Please Help Me Id This Vintage Pen!

[Florida Blue]

 

I don't know bout the "5" I know after the craftsman, you'd see it show up on say snorkel admirals, and the 5 prior to snorkel/touchdown etc was generally just to denote 14K Gold Open Nib.

 

During the Balance-era, the #5 denoted the actual size of the nib. Sheaffer put #3 nibs on their less expensive pens, which were smaller than a #5 nib. As Roger said, Sheaffer made #7 and #8 Feathertouch nibs, which were larger, but those are quite scarce. The Lifetime nibs were larger than a #5 and would have equated to a #7 or #8.

 

You are correct that later on the #5 meant the type of nib and plating (or lack thereof) in the Snorkel and Touchdown pens.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Florida Blue

[kirchh]

Wonderful pen. As roger noted, it is a model A5W. I would date it to late 1934 through about 1935; in 1936, the clip was changed to a smooth, so-called "radius" style.

 

This model, and related models, underwent a number of step-wise evolutionary changes in a short period of time after they were introduced in mid-1934. The clip was re-positioned from a high mount to a low mount (yours has the high mount); the barrel was lengthened slightly (I cannot ascertain which length your pen has); the barrel construction was changed from a three-piece arrangement with a helically-wrapped transparent center section with opaque end pieces fused on to a one-piece helically-wrapped barrel with blacked-out end areas, and perhaps to other arrangements as well (your pen has the earlier construction); the imprint was changed (yours has the earliest imprint); the feed changed form; and the nib imprint changed slightly (yours appears to have an earlier nib imprint).

 

When first introduced into the Sheaffer-branded line in mid-1934, pens with the new Vacuum-Fil plunger system were not available as Lifetime models; I speculate that Sheaffer was not yet confident enough in the reliability of the filling system to apply that level of guarantee. However, after a few months, Lifetime models were added. Your pen has an interesting anomaly which appears from time to time; the cap bears the 1/8"-wide cap band that was associated with Lifetime-level pens, rather than the 3/32"-wide band that would ordinarily be mounted on the less-expensive non-Lifetime Feathertouch pens. I have several similar examples, and I speculate it is a result of some period of over- or under- production of one or the other models, though these variants do not exhibit filled-in White Dots, which would be in evidence if totally finished Lifetime caps needed to be converted to a non-Lifetime appearance.

 

For restoration of the filler, I would recommend Ron Zorn, as I know him to have the highest standards for workmanship. Gerry Berg also has an excellent reputation for restoring pens with this filling system. With all others not specifically recommended by another expert, you take your chances.

 

A few notes on some of the comments in the thread so far:

 

- As Roger noted, the three or four digit number that appears below the imprint on some Sheaffers of this era is not a model designation; it is merely the retail price of the pen (in cents), no doubt included to aid dealers. It can be used as a crude way to narrow down the actual model being examined. The practice of adding this price stamp did not commence until several years after the pen under discussion was made.

 

- The FTC (not the FCC) did not make lifetime guarantees illegal. Nor did they prohibit the levying of a service charge in connection with repairs made under such a guarantee. It is also not the case that it "wasn't til many years later that a manufacture could offer a 'Limited' lifetime warranty." Anyone with an interest in this longstanding myth is invited to read my article on the subject, "Myths of a Lifetime, Part 2".

 

- It is not accurate that "the 5 prior to snorkel/touchdown etc was generally just to denote 14K Gold Open Nib." When the "5" appeared as part of the nib imprint (as opposed to lightly etched, as on later pens), it was a size designation.

 

- It is incorrect to assert that "the Lifetime nibs were larger than a #5 and would have equated to a #7 or #8." Lifetime nibs were made in several sizes, including a smaller size that was fitted to slender pens.

 

- I do not believe there is any evidence for the claim that "the lifetime pens now command a bit higher price because, depending on the year of manufacture, they can be less common today." I think there is simply more demand for the models that were higher in the line originally. We are, of course, speaking in extremely broad generalities.

 

--Daniel

Edited March 24, 2014 by kirchh

[JonSzanto]

Daniel, as always, your posts are immensely helpful, not just to the OP, but to all who are reading. Thanks!

[Shimmershadow]

Daniel, that is really cool! Thank you for all the information, this pen just seems to be beautifully special in so many ways. I just heard back from Aaron over at Pentiques, he's very kindly going to take another look at the nib-section chaos (it's still a bit dribbly), but I will make sure to get a measurement on the length for you before I send it off. The nib itself, when it's not being fussy and leaky, writes so smoothly and beautifully, I cannot stand the thought that I wouldn't be able to use this all the time.

 

I must second what Jon has said, this is fabulously informative, and I am loving learning all these little details!

[Florida Blue]

 

- The FTC (not the FCC) did not make lifetime guarantees illegal. Nor did they prohibit the levying of a service charge in connection with repairs made under such a guarantee. It is also not the case that it "wasn't til many years later that a manufacture could offer a 'Limited' lifetime warranty." Anyone with an interest in this longstanding myth is invited to read my article on the subject, "Myths of a Lifetime, Part 2".

 

That was a great article Daniel. It did clear up quite a lot of the discrepancies in the lore of lifetime warranties.

[KBeezie]

 

- The FTC (not the FCC) did not make lifetime guarantees illegal. Nor did they prohibit the levying of a service charge in connection with repairs made under such a guarantee. It is also not the case that it "wasn't til many years later that a manufacture could offer a 'Limited' lifetime warranty." Anyone with an interest in this longstanding myth is invited to read my article on the subject, "Myths of a Lifetime, Part 2".

 

 

By the time I noticed my mistake of Federal Trade Commission vs FCC I was unable to edit the post. (but yea FCC makes no sense back then).

[Shimmershadow]

Measurements: with the cap on, it is exactly five inches from end to end. Cap off, it is 4.5 inches from tip of nib to end. The leak seems to have something to do with there the feed fits into the section, and it's off in the post tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

[Water Ouzel]

 

By the time I noticed my mistake of Federal Trade Commission vs FCC I was unable to edit the post. (but yea FCC makes no sense back then).

Well, the FCC was launched in 1934, so not too far out. Except for the radio part.

[Shimmershadow]

Just wanted to let you all know, my pen came back home today. A new feed seems to have solved the leak problem (they sent the old one back along with it too), and the pen now writes like I can't even tell you. It's light, smooth, and just an immeasurably pleasant experience. Thank you all so much for your help in identifying the pen and giving me a little bit of its history. I look forward to putting it to page for another eighty years!

[JonSzanto]

Just wanted to let you all know, my pen came back home today. A new feed seems to have solved the leak problem (they sent the old one back along with it too), and the pen now writes like I can't even tell you. It's light, smooth, and just an immeasurably pleasant experience. Thank you all so much for your help in identifying the pen and giving me a little bit of its history. I look forward to putting it to page for another eighty years!

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/emotes/danceman_l.gifhttp://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/EnvoyC/emotes/danceman_r.gif

[rmossie]

Today I received a purchase from last week. I found and purchased that exact pen the color, length, and Sheaffer engraving on the barrel, in very very near mint condition with the exception of the usual stuck piston. I plan on making it one of my daily writers. I started to look thru my resources to date this when I decided to look on FPN and Bingo!!!

 

WOW, That's why I love this site. A tremendous resource and very knowledgeable group of individuals. Thank You to all that share the knowledge. Shimmershadow congradulations on inheriting a beautiful family heirloom, that pen is beautiful. May you have lifetime of memorabile writing experiences, and someday pass it on to a very deserving future generation.

 

Bob

[Lazard 20]

About the implications and scope of the Federal Trade Commission you can read here some original texts to form your own opinion:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/251972-blue-diamonds-autopsy/

 

On the other hand those who have said that this model is a A5W, Could they enlighten us and tell us why they have discarded that it is not a "First Lady" A53WS? Thanks in any case.

 

Added:

 

"...in 1936, the clip was changed to a smooth, so-called "radius" style"

One and all? If they were not all, you should clarify that models / range, price or Lifetime/NonLifetime changed clips to avoid confusion for those who are initiated just now.

 

"... the three or four digit number that appears below the imprint on some Sheaffers of this era is not a model designation; it is merely the retail price of the pen (in cents), no doubt included to aid dealers".

Given that the caps were interchangeable between some different models Lifetime / NonLifetime makes more sense that the imprint price in cents serve for not to confuse a barrel with correspond particular cap of them. Among other things, to know that barrels were guaranteed and which not and not only for aid dealers.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Lazard 20

[Lazard 20]

Shimmershadow, your grandfather may well see it in this ads 1935 and 1936. Enjoy your fountain pen. Regards.

 

http://s4.postimg.org/brnzss1hp/1936_02_08_DOBLE.jpg

 

Footnote. I'm more inclined to think it's a "First Lady" A53WS gift from your grandfather for your grandmother.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Lazard 20

[kirchh]

On the other hand those who have said that this model is a A5W, Could they enlighten us and tell us why they have discarded that it is not a "First Lady" A53WS? Thanks in any case.

 

It's different from the A53WS in almost every respect. It's the wrong size, to start; the 53WS is a slender pen (2 girth, in Sheaffer's terms), whereas this pen is medium or stndard diameter (4 girth). The length matches that of the 5W, but it's too long to be a 53WS. The clip is wrong, too; the First Lady pens had "radius" clips.

 

 

 

Added:

 

"...in 1936, the clip was changed to a smooth, so-called "radius" style"

One and all? If they were not all, you should clarify that models / range, price or Lifetime/NonLifetime changed clips to avoid confusion for those who are initiated just now.

 

I wrote, "it is a model A5W. I would date it to late 1934 through about 1935; in 1936, the clip was changed to a smooth, so-called "radius" style." It should be quite clear to which model I am referring.

 

"... the three or four digit number that appears below the imprint on some Sheaffers of this era is not a model designation; it is merely the retail price of the pen (in cents), no doubt included to aid dealers".

Given that the caps were interchangeable between some different models Lifetime / NonLifetime makes more sense that the imprint price in cents serve for not to confuse a barrel with correspond particular cap of them. Among other things, to know that barrels were guaranteed and which not and not only for aid dealers.

 

That makes no sense, as some barrels only fit one cap style, and if Sheaffer wanted to indicate exactly which model the barrel was, they would simply have put the model name or symbol, not the price. The nib would serve to indicate what tier the pen belonged to, and thus the guarantee.

The guarantee hypothesis also makes no sense; again, the nib indicated the guarantee. Furthermore, the price was very lightly stamped, surely so that it could be buffed off, or would quickly wear off, and therefore, it would be useless as an indicator of a guarantee.

 

--Daniel

[kirchh]

Footnote. I'm more inclined to think it's a "First Lady" A53WS gift from your grandfather for your grandmother.

 

As noted above, the pen cannot be an A53WS.

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

"It's different from the A53WS in almost every respect. It's the wrong size, to start; the 53WS is a slender pen (2 girth, in Sheaffer's terms), whereas this pen is medium or stndard diameter (4 girth). The length matches that of the 5W, but it's too long to be a 53WS. The clip is wrong, too; the First Lady pens had "radius" clips."

 

After that, of course, the Lifetime had clip radius, but you're not an amateur and you are manipulating because my "First Lady" was quoted, referring to the years that still had no name and "First Lady" was referred to the full range of lady, Lifetime and NonLifetime.

 

"I wrote, "it is a model A5W".

 

You wrote it, but you're so far from proving this.

 

"but it's too long to be a 53WS"

 

Probably you lose credibility with these statements. You know -and all SheafferS´connoisseurs- that 4.5" -the length reported in the post- is not "too long" precisely. The problem is that you were wrong to give the model before knowing the length and now you are trying to justify the unjustifiable, instead of accepting the mistake.

 

"...That makes no sense".

 

What makes no sense is "helping retailers" and you know it. But I understand that it costs you publicly admit.

 

"The guarantee hypothesis also makes no sense; again, the nib indicated the guarantee"

 

I'm afraid you have written without thinking b´cause the nibs can be changeable.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Lazard 20

[Roger W.]

Lazard;

 

I wrote it was an A5W because that is what it is if you look it up in the catalog. The pen in the OP is chunkier and has the wrong clip as Daniel points out to be the A53WS. It is in every respect the visible counterpart to the 5VC shown in the catalog therefore, it is an A5W. I'm not sure why you make the unsupportable assertions that you do. Lack of knowledge? Desire to argue at any cost?

 

Roger W.

[Lazard 20]

"...in 1936, the clip was changed to a smooth, so-called "radius" style"

One and all? If they were not all, you should clarify that models / range, price or Lifetime/NonLifetime changed clips to avoid confusion for those who are initiated just now.

 

"... the three or four digit number that appears below the imprint on some Sheaffers of this era is not a model designation; it is merely the retail price of the pen (in cents), no doubt included to aid dealers".

Given that the caps were interchangeable between some different models Lifetime / NonLifetime makes more sense that the imprint price in cents serve for not to confuse a barrel with correspond particular cap of them. Among other things, to know that barrels were guaranteed and which not and not only for aid dealers.

 

And this models are from Sheaffer´S catalogs too.

 

http://s16.postimg.org/89f3tuoc5/Sin_t_tulo_4.jpg

[Roger W.]

L:azard;

 

I agree - if it were not the pen in the OP but, had conforming cap, barrel and nib for an A53WS then it would be an A53WS. But that is not what the pen in the OP is - it is still an A5W.

 

Roger W.

[Lazard 20]

The one-stroke-vacuum rod length 2 5/64" plain is coherent for 4,5" total length SheafferS and 2 5/64" rod length is for short models type WS (WS=short plunger type).

 

Addedum. I do not question your knowledge, but your precipitation, to ensure the model without knowing its dimensions. That tricked to Mr. Kirchheimer. The imprecision of the change of clips that could to be understood, for a new fpen fans, that all models changed clip and his ventured and meaningless without gave reason or evidence to sense for cents imprint, invited me to post.