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#1 Scrawler

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:54

I have been asked to find a pen for writing Arabic type script for a friend who is studying the written art of a related language. She showed me images of dip pens they make out of pieces of wood that are carved into vertical oblique nibs to be dipped into ink for making artwork from these scripts. Does anyone know if actual fountain pens are made with nibs like this, and where they can be obtained.


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#2 ehemem

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:41

IIRC, you want a left oblique nib, greater than 15 degrees. Richard Binder has info on his site and sells nibs that can be used for Arabic or Hebrew.

 

( And I think that those 'pieces of wood' are actually reeds.)


Edited by ehemem, 02 July 2013 - 03:47.


#3 Seele

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:05

Dollar of Pakistan makes a fountain pen with nibs especially optimized for writing languages such as Arabic and Persian, that is from right to left. It might even be suitable for Hebrew as well, but I am only guessing.


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#4 hari317

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:40

I have been asked to find a pen for writing Arabic type script for a friend who is studying the written art of a related language. She showed me images of dip pens they make out of pieces of wood that are carved into vertical oblique nibs to be dipped into ink for making artwork from these scripts. Does anyone know if actual fountain pens are made with nibs like this, and where they can be obtained.

The modern tool of choice for Arabic/nastaliq calligraphers here(in India), is a simple left oblique Italic nib. HTH.


Edited by hari317, 02 July 2013 - 07:36.


#5 Stompie

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:48

As far as I can recall smk is the only one I have seen doing Arabic script on here. There is also a thread about writing Arabic under the Creative Expressions, Penmanship thread that may assist you.
But perhaps a message to smk may assist.
 


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#6 Spitzner

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:56

I have a NIB Sheaffer No Nonsense calligraphy set labelled for left-handed/Arabic/Hebrew writers. Message me if you're interested.

 

Pam



#7 Scrawler

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:20

Excellent, thanks everyone. I did not know the solution was so simple. I was thinking the nib would be shaped fundamentally different, rather than just being an oblique type. I am quite sure that she cannot spring to a Binder custom grind right now because she is a student. I will look for smk and PM Spitzner.


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#8 Nonsensical

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 15:50

T2936HXbXaXXXXXXXX_%21%21381796152.jpg

Is this more like what you had in mind?



#9 Uncle Red

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 15:54

OK Nonsensical, what are they, who makes them and where do we buy one.



#10 Scrawler

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 15:58

T2936HXbXaXXXXXXXX_%21%21381796152.jpg

Is this more like what you had in mind?

Yes exactly. Please give me information about obtaining these.


Edited by Scrawler, 02 July 2013 - 15:59.

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#11 smk

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 18:04

Scrawler - a reed is by far the best instrument for learning Arabic Calligraphy but it is not always practical to use one if you want to carry it around, besides cutting and curing one is a bit of an art. Also inks used for reed pens are a little different but a thick India ink might do in a pinch.

 

As for fountain pens, all you need is a left oblique nib. The cut needs to be sharper than a stub but should still allow for push strokes and nib manipulation (i.e. changing the angle of the nib during a stroke.) 

 

Not all left-obliques will do though. Since Arabic Calligraphy requires a lot of nib manipulation (even in simple looking scripts) the angle of the cut must be perfect for each scribe. Here is how to find the best angle for the cut for a right handed scribe using a tripod grip:

 

1. Place your right hand flat on a piece of paper.

2. Draw a line that touches the top of the forefinger and the middle finger.

3. Mark two points along the length of the forefinger (to establish the vertical)

4. The angle of the nib should be the same as the angle between the vertical (drawn in 3) and the line drawn touching the tips of the fingers in 2.

 

This puts us in custom-grind territory but one can get passably good results with commonly found left-obliques. Manuscript makes a 'left-hand' set (Manuscript Nibs) and I have stumbled on a Rotring Art pen with a left oblique that performs very well. Dollar pens from Pakistan make left-oblique nibs (called Dollar Qalam) but these are for regular handwriting and the nibs are too small for learning/practicing Calligraphy.

 

Your friend should use nibs that are at least 2mm wide if not wider. Any smaller and you won't be seeing the amount of detail required to learn a hand properly.

 

I use a variety of pens for my practice, my favorite are Sheaffer Calligraphy pens ground to left oblique - they have excellent flow and the size and shape of the pen is close to a medium sized reed. I have transplanted nibs from various pens in Dollar Demonstrators and use them for practice but the flow on these pens can sometimes be tricky with some inks.

 

Here is a picture of some Arabic Calligraphy pens I use:

 

fpn_1348598574__pens.jpg

 

The pens are (from L to R): 

Dollar Qalam, 

Sheaffer Calligraphy pen with M italic nib ground to left oblique,

Dollar pen wiht a nib from a cheap Inoxcrom pen,

Noodler's Creaper with nib from a Hero Calligraphy set cut and ground to left-oblique.

 

I'm not sure if you wanted this much information but you have it now :-) 

 

I think the best bet for your friend is to try and find a Manuscript left-hand set, these are quite affordable and the pens might be cheap looking but they produce excellent results. The Rotring Art pens with left oblique nibs would be a good find but I haven't found any after one lucky chance purchase - these are excellent and I would love to get more if I can find them.

 

If neither of the above pans out, I will be happy to grind a set of Sheaffer Calligraphy pens for your friend and send it to them. I'll just need to know the cut angle.

 

Salman


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#12 Tberry010

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 19:12

Not sure this is what you want but look at "arabiccalligraphysupplies.com".



#13 Fabienne

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 19:26

Wow, what a wealth of information.  I hate to say this but I bought a rather nifty Arabic calligraphy pen with a converter. I wish I could remember where it came from. It may have been from Isellpens, back when they had a huge selection of unusual pens from the Orient. 


Edited by Fabienne, 02 July 2013 - 19:35.

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#14 Scrawler

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 19:50

Thanks for all the information. I will be seeing my friend on Sunday so I will pass this on to her. Her father is a fountain pen user and she had at one time given him a Parker Falcon as a gift because he had a small collection. It was via an "oh snap" when we both pulled out Falcons at a meeting that I got to know them. He had brought her up to appreciate fountain pens and that is why she asked me to look for a fountain pen, rather than the quills her husband uses. I will get an example of the Sheaffer calligraphy pen, the Dollar Qalam and if I can find those things Nonsensical posted, one of those, for them to try. Hopefully I will be able to encourage them to join FPN.


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#15 queenofpens

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 20:13

I don't know anything about Arabic calligraphy - but the sample pictures posted by smk look like a music nib might work.
 
Unfortunately, the only music nibs I know of that are currently available are from Sailor and Platinum for some of their more expensive pens. I was just discussing this last week with Patrick at PapierPlume and he did not know of any others still being made, either.

 

Osmiroid used to make all sorts of specialty nibs but they've been out of business for a while now, unless someone is lucky enough to find a vintage one with the right kind of nib.


Edited by queenofpens, 02 July 2013 - 20:18.


#16 smk

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 21:05

I'm not sure about using Music nibs for Arabic Calligraphy. They are neither the right shape (left-oblique) nor sharp enough to produce the required line variation. They also tend to be a bit too wet so sharper grinds might not produce the kinds of line one expects.

 

Simple square edged nibs (italic) found on affordable pens like Sheaffer or Parker Calligraphy sets, or even dip pens, can easily be ground to the required shape.

 

Salman


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#17 Ghost Plane

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 00:23

Speerbob on here and eBay had some older Prelude nib assemblies at one time that were labelled Arabic, but they might have been right foot obliques. Don't know if he has any more. 

 

Listen to SMK - he does beautiful work.  :thumbup:  :notworthy1:  :notworthy1:  :notworthy1:



#18 Fabienne

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:49

Mmmmmm, Pilot Parallel? You can turn it on its side! It's made to do that! I don't have mine in front of me, but it's a real beauty and very affordable. I will have to check into that tomorrow. 


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#19 Nonsensical

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:01

Are we still allowed to post links?

 

http://item.taobao.c...&id=19745992926



#20 Stompie

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:26

 

Listen to SMK - he does beautiful work.  :thumbup:  :notworthy1:  :notworthy1:  :notworthy1:

+10 

Nonsensical, how would I buy from there - I cant get an English version??


 


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#21 Nonsensical

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:02

+10 

Nonsensical, how would I buy from there - I cant get an English version??


 

 

I believe you would have to go through a third party shipping company...or something like that. I don't think there's an English version of Taobao, but Google Translate should work. I'm leaving China in a few days, but I could probably buy a few and ship them from Australia if enough people are interested...Postal costs are rather prohibitive, though. Please PM me ASAP if you are interested.



#22 Scrawler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 13:02

I have PMd Nonsensical for a couple. It is a shame this kind of interesting item is not more broadly available.


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#23 smk

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 16:44

Me too!

 

I just want to give it one more try at a larger size. I have tried to write Arabic with a 'vertical' edged nib but did not get good results. There is a fair bit of nib manipulation required in writing Arabic and the strange angle of the nib did not feel naturally suited for it.

 

Rotating this kind of nib anti-clockwise will put in a right-oblique orientation and if you can draw hairlines with the tip might be useful for writing English Roundhand in the same way as it was originally done with quills.

 

It is an interesting nib.

 

Salman


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#24 Scrawler

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 16:50

I have asked Nonsensical to get me 3 of these pens. I have decided to keep one for myself and try my hand at interesting scripts.


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#25 TakeoJiro

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 17:19

Bulrush/cane ( i hope it is correct ,used google translate ) and bamboo used for deep pen , you can search web for ''hat kalemi - hattat kalemi '' it means caligraphy pen/caligrapher pen in turkish (used to write ottoman era alphabet )

Edited by TakeoJiro, 03 July 2013 - 17:20.


#26 smk

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 17:37

Bulrush/cane would be a 'reed' pen. 

 

The writing is Arabic and the alphabet is same today as used during the Ottoman era.

 

S.


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#27 Nonsensical

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:33

Last call for anyone interested. I have to order the pens by tonight, or tomorrow morning at the latest, otherwise it will not make it to me before I leave the country. I have a feeling that customs is going to stop and ask me why I have so many strange pens with arabic writing on them...