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Faux Penman Sapphire #9


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#1 dcwaites

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:07

So, inspired by my attempts earlier today with diluting Diamine Majestic Blue, I decided to see if I could make a version with the correct colour.

 

And so -- behold Faux Penman Sapphire #9

Diamine Majestic Blue ..... 4 Parts

Diamine Sapphire Blue .... 3 Parts

Water ............................... 8 Parts

 

Depending on your particular pen and paper, you may wish to add more or less water to get a pleasing depth of colour. This particular batch works very will with fine nibbed pens, you may want to wind the water back a bit if you are using a medium or broad nib, or more absorbent paper.

 

I have attached some scans

 

fpn_1394340963__scan-140309-0001scaled.j

 

The first compares the colour of FPS #9 with real Parker Penman Sapphire. It was done on Clairefontaine notebook paper.

 

fpn_1394340983__scan-140309-0002cropped.

 

The second scan compares the degree of feathering with both inks. As you can see, both inks feather to the same degree on this paper.

 

fpn_1394340999__scan-140309-0003cropped.

 

The third scan shows the degree of bleeding, which again, is the same on this paper.

 

The second and third were done on old stock Reflex paper, which is a marginal paper for feathering and bleeding. On better paper, neither ink feathers or bleeds.

 

Other Properties --

  • Spreading. There was no noticeable spreading with either ink.
  • Dry Time. Both inks dry within seconds on most paper. Using fine nibbed pens on Clairefontaine I got 3 seconds dry time for each ink. Less on more absorbent papers. Of course, if you are going to use a broad nibbed firehose, dry times will be longer.
  • Red Sheen. Both inks will show a degree of red sheen when concentrated, or used in a wet pen.

So, as far as I can tell, I have been able to make an effective duplicate of Parker Penman Sapphire, in colour, appearance and behaviour.

 

The Quest stops here.

 

 



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#2 plc123

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:11

Brilliant work!



#3 Wile E Coyote

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 00:02

Try 1 part Private Reserve DC Supershow Blue.


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#4 dcwaites

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 02:42

Try 1 part Private Reserve DC Supershow Blue.

 

I have tried the PR inks before (DCSSB and Amer. Blue). However both feather and bleed more than the recipe above.



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#5 carlos.q

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 03:02

This looks very nice. Thank you for this! Now I just have to get me a bottle of that Majestic Blue.... :P

#6 dcwaites

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 10:47

I have found that buying 4 30ml bottles directly from the Diamine Inks website a good way to get several colours.

I am about to get two more each of the DMB and DSB. Along with the dilution with water, that should give me over 200 mls of usable ink, for about AU$26,

compared to 50 mls of real PPS for over $50.



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#7 English John

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 12:39

I will be trying this , once my sample bottles arrive. Do you use normal tap water, or do you use distilled water ?



#8 dcwaites

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 00:09

I use distilled water for making larger lots (> 20 mls) or filtered/de-ionised water for smaller lots.

The problem with tap water is that it can vary so much from place to place.



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#9 Wile E Coyote

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 22:45

 

I have tried the PR inks before (DCSSB and Amer. Blue). However both feather and bleed more than the recipe above.

 

Have you tried it in comparison to Parker Penman? You should make sure the Penman is also dilute to the original level. Most has evaporated a bit since it was originally made and will bleed less in a more concentrated state. Parker Penman was supersaturated and any evaporation will affect it's properties.

 

I've done a lot or comparison over the years and Private Reserve is as close as anything. The two differences I've noticed are the sheen is slightly different as is the odor.


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#10 dcwaites

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 00:45

 

Have you tried it in comparison to Parker Penman? You should make sure the Penman is also dilute to the original level. Most has evaporated a bit since it was originally made and will bleed less in a more concentrated state. Parker Penman was supersaturated and any evaporation will affect it's properties.

 

I've done a lot or comparison over the years and Private Reserve is as close as anything. The two differences I've noticed are the sheen is slightly different as is the odor.

 

I have an almost full bottle of the original Parker Penman Sapphire. This bottle has suffered no evaporation at all, and is at the original concentration.

I use this as my base standard to compare all my samples with.

 

I wanted an ink that not only looked like the original, but behaved like it as well, in dry time, bleeding, etc. This is the first time I have been able to get both.

 

Also when I compare ink behaviour (the evil trilogy of FBS (Feathering, Bleeding, Spreading) ) I always use middle-of-the-road paper. If I use good paper (Rhodia, Clairefontaine, etc) the paper is so good it hides those behaviours.



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#11 Masque

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:21

Almost hate to ask this, but how's the sheen?

#12 dcwaites

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:27

The sheen is there, to a similar degree as with the original.



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#13 Chrissy

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:04

I'm very impressed that you have made it so close as to be virtually indistinguishable in colour.


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#14 dcwaites

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:16

Thank you, that was the aim, to make a functional replacement for the original, and now unobtainable, Parker Penman Sapphire.

 

This particular recipe replicates the colour, the behaviour on paper as regards FBS (Feathering, Bleeding and Spreading), Smear and Dry Time, and the magic Sheen.

 

No other blend I have been able to make has achieved this.



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#15 toddatkins

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 21:37

Brilliant job here.  It baffles me why Parker wouldn't reissue the Penman Sapphire ink.  It would be a huge hit, and certainly they could ask a premium price. 



#16 threeeye

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 14:37

toddatkins-

 Could it be that through facilities relocation, personnel changes, environmental impact, safety standards and lost processing directions that there is no way that the "original" formulation is easily reconstucted.  In other words "We can't find the recipe! It's not lost.  It's here somewhere."



#17 mm1624124

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 23:48

Mute!  One is available and does the job...let's embrace it!

 

Thanks for the effort.  Now the only hook for those that must have it is in name only.

 

The Quest stops here.

 

Yes, yes it does.  Thanks again.



#18 Pens by J. I. Schmidt

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 00:50

Beautiful ink!



#19 MKeith

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 01:44

Can't believe I missed this. Absolutely great work!


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#20 cellmatrix

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 03:52

Is there any difference in water resistance between faux pps and pps or are they equally poor? What about shading - any differences?

#21 Mesu

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:04

Looks almost exact replica of the original.

Thanks for sharing the recipe.

#22 dcwaites

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:11

Neither is particularly water resistant, and the degree of shading with both is similar.



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#23 The Good Captain

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:28

I have all the ingredients so I'll give it a try soon. Thanks for all your efforts.


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#24 dcwaites

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 02:51

Thank you all, for your nice comments.

One of the things that makes this an extra special blend is that it is more than 50% water. That means that two 30 ml bottles of ink at approx. $4 ea will give you 112mls of ink for $8.



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#25 sadiemagic

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Posted 21 April 2014 - 02:04

Oooo, I can't wait to try this! I have 2 bottles of the real thing remaining, and I am stingy with using it, but you may have achieved perfection with this blend! Thank you!


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#26 Sach

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:54

I have an almost full bottle of the original Parker Penman Sapphire. This bottle has suffered no evaporation at all, and is at the original concentration.
I use this as my base standard to compare all my samples with.
 
I wanted an ink that not only looked like the original, but behaved like it as well, in dry time, bleeding, etc. This is the first time I have been able to get both.
 
Also when I compare ink behaviour (the evil trilogy of FBS (Feathering, Bleeding, Spreading) ) I always use middle-of-the-road paper. If I use good paper (Rhodia, Clairefontaine, etc) the paper is so good it hides those behaviours.


Out of curiosity; where and when did you acquire this full bottle of PPS? I have half a bottle remaining of the original which I bought in around 1997 whilst I was in school. I bought a full bottle from a pen show last year, but have serious doubts about its contents, as it appears to have a very noticeably different colour.

#27 dcwaites

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 12:29

I got two bottles from eBay, in separate purchases, before the pricing went crazy. One I have been using, and the other is almost untouched, so I have been using that as a reference sample.



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#28 Sach

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 18:21

I got two bottles from eBay, in separate purchases, before the pricing went crazy. One I have been using, and the other is almost untouched, so I have been using that as a reference sample.

When was your purchase?

The trouble I find is that I'm just not convinced that most of the ink in bottles being sold as PPS are actually genuine. The bottle I bought last year is no where near the original that I myself bought in around 1997. It would be very easy for me to decant the contents of the bottle and fill it up with PR electric blue or Diamine Majestic blue and sell it on for £50 or something. It's just too much of an economic temptation.
I heard an interview by Brian Goulet of Nathan Tardiff, of Noodler's fame, and he spoke of just this problem when trying this replication.

Sorry to ruin the fun guys, but we need to know that what we're actually using as a benchmark is verified as original, and seems like many comparisons are just chasing a mirage...

Edited by Sach, 26 April 2014 - 18:22.


#29 welch

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 21:38

- It would be easy enough to triangulate: to check against a pair of Penman inks.

- Electric Blue does not look like PPS, and neither does Majestic Blue. Electric is much too dark, and Majestic lacks a sapphire / purple tone...so a mix of Diamine Majestic and Diamine Sapphire might work...and, aha, that's this recipe!

- DC Supershow Blue comes close, but lacks the sheen, or what I call "the glow".

- Penman comes in a box. It's pretty easy to tell if a box is shelf-worn or if it has been opened, the bottle opened, and the ink poured out. Things won't quite fit. There will be stains.

- A final check: someone was selling Penman Sapphire cartridges. I bought several dozen. Th ink had evaporated from the "tap-a-tank" end. Add water and you should have the original strength Penman Sapphire. 


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#30 dcwaites

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 00:31

When was your purchase?

The trouble I find is that I'm just not convinced that most of the ink in bottles being sold as PPS are actually genuine. The bottle I bought last year is no where near the original that I myself bought in around 1997. It would be very easy for me to decant the contents of the bottle and fill it up with PR electric blue or Diamine Majestic blue and sell it on for £50 or something. It's just too much of an economic temptation.
I heard an interview by Brian Goulet of Nathan Tardiff, of Noodler's fame, and he spoke of just this problem when trying this replication.

Sorry to ruin the fun guys, but we need to know that what we're actually using as a benchmark is verified as original, and seems like many comparisons are just chasing a mirage...

 

I have three lots of PPS, from three different sources. Each is identical, and has the set of features that other inks don't --

  • The unique colour and shading
  • Fast drying with no smearing
  • Excellent bleeding and feathering behaviour
  • The famous "Red Sheen"

Up until now, I have not been able to find any other substitute for PPS that matches all the above criteria.

 

Now I might have been caught out with one purchase, but it is unlikely that three different suppliers could create hitherto unknown clones that were identical.

 

There was a small re-release of Penman Sapphire by Parker a few years ago, but it had a different set of properties from the original. Some of these bottles were supplied with Parker Duofold True Blue pens.



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