International Buyers Stay Away From Ebay Usa!

[Inkysloth]

At the UK end, it annoys me that Royal Mail charge £8.00 handling fee if there's a customs charge to pay - I've had a £1.00 charge before now, with the £8.00 added on!

 

I'd far rather be able to send the charge direct to HMRC without brokers and Royal Mail taking their cuts.

[colex]

The main problem is that besides being unfair (as in the present case) is a non-transparent (in fact it is not for nothing!) for the user who will have to pay, because you can't know in advance the amount of this "heavy tax" until the auction is ended.

[checkrail]

I agree about RM charge, but to be fair to HMRC their admin cost would soar if they did not use RM as agents. I think frequently (not always!) HMRC do not levy small VAT because it costs them more administratively to process, as they do not recover enough.

At the UK end, it annoys me that Royal Mail charge £8.00 handling fee if there's a customs charge to pay - I've had a £1.00 charge before now, with the £8.00 added on!

 

I'd far rather be able to send the charge direct to HMRC without brokers and Royal Mail taking their cuts.

[AeRoberto]

I have an order from ebay USA in progress, and I've just decided I will never buy an item shipped with the GSP again. It is slower than the standard mail (I usually ask for USPS Priority Mail with registered mail), and the fees are higher. Basicly from the buyer side there is no advantage in this program.

[tfwall]

I have an order from ebay USA in progress, and I've just decided I will never buy an item shipped with the GSP again. It is slower than the standard mail (I usually ask for USPS Priority Mail with registered mail), and the fees are higher. Basicly from the buyer side there is no advantage in this program.

 

Well, it removes all the hassles of international listings and protects sellers, which encourages them to make auctions that were "US only" into international auctions.

 

It also provides the buyer with international tracking for your purchase. Not to mention it saves you the time and hassle of determining the correct tariffs to remit to your service if they don't charge them upon entry into the country.

 

So, it does provide benefits to the buyer, whether you think these are worth the convenience charge is a personal decision.

[AeRoberto]

 

Well, it removes all the hassles of international listings and protects sellers, which encourages them to make auctions that were "US only" into international auctions.

 

It also provides the buyer with international tracking for your purchase. Not to mention it saves you the time and hassle of determining the correct tariffs to remit to your service if they don't charge them upon entry into the country.

 

So, it does provide benefits to the buyer, whether you think these are worth the convenience charge is a personal decision.

 

I agree that this program protects the seller, but with the standard shipping methods, I can choose if I want tracking or not, with this program no. If i buy a pen for 20$ I can choose to ship the item via First Class Mail, losing the tracking option but paying a low price for shipping, with the GSP I have tracking but I have to pay at least 21$ plus import duties (that should not be paid for such a low import).

If I decide to have tracking and insurance I have to pay an higher price, but the package arrives way faster than the GSP. The calculation of the import duties is not difficult, 21% VAT + 5€.

Maybe with time the system will improve, but at the moment I don't see any convenience.

[terim]

I was approached by eBay and asked to participate in their international shipping program. I did not like the idea of a third (or fourth) party being so heavily involved in my transactions, so I declined.

 

International shipping is an important hurdle for US sellers to overcome. Customs charges and valuation are a big part of the challenge, and we've gotten negative feedback because the customer was hit with high fees when it came time to collect the package. I don't think a system exists that can accurately predict customs charges, because the policies vary from country to country, and the policies are not always applied evenly. For this reason we put the responsibility on the customer to know what to expect from their own customs agencies, and our shipping charges only include postage and insurance.

 

I understand what eBay is trying to achieve, and I think the intentions are good for both buyer and seller, but this isn't the way to do it.

 

Teri

[ThomasB]

I am an ebay seller here in the US. About half of my items are shipped to overseas buyers. I have not opted in to the Global Shipping program and will not because of the issues noted above. I ship all my pens via USPS First Class International, which now has delivery confirmation to most if not all of the countries I ship to, and my buyers do not have to deal with all the aforementioned issues.

 

I think the Global Shipping program was targeted at those sellers that were currently not shipping overseas as an option for secure shipping. From my perspective, over the years I have shipped in excess of 2000 pens overseas and have lost exactly two via USPS--so I find it to be very dependable

[colex]

I was approached by eBay and asked to participate in their international shipping program. I did not like the idea of a third (or fourth) party being so heavily involved in my transactions, so I declined.

 

 

I understand what eBay is trying to achieve, and I think the intentions are good for both buyer and seller, but this isn't the way to do it.

 

Teri

 

 

 

 

I am an ebay seller here in the US. About half of my items are shipped to overseas buyers. I have not opted in to the Global Shipping program and will not because of the issues noted above. I ship all my pens via USPS First Class International, which now has delivery confirmation to most if not all of the countries I ship to, and my buyers do not have to deal with all the aforementioned issues.

 

I think the Global Shipping program was targeted at those sellers that were currently not shipping overseas as an option for secure shipping. From my perspective, over the years I have shipped in excess of 2000 pens overseas and have lost exactly two via USPS--so I find it to be very dependable

 

 

 

I've got 2/3 pens from you on ebay and everything was done in the best way ... I paid the customs fees and VAT, but nothing that I did not know already!

 

 

Thank you for your kind thoughts.

[checkrail]

As importation is purely a transaction between importers, ie buyers, and customs authorities and nothing to do with the sellers, I would hope that eBay would delete negative feedback from buyers stupid enough to blame the seller for customs charges.

Kindest regards

Timothy

I was approached by eBay and asked to participate in their international shipping program. I did not like the idea of a third (or fourth) party being so heavily involved in my transactions, so I declined.

 

International shipping is an important hurdle for US sellers to overcome. Customs charges and valuation are a big part of the challenge, and we've gotten negative feedback because the customer was hit with high fees when it came time to collect the package. I don't think a system exists that can accurately predict customs charges, because the policies vary from country to country, and the policies are not always applied evenly. For this reason we put the responsibility on the customer to know what to expect from their own customs agencies, and our shipping charges only include postage and insurance.

 

I understand what eBay is trying to achieve, and I think the intentions are good for both buyer and seller, but this isn't the way to do it.

 

Teri

[tfwall]

As importation is purely a transaction between importers, ie buyers, and customs authorities and nothing to do with the sellers, I would hope that eBay would delete negative feedback from buyers stupid enough to blame the seller for customs charges.

Kindest regards

Timothy

 

Yes, the program terms state that they will.

[TakeoJiro]

I am really confused by this.

 

Import duties are charged by the country the item is being imported to, not where it's bought from. So how can Ebay USA charge an import duty fee?

 

For example, I bought T-shirts from Threadless in the USA, I had to pay the import duty for them at a UK Post Office, and this money went to the UK Revenue & Customs. If Threadless had charged the import duty at their end, how would I know it would actually go to UK Revenue & Customs?

 

I had seen some similiar things , overstock.com one of examples iirc .My understanding reason is cargo companies , they want custom tax upfront , no idea about ebay situation atm.

Edited August 19, 2013 by TakeoJiro

[elysee]

eBay should leave the collection of any customs fees to the Customs Office and the shipping company. By interfering in this process, eBay could cause the buyer to pay the customs fees, if any, twice. eBay is a market place not a fee-collecting agency. In addition, there is no way to guarantee that the buyer's country is going to believe any notation on the shipping label that the customs fees have been paid.

[frr149]

I saw the same thing on Amazon.com. I will not buy anything from any vendor that tries to preemptively collect taxes that are not due and certainly not to them.

 

This whole idea is ridiculous and probably illegal.

[Virobono]

I won't buy from sellers using this system; if a seller chooses not to sell to the UK, that's a matter for them.

 

When I buy from overseas, I generally expect to pay duties and tax if they are due. What I do object to is the fees charged by shippers for 'clearing', which are generally disproportionate.

 

In the UK, I suspect that shippers charging a clearance fee could be on dodgy legal ground if challenged (I have challenged one and they dropped the fee), because they have no contract with the buyer and do not offer the opportunity for buyers to opt out of their clearance system.

[Mickey]

I saw the same thing on Amazon.com. I will not buy anything from any vendor that tries to preemptively collect taxes that are not due and certainly not to them.

 

This whole idea is ridiculous and probably illegal.

More likely you've got it exactly backwards. Amazon (leading the fight for other E-merchants) held out in court for years against collecting taxes and tariffs at point of sale. It was part of their market advantage over brick and mortar stores. After a series of lawsuits brought in federal court by the attorneys general of several states, Amazon was forced (compelled, coerced, blackmailed) to collect state sales taxes (use taxes) up front. The exact amount collected is set by local statute and the moneys collected do not go to Amazon, but to the states (or escrow accounts to be paid to those states) to which the goods are shipped. Consumers are presumed (by their local governing statutes) to owe the tax (tariff, etc.) and they are no longer allowed to take advantage of the 'float' (interest earned on delayed funding of debts). In all probability, tariffs, VAT, and other fees are mandated similarly by international trade agreements.

 

You might be surprised to find out that you owe money to your government from before Amazon began collecting the fees, taxes, tariffs, etc. In the U.S., the moneys are called 'use taxes,' which are conveniently set at the same level as the local sales tax on goods bought outside the state. The fees were put in place over 50 years ago in lieu of state tariffs on large ticket consumer goods, like automobiles. Payment of the tax is a frequently over-looked line item on our state income tax returns. Failure to pay the tax is grounds for fines and other penalties.

 

The bottom line is you should complain to the body levying the taxes, i.e., your local, state, and federal government, and, in your case, the EU.

 

Usual disclaimer: just another disgruntled consumer with no stake in Amazon, Pitney Bowes, or Vlad's heart.

[checkrail]

More likely you've got it exactly backwards. Amazon (leading the fight for other E-merchants) held out in court for years against collecting taxes and tariffs at point of sale. It was part of their market advantage over brick and mortar stores. After a series of lawsuits brought in federal court by the attorneys general of several states, Amazon was forced (compelled, coerced, blackmailed) to collect state sales taxes (use taxes) up front. The exact amount collected is set by local statute and the moneys collected do not go to Amazon, but to the states (or escrow accounts to be paid to those states) to which the goods are shipped. Consumers are presumed (by their local governing statutes) to owe the tax (tariff, etc.) and they are no longer allowed to take advantage of the 'float' (interest earned on delayed funding of debts). In all probability, tariffs, VAT, and other fees are mandated similarly by international trade agreements.

 

You might be surprised to find out that you owe money to your government from before Amazon began collecting the fees, taxes, tariffs, etc. In the U.S., the moneys are called 'use taxes,' which are conveniently set at the same level as the local sales tax on goods bought outside the state. The fees were put in place over 50 years ago in lieu of state tariffs on large ticket consumer goods, like automobiles. Payment of the tax is a frequently over-looked line item on our state income tax returns. Failure to pay the tax is grounds for fines and other penalties.

 

The bottom line is you should complain to the body levying the taxes, i.e., your local, state, and federal government, and, in your case, the EU.

 

Usual disclaimer: just another disgruntled consumer with no stake in Amazon, Pitney Bowes, or Vlad's heart.

Sales taxes are collected in a totally different way from customs charges. Within a country no internal inspections of traded goods normally take place between despatch by the merchant and receipt by the purchaser. That is why merchants have a legal obligation to collect sales tax/VAT for the government for goods sold domestically and have to declare such sales in their business tax return, Otherwise the whole transaction would never be known to the government at all.

In the case of imported goods, government agents of the country of import inspect goods and assess charges at the point of importation, before delivery to the purchaser. American merchants and eBay com. have no legal obligations to collect foreign governments' taxes. For the same reason British companies selling to tourists from countries outside the European Economic Area prominently advertise that their goods may be bought completely tax free by such tourists, unlike by British or European buyers. The tourists from outwith the EEA may, however, themselves be liable to pay sales tax or import duty when they take their acquisitions through customs.

Kindest regards

Timothy

[Mickey]

In the case of imported goods, government agents of the country of import inspect goods and assess charges at the point of importation, before delivery to the purchaser. American merchants and eBay com. have no legal obligations to collect foreign governments' taxes. For the same reason British companies selling to tourists from countries outside the European Economic Area prominently advertise that their goods may be bought completely tax free by such tourists, unlike by British or European buyers. The tourists from outwith the EEA may, however, themselves be liable to pay sales tax or import duty when they take their acquisitions through customs.

Kindest regards

Timothy

Actually, Amazon and Ebay aren't collecting the fees in their own name, but for the shipping sub-contractors (e.g., Pitney Bowes) which operate in the destination country or in conjunction with a company that does. Thus, the fees are prepaid when the goods enter the bonding area of the destination country. This expedites the customs processes and guarantee the shippers aren't stuck with the expense of sending goods back to a seller for lack of customs payment in the buyer's country. Ultimately, this probably works to the buyers' advantage, both for economy of scale and because the shipping companies are experienced negotiating fair declaration and payment, which insulates the buyer from the vagaries of their own civil service.

 

The reason British sellers advertise their goods to tourists as VAT free is for the simple reason that the tax (or its local equivalent) is due in the seller's country or residence (or the country in which the product will be used), not in the UK. Someone carrying the goods away from the counter is as soon out of mind as out of sight, but when a single merchant or aggregation of merchants working under a single umbrella (e.g., Amazon and Ebay) start doing business on a multi-billion dollar / year scale, you can bet the government will eventually be pulled in to enforce compliance, probably as part of trade and tariff treaties. Ebay seems to have avoided the issue by subcontracting out their international business to franking, shipping, customs experts (PB).

Edited August 20, 2013 by Mickey

[tfwall]

Actually, Amazon and Ebay aren't collecting the fees in their own name, but for the shipping sub-contractors (e.g., Pitney Bowes) which operate in the destination country or in conjunction with a company that does. Thus, the fees are prepaid when the goods enter the bonding area of the destination country. This expedites the customs processes and guarantee the shippers aren't stuck with the expense of sending goods back to a seller for lack of customs payment in the buyer's country. Ultimately, this probably works to the buyers' advantage, both for economy of scale and because the shipping companies are experienced negotiating fair declaration and payment, which insulates the buyer from the vagaries of their own civil service.

 

The reason British sellers advertise their goods to tourists as VAT free is for the simple reason that the tax (or its local equivalent) is due in the seller's country or residence (or the country in which the product will be used), not in the UK. Someone carrying the goods away from the counter is as soon out of mind as out of sight, but when a single merchant or aggregation of merchants working under a single umbrella (e.g., Amazon and Ebay) start doing business on a multi-billion dollar / year scale, you can bet the government will eventually be pulled in to enforce compliance, probably as part of trade and tariff treaties. Ebay seems to have avoided the issue by subcontracting out their international business to franking, shipping, customs experts (PB).

 

Concur. As I see it only three groups of folks are hurt by this policy:

-Criminals, who were planning to evade the taxes,

-People whose time is worth so very little that the time it takes to collect the receipts, locate and fill out the proper forms, prepare a payment instrument and send the whole thing off is worth less than the convenience fee, and finally

-Civil service workers who used to levy the tariffs themselves upon entry, assuming that this loss of package volume will encourage shrinking this workforce.

[checkrail]

This description of the process matches my own understanding. However clearly the relationship is financially beneficial to both eBay com. and the freight forwarder or it would be commercially illogical. In Britain in practice the customs frequently waive charges. The Global Programme does not. Therefore the likelihood of no charge by postal import is replaced by the certainty of one by this method. This clearly makes items shipped this way on average significantly more expensive per transaction to the foreign buyer.

Kindest regards

Timothy

 

Edited for typography.

 

Actually, Amazon and Ebay aren't collecting the fees in their own name, but for the shipping sub-contractors (e.g., Pitney Bowes) which operate in the destination country or in conjunction with a company that does. Thus, the fees are prepaid when the goods enter the bonding area of the destination country. This expedites the customs processes and guarantee the shippers aren't stuck with the expense of sending goods back to a seller for lack of customs payment in the buyer's country. Ultimately, this probably works to the buyers' advantage, both for economy of scale and because the shipping companies are experienced negotiating fair declaration and payment, which insulates the buyer from the vagaries of their own civil service.

 

The reason British sellers advertise their goods to tourists as VAT free is for the simple reason that the tax (or its local equivalent) is due in the seller's country or residence (or the country in which the product will be used), not in the UK. Someone carrying the goods away from the counter is as soon out of mind as out of sight, but when a single merchant or aggregation of merchants working under a single umbrella (e.g., Amazon and Ebay) start doing business on a multi-billion dollar / year scale, you can bet the government will eventually be pulled in to enforce compliance, probably as part of trade and tariff treaties. Ebay seems to have avoided the issue by subcontracting out their international business to franking, shipping, customs experts (PB).

Edited August 20, 2013 by checkrail