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I.D. an old Waterman lever-fill


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#1 kenny

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:18

I have a flea-market Waterman lever-fill I am trying to identify. Sorry, I don't have a pic.

The cap and barrel look black, although the section between the threads for the cap and the nib look dark greenish (which makes me wonder if the pen is discolored). The barrel has a simple lever on it. It is a fairly cylindrical shape with no decorations. Engraved on the barrel it says:
WATERMAN'S
Made in (IDEAL) CANADA
FOUNTAIN PEN
It has a "3" on the end of the barrel.

There is a silver-colored thin ring at the bottom of the cap, and the clip on the cap has a round ball at the end. It has "WATERMANS" written vertically on the clip.

The nib is gold. It has a heart-shaped opening in it. The writing on the nib is:
GREEN
WATERMAN'S
14 K
IDEAL
CANADA

Any thoughts? Any sites you could direct me to which might have a picture?

Edited by kenny, 19 February 2007 - 07:20.


#2 kenny

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:33

It kinda looks like the celluloid 52 (1934)at the bottom of this page on Richard's webpage, although my pen doesn't have the slight rim on the sides of the clip that this one in Richard's picture seems to have. I am too ignorant to tell if it is made of celluloid or not.


Celluoid 52

Edited by kenny, 19 February 2007 - 07:39.


#3 Oxonian

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 08:21

Hi Kenny,

I may be well off the mark but from the description of the section's colour I would say that it is BHR and the discolouration that you mention on barrel and cap make me think that that is likely to be BHR as well.

The number on the end of the barrel indicate that it is a #3 pen and dates from somewhere in the 1930s and if it is BHR then from the earlier part of the decade.

The puzzle is the nib, I don't remember reading anything about the 'colour' series of nibs as fitted to the #7 pen being used in a #3, indeed I would be surprised if one of these would fit inside the cap and still allow it to screw onto the barrel. the 'Green' on the nib indicates that the nib is from this series of nibs.

One of the specialists will probably be along in a while and put us both right on things but FWIW that is my opinion, I hope it may be of some help. smile.gif

Cheers, John

#4 kenny

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 19:31

I tried to get info on the #3, but was unsuccessful.

To be honest, this pen doesn't FEEL like rubber. But it does feel like a soft plastic (if that makes sense).

I did find some info about the GREEN nibs, but like you, it didn't seem to make sense. The pens I saw with the GREEN nibs online didn't look like my pen at all.



#5 Dillo

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 19:44

Hi,

Smell the inside of the cap. If it smells like camphor, it's celluloid. If it doesn't really have a smell, let's go on to the next step, rub the barrel until it is warm and sniff. If it smells like burnt tyres, then it's rubber.

What you have is a #3 which if my memory serves is actually a 32. It's a full-sized one, not the more common short 3V model.

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#6 kenny

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 00:04

QUOTE (Dillo @ Feb 20 2007, 02:44 PM)
Hi,

Smell the inside of the cap. If it smells like camphor, it's celluloid. If it doesn't really have a smell, let's go on to the next step, rub the barrel until it is warm and sniff. If it smells like burnt tyres, then it's rubber.

What you have is a #3 which if my memory serves is actually a 32. It's a full-sized one, not the more common short 3V model.

Dillon

Actually, it's the one you re-sac'ed for me, Dillo.



#7 kenny

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:06

Hey, I found a picture of what could be the same model of pen on eBay....they say it is a Canadian model (like mine) and the picture looks the same. I can't see the nib in the pictures, though. The seller doesn't give any info on the model, though.

Pen just like it on eBay

Anyone with any thoughts on the model?



#8 Oxonian

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 12:51

Hi Kenny,

I have several of the pens shown in the e-bay picture, they have no number on the barrel end and they come with #2 nibs or W2-A nibs, I have never seen one with a 'colour' nib in and with their normal section there is no way that a 'colour' nib would fit the standard section without cracking from breather to base, the bore of the feed hole is too small to accomodate them.

The #3 was produced in several versions over the years in both BHR and in plastics, those that look similar to the pen in the picture were produced throughout the 1930s.

The earlier, 1929-30'ish pens were shorter than the later (1936'ish)pens and had the clip attached a little further down the cap than the later ones with a bigger ball end.

The later plastic ones were very like thinner versions of the 52 in appearance but I don't recall hearing of a pen in the #3 family with a bigger #7 'colour' nib that isn't to say they didn't exist, if they did someone round here will likely know but I think someone has been playing with your pen.

By the way if you paid typical flea market price for it the nib is worth a whole lot more than you likely paid, I have been looking for a #7 nib and the prices are from $80 and up for a blue so a green would I think be about the same.

hope that helps a bit, cheers, John

#9 Johnny Appleseed

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 17:56

I think that Waterman might have also made "color" nibs in the #5 size as well as the #7.

I also seem to recall reading that the #5 and #7 pens of the color nib era are not as large as they would be in the older numbering system - a #5 being smaller than an older #5, and closer to an old #2. However I have not found the reference where I heard this, so I may be completely wrong.

John


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#10 kenny

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 03:41

QUOTE (Oxonian @ Feb 21 2007, 07:51 AM)

The later plastic ones were very like thinner versions of the 52 in appearance but I don't recall hearing of a pen in the #3 family with a bigger #7 'colour' nib that isn't to say they didn't exist, if they did someone round here will likely know but I think someone has been playing with your pen.

By the way if you paid typical flea market price for it the nib is worth a whole lot more than you likely paid, I have been looking for a #7 nib and the prices are from $80 and up for a blue so a green would I think be about the same.

hope that helps a bit, cheers, John

Well, if they did a little mix and match, they did it with parts all made in Canada. Both the nib and the barrel say "Canada" on them.

I did buy the pen in an "antique" flea-market type marketplace in Vermont (for those of you who may not be from the US, Vermont is a New England state that borders Canada). So I assume it is a pen made for the Canadian market that worked its way across the border.

If the nib really is worth about $80 US, then I think I did pay less than it is worth. I got three pens that day...as close as I can remember, I think I paid $14, about $20-25 and perhaps $40. I got 3 lever-fills that day, this pen, an Esterbrook and what I think is a Sheaffer Craftsman.