while the tipping point is slanted toward left as well.

 

As I could not make myself unknown on those issues, my take on the writing feel has already been affected negatively. The sounds the nib makes seem louder.... The slight feedback seems to be more pronounced than my other Pelikans.....  

 

Here is the rough illustration of the nib.

IMG_4717_zps8c235f86.jpg

 

As an apt analogy, this is like buying a brand new luxaury car. Upon delivery, the bumper and hood are misaligned and the dealer is telling me he has repainted some parts of the car. Would you accept this?  In case case, it is resounding no. 

You would be surprised just how many new cars, Luxury and not luxury get damaged repaired and repainted by the dealer before delivery, but the deference is they don't tell you what they had to fix before you picked it up, but then thats the difference between a products costing many thousands and a cheap (Relatively) Pen.

 

Why not just go back to the dealer and demand a refund if its not to an acceptable standard.

 

Paul



#15 Flounder

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 11:18

If you look at the tipping straight on, is the off centre slit in the tipping vertical, or is there any diagonal to it?

 

Vertical or wonky.JPG



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#16 Pen2009

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 12:34

Why not just go back to the dealer and demand a refund if its not to an acceptable standard.

 

Paul

I will do that after giving the dealer / Pelikan one more chance. If the nib is not to be exchanged, I will return it on the ground the nib is defective. If that happens, I am afraid this would be my last Pelikan. 

 

There are some replies on this thread indicating they don't see any problem. I respect your opinions, which I disagree completely with due respect; but, as I am the one who has paid for the M1000, I have the vested interest in correcting this situation with Pelikan. 


Edited by Pen2009, 06 April 2014 - 13:46.

My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#17 dneal

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 13:17

Honestly, I don't see a problem here.

 

Me either.



#18 proton007

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 14:40

As my M1000's nib was with some manufacturing imperfection or defects, I returned it to the retailer for the warranty repair, with the specific request for the replacement of the nib. The repair took more than 3 weeks and what I received was a nib adjustment as the repair. I am very disappointed with this outcome and decided to escalate this again with the retailer and Pelikan itself.  If the pen is cheap, then, I will let it go. But, for the price range of the M1000 class fountain pens, I could not accept the repair less than the nib replacement. 

 

The nib failed on the following points. 

The slit is not in the middle of the nib. As you can see, the slit was somewhat slanted. Look at the triangle imprint on the nib in the picture. Also, the slit in the tipping material is not in the middle.

 

The tipping material is attached to the nib in a crooked way. 

It is difficult to see in the pix below. But, if you look real hard, you can see, the tipping material is attached in less than the perfect manner. 

 

 

There is some space between the nib and the feed. I can see the empty space from the breezer hole. The nib should rest on the feed perfectly without space. 

 

I am awaiting the reply from Pelikan. I hope they will do the right thing by replacing this defective nib with the new one. If they don't, this Pelikan will be my last purchase from this brand.  

 

I hope the issue can be resolved at the earliest.

 

Pens in the price range of the M1000 shouldn't have issues such as these, whether they're cosmetic or functional is a separate issue. This is a manufacturing defect, pure and simple.

 

I'll recommend talking to the distributor directly.


The sun sets behind you, And it shines on me too
This view must be the highest beauty
And I know that light will pass, And the dark will fall
But I don't care about that now, No I don't care about that now

The days we spend, Searching, sometimes finding
If we die today, we should die smiling,
And I know these times will be gone someday, But I don't care about that now


#19 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 16:55

I see a problem...the thing is not up to what is standard for an expensive pen....he can't even send it off to be repaired by someone who cares. The slit is off center.


Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#20 Ursus

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 16:56

 

Even if it writes well the owner has the right to ask for a nib replacement. 1 dollar pen also writes well but don't we pay top dollars for the aestethical aspects of high end pens? It's not a minor detail if you pay $600 for a pen. Would you accept scratches or dents on a brand new car thinking that it still drives well? My answer is, no!

I don't think that this is a major aestethical issue and even nibs should be allowed a little personality. The important thing is if it writes well.

 

If it absolutely has to be replaced, I would suggest asking them to give you another kind of nib (F, M, B, whatever). I believe that such an exchange falls under the normal Pelikan customer service. If they don't think that there is anything wrong with the nib you probably cannot convince them to give you another one in any other way.

 

Best regards and good luck

Ursus



#21 load81

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 21:33

There are some replies on this thread indicating they don't see any problem. I respect your opinions, which I disagree completely with due respect; but, as I am the one who has paid for the M1000, I have the vested interest in correcting this situation with Pelikan. 

 

I have to say that i had to look at the pictures for an extended amount of time to identify the issue. If this was my pen i would consider it a minor issue if i noticed it at all. Regardless of that it is of course your right to demand exchange, but i wouldn't be surprised if the response is not to your liking.



#22 johnkim424

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 00:53

One of the reasons why I enjoy fountain pens so much is that each one is unique, specially the vintage ones made during 40s-50s.  Pens made during this period were all hand made so imperfections were norm.  I have many pens with uneven tipping, where one side bigger than other which does not bother me a bit.  However, when you buy a pen costing hundreds of dollars, you have a right to get what you want as a consumer.  If your slit is not perfectly perpendicular or tip is uneven, Pelikan should find you a perfect nib you request.  How difficult can this be? 



#23 proton007

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:35

One of the reasons why I enjoy fountain pens so much is that each one is unique, specially the vintage ones made during 40s-50s.  Pens made during this period were all hand made so imperfections were norm.  I have many pens with uneven tipping, where one side bigger than other which does not bother me a bit.  However, when you buy a pen costing hundreds of dollars, you have a right to get what you want as a consumer.  If your slit is not perfectly perpendicular or tip is uneven, Pelikan should find you a perfect nib you request.  How difficult can this be? 

 

That's what surprises me.

 

Almost all modern nibs are machine made. I'm not sure what the tolerances are like, but a badly cut slit means the nib wasn't aligned properly during the cutting process.

 

This also means it's possible a whole batch was cut in the same way, until someone found out about the problem, and still decided to use these nibs anyway.

 

So, either they don't consider this as a problem (which is bad QC policy), or they didn't bother to mark these nibs as defective (bad QC).


Edited by proton007, 07 April 2014 - 01:38.

The sun sets behind you, And it shines on me too
This view must be the highest beauty
And I know that light will pass, And the dark will fall
But I don't care about that now, No I don't care about that now

The days we spend, Searching, sometimes finding
If we die today, we should die smiling,
And I know these times will be gone someday, But I don't care about that now


#24 Tombstone

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:20

At the end we talk about an optical problem - until now I see no writing problem mentioned.

 

And the problem with optical problems: some care, some don't. So this will always be a "Jesses, don't waste your time" vs. "but I want to have it my way".

 

@ pen2009: if this is important for you, then fight for it! You want it to look good? Get a perfect nib. Others might check how it writes and don't care for the position of the slit. I am a user - and I do not care.

 

But I also do not care for misalignements on my cars - they are tools like pens.


There are no facts, there is no truth - just a data to be manipulated...

#25 Xof72000

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:17

Wise words, Tomstone ! 



#26 hari317

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:36

Perfection has its place. Companies like Pelikan should be able to satisfy the perfectionists amongst us, atleast for their most expensive pen in the regular souveran range.



#27 Pen2009

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:05

I am happy to report the Dealer got an approval from Pelikan for a nib exchange.  So, I am getting a new EF nib. Due to supply scarcity, my waiting time is up to 1 month. But, it is worth the wait for the pen in the class of the M1000.  No rush as I have already have too many Pelikans in my hands.

 

Kudos to Pelikan to listen to the customer and take a right action.

 

I am sending out the pen to the dealer this week. 

 

I will surely post the outcome after I receive the pen with the new EF nib. 

 

Yes, there are problems with the writing feels.  This misalignment is causing a fatter line and there is some weird feedback which is different from my other Pelikans. My "other" Pelikans have the perfect nibs.  


Edited by Pen2009, 07 April 2014 - 12:07.

My collection: 149 EF/F/B/OBB, Collodi B/Twain F/Mann F, 146 M, Silver Barley F, M1000/M800 B'o'B/M800 Tortoise/Sahara/415 BT/215/205 Blue Demo, Optima Demo Red M/88 EF & Italic/Europa, Emotica, 2K/Safaris/Al-Stars/Vista, Edson DB/Carene BS, Pilot 845/823/742/743/Silvern/M90/Makies, Sailor Profit Realo M/KOP Makies/Profit Makies/Profit 21 Naginata MF&M/KOP/KOP Mosaiques/Sterling Silvers,Platinum #3776 Celluloids/Izumos/Wood pens/Sterling Silvers,YoL Grand Victorian, and more (I lost counting)

#28 Tombstone

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 16:46


Yes, there are problems with the writing feels.  This misalignment is causing a fatter line and there is some weird feedback which is different from my other Pelikans. My "other" Pelikans have the perfect nibs.  

 

Attention: is this your first M1000? I ask, because there is a huge difference between the nib of the M1000 and all ther Pelikan-nibs.

 

So for this: it might be a feature, not a bug...


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#29 Flounder

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 17:44

Something I would be uncomfortable with is the fact that you have less leeway smoothing out a EF nib with unequal tipping material. I'm glad you're getting the nib exchange you want.



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#30 Albinoni

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 23:15

Hi

 

I know we expect perfection and at this price it is understandable but if that nib is within their production tolerances then you may not get what you want out of this and that I know will bug you until you sell the pen or get hold of a nib yourself and change it yourself.  It is an easy job on the M1000 as they just screw in and out.

 

Not what you want to hear I know but Pelikan are getting themselves quite a poor reputation for the delivered state of their nibs.

 

How does it write is what Pelikan will be looking at, if it writes fine they will send it back untouched. Don't know the relevant consumer law in America but you could try getting the dealer to refund you for it if you are allowed to reject it under your States laws.

 

Just remember an off centre tine slit is quite common and can have no ill effect on the pens ability to be a pen.

 

If it writes as it should I would suggest putting your loupe away and just enjoy your pen, you will grow to hate it otherwise.

 

Paul

 

1. But would you call a nib that is not cut properly to be accapeted within their tolerances, I would of thought  that when a nib is cut precisely within the centre than it would be within their tolerances

    Simply I would ask how came your other nibs were split in the centre and all of sudden this one isnt, but sorry to me not acceptable.  May as well go and buy and get a cheap Chinese pen where

    their nibs are split in the center. I love my Pelikans, dont get me wrong and they are one of my favourite fountain pens have a few here myself which all write flawlassly even my 1997 M800 is a

    beautiful writer, but sorry this to me is just not accepted.

 

2. Why didnt they just simply change and give the op a new nib, simple :-)