Same Ink, Different Pens, Different Results?! What's The "write" Ink?

[AndWhoDisguisedAs]

Hi group. I could use some help and guidance and ultimately ink suggestions.

 

I really don’t understand how the exact same ink can look and write one way on one fountain pen and look and write completely different on another fountain pen! Case in point: I recently purchased a TWSBI 580 Demonstator. Love how it looks, but it's shaping up to the most frustrating fountain pen I own. Here's why:

 

Using the same Noodler’s Liberty Elysium, on the TWSBI 580 the ink is darker, richer looking, but bleeds and feathers (even writing with the nib barely touching the paper). The paper, by the way, is Leuchtturm 1917 Master 100 gsm. Now, using the same ink injected into a cartridge in a Platinum Preppy Fine, the ink is perfect on the same paper. No bleeding, no feathering. It’s a little lighter in color but absolutely no problems.

 

Same thing with the Organics Studio Charles Darwin. In my Waterman Phileas F (injected into a Waterman cartridge) the ink runs thick and bleeds through the Leuchtturm paper. Inside the Platinum Preppy M, it’s fine. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

Generally, I have been finding that inks that bleed in my Waterman Phileas (Fine), Lamy Safari (Fine), and TWSBI 580 (Fine) all behave with my Platinum Preppy's, either medium or fine. This is very frustrating.

 

So I'm looking for ink suggestions. I've tried a bunch of Noodler Inks as I was mistakening told they were fast drying and would work well with the TWSBI, Waterman and Lamy. Most don't. I just tried a Private Reserve Black Quick Dry in the TWSBI and while the ink flows more than I'd like, it doesn't feather or bleed, so I can actually use the TWSBI to write in the Leuchtturm 1917 Master.

 

Any other ink suggestions? It appears Aurora Black is highly regarded. My favorite blue ink colors are the Noodler Liberty Elysium and Pilot Kon-Peki. Would like a blue-black, navy, and something like either Noodler's Air Corps Blue-Black (which looks green to me) and Organics Studio Frank L. Baum (which is green).

 

Any suggestions, tips and tricks -- as always -- are greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

[doggonecarl]

I think one of the most interesting aspects of fountain pens (as well as the most frustrating) is finding that perfect combination of ink/pen/paper that make the experience of writing with a fountain pen so enjoyable.

 

I love Mont Blanc Midnight Blue. But when I recently loaded it in my Pilot Vanishing Point (med nib), I was shocked how badly it behaved. Replaced it with Noodlers Bulletproof Black...works great.

 

What does the Mont Blanc work best in? My $15 Indian eyedropper.

 

Love how Noodlers 5 O'Clock Shadow writes in my Pilot 78G with a broad nib. In my Noodlers Ahab, horrible. I can't get that ink out of the pen fast enough.

 

I like how Sheaffer Skrip blue looks and it behaves good in all my pens. But in my vintage Sheaffer desk pen it's a totally awesome, and different, ink than it is in my Chinese Hero.

 

I'm not sure if there is a definitive list of pen and ink combinations, but I will keeping my eye on this post and see what others say.

[saskia_madding]

Honestly, I'd suggest you change paper instead. Although it is definitely true that different pens cause inks to behave differently, I believe that mainly has to do with the wetness of the nib. Wet nibs let more ink flow through the feed more quickly, and the pooling ink might be too much for the paper to handle.

 

Personally, I like wet nibs, so instead I've narrowed down the paper I use daily. Rhodia dotPads are great, and so in Tomoe River paper. G.Lalo works, for those who prefer a little tooth to their paper, and I adore the Rhodia lined notebooks for jotting quick things on the go.

 

I'd also suggest trying different inks to see what works for your lifestyle. Here's where reading reviews and buying ink samples comes in. I'd start with a Sailor ink if I were you, as I find them to consistently be the best behaved while still remaining really saturated, and relatively cheap ($20 for a Kobe ink off ebay).

[lapis]

Actually, it's easy to answer (at least a few small considerations right off the bat).

Different pens can have different flows due to their capacity and amount of ink being let through the section and then into the nib. Different nibs can have different widths (Fine, Medium, Broad etc) which means that the "force" (physically defined as the weight [in this case also volume] of ink per area under it) will also vary. Using one and the same ink will result in very different amounts of ink for any line or letter, number etc -- all written in the same manner with the same force (pressure) you apply with your own hand. As if that all weren't enough, different papers play a huge role here as well. There is not only the thickness of the paper and its specific weight (measured in lb (per ream) or g/m² , but also the paper's absorbance. Think of writing on a piece of wood or metal or kitchen towel or styropore. Inks consist of several/many different dye components -- or pigments consiting of very fine particles suspended in the solvent. Now apply any ink to one single paper... what the paper takes in (like a sponge) or lets itself just be painted on the surface... all of these things mean that different papers (with one and the same pen and ink) can also yield completely different colours -- at least intensities thereof -- as we see them. Also, what I see on my screen is not always the same as what I write on paper. Ditto scans vs photos. Finally, some people's sense of sight aren't always equivalent.

 

Whew

[Uncle Red]

I'll second Saskia here and suggest a better paper. Leuchtturm is not the best paper for fountain pens. It's better than some. If you already shop from Jetpens, look at their Japanese papers. I bought 2 recently and one is a gem and the other is pretty good (I'm only getting bleed through on the pretty good one and then only from very wet nibs, i.e. flex pens).

 

Good paper is not cheap. Nothing that's worthwhile is.

[SallyLyn]

Would like a blue-black, navy, and something like either Noodler's Air Corps Blue-Black (which looks green to me) and Organics Studio Frank L. Baum (which is green).

 

I'm a big fan of Air Corps and also see the green, more when I dilute. Think that comes from the uniforms of the Air Corps which was a part of the Army (green). Probably told you a big lie. Nathan often has written somewhere a bit of a story, history of each ink. I see a touch of green in Noodler's Navy also but much less. Zhivago has more black with the green. Someone many years ago use to post photos of the inks on something like paper towel and it pulled out the colors in the ink. Photos still might be in this forum or the ink reviews. --- However I don't know how any will work on your paper and pens.

[AndWhoDisguisedAs]

Thanks for far everyone. I'm hoping we'll see more responses. I agree finding the right fountain pen, right ink, and right paper is a black art, looking forward to seeing more suggestions!

 

Regarding changing paper ... I'm not completely opposed to it. I like the Leuchtturm 1917 Master large size and hardcover. Not crazy about the large rules, but I use them more as a guideline often cramming three handwritten lines within two ruled lines. If Rhodia has a similar sized lined notebook, I'd try it. The Private Reserve Fast Dry Ultra Black works well (though not perfectly) with my TWSBI 580, so at least I have one option. I will try the Aurora and the Sailor inks. Does anyone want to swap samples? Happy to offer up: Noodler's Elysium, Mont Blank Blue, and J. Herbin Eclat De Saphir.

[Oranges and Apples]

Any other ink suggestions? It appears Aurora Black is highly regarded.

 

Aurora Black has a very intense flow and feathers. You'll likely experience bleed through and feathering. But if you change your paper choice to Rhodia you'll just experience longer than usual dry times without the bleed through and feathering.

 

Or if you would like to continue using your current Leuchtturm 1917, then I would recommend Noodler's Bulletproof Black. You would not experience bleed through or feathering but you'll experience longer dry times.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Oranges and Apples

[dcwaites]

Different nibs have different wetnesses. I prefer my nibs to be a little on the dry side, and adjust them to be so. While the general advice (particularly by Nathan Tardiff) is to have a tiny gap between the tines down to the nib tip, I prefer to have my nib tips just touching. If you can slip a piece of very thin paper through the tines of your TWSBI, then it will probably be too wet for you.

 

My experience is that the Platinum Preppy pens do often run a little dry, while my TWSBI, along with my Sailor ProGear, is a little wet. I use my drier pens on poorer quality paper, and my wetter ones on good paper, like Rhodia/Clairefontaine and certain Kikki.K notebooks.

 

You may want to consider gettng a spare nib for your TWSBI and adjusting it to your preference. Perhaps get a couple of cheap Chinese pens such as the Kaigelu 356 to practice on first, though.

Some people recommend getting a cheap set of feeler guages and adjusting the nibs so that the very thinnest blade will just slip through the nib slit, however I find that too wet.

 

Note also that the Noodler's dye based inks (Blue, Ottoman Azure, etc) are very saturated with dye, and on good paper will take a long time to dry. You can dilute those inks a bit until the problem goes away. Some Noodler's inks, like Kung Te-Cheng do penetrate many papers and become touch-dry much more quickly than other inks.

 

As for inks, you may want to look at some of the less saturated inks like Waterman Serenity Blue or Sheaffer Skrip Blue.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I use to test an ink with 8 assorted width and flex nibs, on 4-5 papers.

Now I'm just lazy...three pens, three papers.

 

Go to ink reviews and look up ink reviews by Sandy1 4-5 different normal run of the mill pens, on 4-5 papers. She really shows you how ink differs with different nib widths and papers.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

 

Keep track of what pens and inks you use on what papers. It helps in the long run.

 

paper...do not use ink jet paper...it's designed to absorb ink jet very rapidly. Feathering with many inks.

 

Laser pure 90g or better gives you a better writing experience.**

 

IMO combo paper can not be as good as pure Laser, in something has to be compromised in it accepts ink jet ink too.

 

** Back when I was 'noobie' I had Lamy Turquoise, the basis ink all turquoise inks are compared. It was a nice color but rather blaaaa.

I saw in ink reviews, both reviews then, showed Lamy Turquoise shading. Both were using 90 g paper.

I had a pad of 90g Oxford Optic...a a very nice inexpensive paper that would be hard to get in Vermont, but easy to get in North Germany, Great Britain or Spain. On that paper the Lamy ink Shaded also!!! No longer a boring ink.

[Uncial]

I've noticed that Iroshozuku Ina-ho in some pens can be quite dark on the page, while in other pens of the same type of nib, it will look a beautiful golden colour. It might be the speed of the flow down the feed I guess.

[inkstainedruth]

It's amazing what a difference there is between pen nibs -- even seemingly identical ones. For example, I have several Parker Vectors, all UK made. The dark blue one (F nib) is a firehose -- wetter even than the stainless steel one (which is an M); the dark red one (also an F) is a much drier writer; the bright blue one (yet another F) is somewhere between the dark blue one and the red one in flow rate.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Medsen Fey]

If you have a pen that seems too wet, iron gall inks can be good (and the come in some nice colors - not just blue-black).

[MusterMark]

I'd recommend giving Waterman Serenity Blue a try in finicky pens.

 

I recently bought a bottle of Akkerman Shocking Blue--gorgeous ink that works wonderfully in my vintage Sheaffer Balance. In my Lamy 2000, on the other hand, it skips, causes hard starts, and changes color (not just tone!) at will (not my will, mind you). Some inks just don't seem to like some pens. I know there's a perfectly scientific explanation for these bad interactions, but I prefer to think it's personal.

[ac12]

In your wet TWSBI, I recommend Pelikan ink.

I use Cross ink (made by Pelikan) for my wet pens, to slow down the flow of ink.

I use Waterman in my dry pens to increase the ink flow.

 

BTW, I have a similar situation.

• Cross blue in a Parker 51, and the ink line looks like a slightly light blue. SAME ink in an Esterbrook, and the ink line is DARK blue. You would think it was 2 different inks.
• Same with Sheaffer turquoise. Out of my Parker 45, a nice clean turquoise with NO shading. Out of my Esterbrook, it is a dark teal color with shading. Again, you would think it was 2 different inks.

In both cases the pen with the darker ink line was wetter, and flowed more ink onto the page. More ink = more dye = deeper color.

 

This gets worse if you are using XF or F nib pens. On most/all nibs, as you get finer the ink line gets narrower. The actual color of the ink is the same, but your eye sees more white paper than colored ink, so you think the ink is faded. I have ejected blue ink from my pens with XF and XXF nibs. These pens will only see black ink.

[amberleadavis]

Thanks for far everyone. I'm hoping we'll see more responses. I agree finding the right fountain pen, right ink, and right paper is a black art, looking forward to seeing more suggestions!

 

Regarding changing paper ... I'm not completely opposed to it. I like the Leuchtturm 1917 Master large size and hardcover. Not crazy about the large rules, but I use them more as a guideline often cramming three handwritten lines within two ruled lines. If Rhodia has a similar sized lined notebook, I'd try it. The Private Reserve Fast Dry Ultra Black works well (though not perfectly) with my TWSBI 580, so at least I have one option. I will try the Aurora and the Sailor inks. Does anyone want to swap samples? Happy to offer up: Noodler's Elysium, Mont Blank Blue, and J. Herbin Eclat De Saphir.

 

 

Paper will be a big difference. I'm a TWSBI freak. I know I own the most TWSBIs in Nevada (it's a small state). I use broad or italic nibs and the wettest ink I can find. I just flushed out Liberty Elysium because it kept drying in the nib and frustrating me. SOOOOOO, let's start by changing your paper.

 

Have you considered Miquel Ruis paper. The stuff is great! Send me a PM and I'll send you an ink sample of something completely different and sheet or two of the MR paper.

[AndWhoDisguisedAs]

Hi Everyone. Thank you all for your suggestions. I took one of them and Noodler's Bullet Proof Black is a winner. Works perfectly in my TWSBI 580 writing on the Leuchtturm 1917 Master Ruled. As I find more inks (hopefully) for the TWSBI that do not feather and bleed on the Leuchtturm, I'll let you know. Any suggestions for Blue, Navy Blue, Blue-Back, Gray and Green?

[ac12]

For DARK blue, Diamine Midnight. I would use it in place of a blue/black, because I do not like the gray color of blue/black ink.

 

Blue = Waterman or Pelikan blue.

 

Gray. Ha ha, you can get a blue/black, as some of them look gray to me. All depends on what shade of gray you are after.

 

Green = Waterman green. But I have not sampled very many greens...yet.

I would stay away from Noodler's Emerald City Green. Really NICE color, but it blots on all 4 of my test papers (HP 32# Premium, Hammermill 28# Color Copy Digital, Staples 20# cane, Staples 16# filler paper). So it would likely blot or bleed though on your Leuchtturm paper.

[amberleadavis]

For DARK blue, Diamine Midnight. I would use it in place of a blue/black, because I do not like the gray color of blue/black ink.

 

Blue = Waterman or Pelikan blue.

 

Gray. Ha ha, you can get a blue/black, as some of them look gray to me. All depends on what shade of gray you are after.

 

Green = Waterman green. But I have not sampled very many greens...yet.

I would stay away from Noodler's Emerald City Green. Really NICE color, but it blots on all 4 of my test papers (HP 32# Premium, Hammermill 28# Color Copy Digital, Staples 20# cane, Staples 16# filler paper). So it would likely blot or bleed though on your Leuchtturm paper.

Was that Noodler's ECG or Organics Studio ECG?

[amberleadavis]

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