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Visionnaire Fountain Pen


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#61 heymatthew

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:16

There is absolutely nothing this pen brings to any fountain pen market, aside catering from the hipsters who think it is cool to use and are convinced by the apple-esque advertising of this kick-starter project. The design is fine, but nothing that hasn't been done before; the clip and shape are both very similar to the TWSBI 580 and the upcoming new Montessa. This is classic Kickstarter exploitation.

 

What does a $500 Mont Blanc bring to the market? Pelikan? Monteverde? Edison? Lamy? TWSBI? Sure, the 580 is a piston-filler, but so are Pelikans and Mont Blancs. The Lamy Safari is a steel-nibbed plastic pen with a standard converter. So are 10,000 other pens. Monteverde and Edison are both acrylic pens with steel, german-made nibs. I have some of all of these minus the Mont Blanc because they don't appeal to me, and they're all great pens in their own right. I love every one of the pens I own regardless of the level of innovation they bring to the table.

 

I'm confused at the ridiculous amount of negativity surrounding this pen. So the guy doesn't know about fountain pens... Who cares? You think the guy that runs Ford can rebuild an engine? Think the dude that owns Home Depot can fix a toilet? Doubtful. They're marketing guys. Business men. They find out what people will buy and they find out how to make a profit from it. 

 

It's really discouraging to read the negativity.

 

And for what it's worth, the Pilot Metropolitan is junk. I bought one and couldn't give it away fast enough. It squeaked when I unscrewed the barrel and section, the cap wiggled when I closed the pen. The nib was broad and mushy and squeaky. It was like writing with a piece of pointed bamboo wrapped in tin foil. Maybe this Visionnaire will be the same, but until I have it in my hands, I can't really say. It could be a great little daily carry...

 

Just not sure I understand the disgust everyone is expressing with this project...


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#62 lennymarchese

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:57

It's just that everything about this pen seems so bland and its creator is touting it like it's some huge leap forward in creativity or design. I'm sure it writes fine for what it is, but you can get a $5 pen from China that writes fine and you don't have to be associated with someone who demonstrates how to fill a fountain pen to potential customers by putting India Ink in it.



#63 OnePenGuy

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 03:38


I've never used a Rosetta or the Visionnaire so I can't say for sure, but I do like the looks of the Rosetta pens better than the Visionnaire. ...[snipped...]

 

I think the beauty of pens, much like other things, is in the eye of the beholder. ...[snipped...]

 

It's just shiny and I'm kin to a raccoon and have a tendency to be drawn to shiny things. 

 

OOH! What's that over there!?

Cool to read - I was just curious how folks "rate" or compare stuff - if it's just looks or what.  But yeah, guess it's a goofy question about comparisons when it's all subjective.

 

re:  shiny stuff?  I concur, lol!

 

B)


Edited by OnePenGuy, 10 September 2013 - 03:38.


#64 mrchan

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:54

To be honest, this guy in KS with his idea is just s-t-u-p-i-d. He hasn't done any research. What he is doing is a waste of time. It's a boring banal design, it won't offer anything more than what other manufacturers are already offering out there. For that price I'd rather buy a Parker metropolitan with change leftover to go eat out. He obviously has no clue about FPs or he wouldn't have presented it that way. He is an i-d-I-o-t and I for one, wouldn't support him.

Edited by mrchan, 10 September 2013 - 10:55.

Fountain pens are like weapons. They just make your pocket bleed so much.

#65 Wheatflower

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:25

I'm confused at the ridiculous amount of negativity surrounding this pen. So the guy doesn't know about fountain pens... Who cares? You think the guy that runs Ford can rebuild an engine? Think the dude that owns Home Depot can fix a toilet? Doubtful. They're marketing guys. Business men. They find out what people will buy and they find out how to make a profit from it. 

 

     We aren't talking about someone who wants to run a Home Depot, we are talking about someone who claims he has a revolutionary new toilet which will change how I deal with my bodily waste.  And yes, I do expect that person to know something about toilet repair--if he doesn't know anything about normal toilets, how can I rely on him to know what is revolutionary in his new product?

 

   This is where the negativity is coming from, I think: The gap between what this guy knows and what he is promising in his pen.  Again, I understand why you decided it was a good risk.  I'm just saying that It wasn't a good risk for me, and these are some of the reasons why.


Fountain Pens: Still cheaper than playing Warhammer 40K

#66 heymatthew

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:35

 

     We aren't talking about someone who wants to run a Home Depot, we are talking about someone who claims he has a revolutionary new toilet which will change how I deal with my bodily waste.  And yes, I do expect that person to know something about toilet repair--if he doesn't know anything about normal toilets, how can I rely on him to know what is revolutionary in his new product?

 

   This is where the negativity is coming from, I think: The gap between what this guy knows and what he is promising in his pen.  Again, I understand why you decided it was a good risk.  I'm just saying that It wasn't a good risk for me, and these are some of the reasons why.

 

Oh, I understand that completely. I mean... It may be a complete waste of $35. Probably will be. But I've wasted a lot more money on a lot less. Ever been to a Vegas Casino? LOL!

 

I think calling the guy "stupid" or "idiot" is a bit childish. And I think some of the comments about it being a crappy Chinese pen are insulting as well. That's all I was saying. I think the guy saw the successes of the Pen Type A and the Karas Customs pens and thought, "Hm... I'll put a fountain pen nib on a piece of metal and sell 20,000 of them." And he did. The dude might not know about fountain pens, but he could probably sell headphones to a deaf guy.

 

Sold me a pen, didn't he? :D


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#67 picautomaton

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:36

The guy is filling the pen with Higgins ink is this something that he will encourage his customers to do?


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#68 heymatthew

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:46

The guy is filling the pen with Higgins ink is this something that he will encourage his customers to do?

 

I have a bottle of Higgins ink that I used with some dip pens a while back. It says right on the bottle, "Fountain Pen Ink". I used it in my first fountain pen (a Lamy Vista). I was having problems getting it to write (naturally), and did some research and discovered that india ink shouldn't be used in fountain pens.

 

Recently, a friend got his first fountain pen. He was asking me about inks and said that he had picked up a couple of bottles of Higgins ink because it says for Fountain Pens on the bottle. I told him not to use it as it would gum up the works. Obviously the guy doesn't know what he's doing, but Higgins is sort of misleading. 


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#69 dklein

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 05:42

Hey there. I backed Visionnaire, and I partially agree with what a lot of y'all have been saying. I feel that Morgan has mainly advertised this pen toward people that aren't as familiar with fountain pens as the frequenters of the FPN. If it weren't for the Visionnaire, I wouldn't be here. I mean, I've always liked pens, but I've never delved in like I have been more recently. I really liked the design, but I also understand why some may not. Despite what of and where the pen is made, I don't see why it wouldn't be a nice pen for new fp users; and even enthusiasts who like to mix things up. It's an inexpensive pen. Sure, there are lots of cheap pens that work great. But why does that matter? Some may love a cheap pen and not care for one that's worth twice as much, while vice versa for someone else.

 

I'm sure there's a mass of people that saw it on KS, just thought it looked nice, and will never be more enthusiastic about fps than they were before; apart from using their Visionnaires. But like Centopar said a few days ago, the pen is certainly bringing more people into the fountain pen world. For those, like me, that decide to explore more and join in, it can only be a good thing. For those that simply get the Visionnaire and use it, I'm sure they'll enjoy it just as much as when those of you that know all there is to know get a top of the line pen and use it for the first time. Isn't that what matters? 

 

As for Morgan, the creator of the Visionnaire, I think he really is trying to learn and share better information about the pen. Early in the KS campaign, there was a ton of criticism. A ton of the information that is on the page now was not there. After many harsh comments and accusations, Morgan was happy to add everything he knew to the page to shed some light on the pen. I've even messaged him multiple times with various questions and he's always quick to reply with answers. I honestly do think he means well.

 

Yes, I'm new to fountain pens. But like the pens and pencils I have used, as well as everything else in the world, I'm sure they all have their own strengths and weaknesses that differ from each and every one - not to mention personal preferences. I know, he definitely could have learned more before putting his project out in the world, but he's still been extremely successful with the project. 

 

I, for one, can't wait to try out the pen when it arrives. And I'm glad it helped pave the way into fountain pens and the FPN for me. But again, I'm very new to fountain pens and I may just be crazy, but I felt I'd share my opinion. :)



#70 lahlahlaw

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:28

My second was, "What does this pen do that the Pilot Metropolitan doesn't already do for less money?"  Did anyone else have this reaction?

I thought this as well! I do like the shinny chrome though... If they sold for $30 I'd give them a shot...


I stink of ink.

#71 BoomBox

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 11:41

Is this pen shiny? yes!
Is it worth the $37 I paid for it? Time will tell.
 
I've paid more for worse, it's a damn simple design, without too much bulk, and to be quite honest, I love it. I much prefer how it looks over the Pilot Metropolitan.

Does the author know what he's doing? Partly, he's a generally nice guy and I like his vision, and as it seems so do another 5800. If he produces a quality pen which will last a while, chinese-made or not (all the best stuff is made in china, c'mon!), time will tell. Everyone has to start somewhere I guess.
 
I'm excited, can't wait to try mine out :)



#72 RMN

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:47

I reacted in this topic mid July, and the author has polished his presentation since then. I would suspect he has visited this topic and has learned from it. Several things I pointed out have been changed.

 

I can only hope he learned a thing or two about FPs as well.

 

I find his name a bit over the top "Visionaire" wow..... I would expect more

 

I have nothing against Chinese pens. Cross pens are all Chinese, these days, as are many other brands. Hey, your Iphone or Ipad is probably Chinese.

Chinese can produce to specification. If you order QC you get QC (if you pay for it).

But the specs must be right. I still have some doubt if this guy's specs will be good enough. But, as I said 2 months ago, this pen may turn out to be an adequate pen.

 

Do you need a KS project for a pen like this? No, there are many other brands that produce similar pens of adequate quality. Look at Lamy, TWSBI, Sheaffer 100, Or Sagaris, a bit more expensive.

 

BTW: This guy must beware, as he is naming and showing some big brands there. Maybe NR does not bother with Waterman and Parker, but Montblanc Lawyers seem to be rather bored and are jumping on everyone they can sue.

 

So I am wondering how things will go once he is producing....

 

D.ick


The FPN-Stipula LE 2011 and 2012, too .:

....GOT THEM!!!!!!


#73 dcroe05

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 14:42

I'm sort of a Kickstarter junkie.  It's a great place to find independent books, gaming, music, and the occasional industrial project.  I've not yet ventured into looking for art.

 

I watched this project with some interest, but ultimately decided against it because I felt like I was being lied to.

 

He makes a point of describing how the idea for the pen came about because he wound up signing his son's birth certificate with a disposable pen.  So he came right home and started designing something worth keeping.

 

As I was reading the story, I remember thinking how idiotic that line of reasoning was. IF you assume the story is true, just go buy a freaking pen, and spend time with your newborn son, instead of spending tons of time designing something that already exists in THOUSANDS of iterations.  That's like saying, after my son was born I rode home in a cab--so I decided to design a car worth keeping.  And by comparing his pens to established high-end brands, he either believes or wants us to believe that all fountain pens are comparable.

 

My BS detector went crazy.  It feels to me like he's assembling a pen from existing parts, and everything else is just marketing.  And from that POV more power to him--he seems to have made a lot of money from it.

 

I passed because I browse Kickstarter for things I can't get elsewhere:  Authors trying to get published, musicians trying to get heard, small gaming companies trying to innovate, small batch manufacturing, or people taking a risk on a goofy idea.  To me, this project had none of that.

 

Heymatthew bought one, but he was under no illusions.  He accepts that he's spending $40 or so, out of curiosity.  Nothing wrong with that.  I bought a Nussbaum from Isellpens.com for the same reason.  Mine didn't work out.  I hope Heymatthew gets a pen he likes.  At the very least, he will be able to speak from experience to those people who find FPN because the Visionaire whetted their appetite for fountain pens.



#74 heymatthew

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 14:45

Okay, okay. Dcroe05 has outed me publicly. I admit that I, too, am a Kickstarter Junkie. Dangit... I CAN QUIT ANYTIME I WANT! I just don't want to... :D

 

I'll let you guys know if it sucks. I don't have super-high expectations of it. But if I hate it, I might steal that hand-crafted iridium nib and put it elsewhere. :lticaptd:


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#75 dcroe05

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 15:00

Okay, okay. Dcroe05 has outed me publicly. I admit that I, too, am a Kickstarter Junkie. Dangit... I CAN QUIT ANYTIME I WANT! I just don't want to... :D

 

This is the new one I'm looking forward to.



#76 OnePenGuy

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:10

 

This is the new one I'm looking forward to.

(OT tangent commentary...)  I saw it yesterday, and kinda don't get the design reasoning.  Why have notches cut into the aluminum?  Why not make the brass component smaller (or the aluminum frame bigger) and round the edge of the brass cylinder to match a curve of the aluminum?  And why does the outside of the aluminum frame have two curved sides which aren't tangent and instead meet at a corner?  I guess I like more curves for "flow" and less abrupt edges...

 

And,,,  Back to the regularly-scheduled (and on-topic) posting, already in progress.



#77 dcroe05

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:46

(OT tangent commentary...)  I saw it yesterday, and kinda don't get the design reasoning.  Why have notches cut into the aluminum?  Why not make the brass component smaller (or the aluminum frame bigger) and round the edge of the brass cylinder to match a curve of the aluminum?  And why does the outside of the aluminum frame have two curved sides which aren't tangent and instead meet at a corner?  I guess I like more curves for "flow" and less abrupt edges...

 

And,,,  Back to the regularly-scheduled (and on-topic) posting, already in progress.

 

As to the notches...the greater proportion of the spinning disk to the overall weight, the longer it will spin and the more impressive it's apparent defying of gravity.  So the notches help minimize the weight of the frame and maximize the weight of the disc.

 

As to the other part... :wacko:



#78 mrchan

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 22:40

Okay, okay. Dcroe05 has outed me publicly. I admit that I, too, am a Kickstarter Junkie. Dangit... I CAN QUIT ANYTIME I WANT! I just don't want to... :D

 

I'll let you guys know if it sucks. I don't have super-high expectations of it. But if I hate it, I might steal that hand-crafted iridium nib and put it elsewhere. :lticaptd:

Isn't it just the nib tip that's iridium? Just like every other fountain pen? Iridium is expensive isn't it? Thats why retipping costs so much by nibmeisters. I doubt that is a full iridium nib.


Fountain pens are like weapons. They just make your pocket bleed so much.

#79 heymatthew

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 00:36

Isn't it just the nib tip that's iridium? Just like every other fountain pen? Iridium is expensive isn't it? Thats why retipping costs so much by nibmeisters. I doubt that is a full iridium nib.

 

Yeah, I was being facetious... Thus the rolling on the floor laughing smiley... The KS said it was a hand-made Iridium Nib from Germany (or some such language). I was making a joke about it as it's probably just a Schmidt or Jowo or some similar steel nib.


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#80 RMN

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 02:28

Probably just a Chinese made steel nib with a pellet of iridium-like substance.

But even that the Chinese can do well, if they want.

 

D.ick


The FPN-Stipula LE 2011 and 2012, too .:

....GOT THEM!!!!!!


#81 bigd

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:54

  At the very least, he will be able to speak from experience to those people who find FPN because the Visionaire whetted their appetite for fountain pens.

 

That's me. Since I canceled my pledge for the visionaire I have acquired 4 pens that I write with and I have about 6 more that I am restoring. I have gone a little crazy.



#82 OnePenGuy

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 17:21

FWIW - another person's pov.  Don't know if the points bring up anything new, but I just noticed it.



#83 gerigo

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 18:17

FWIW - another person's pov.  Don't know if the points bring up anything new, but I just noticed it.

Thanks for pointing out the entry. It was a good read, and the evidence quite compelling. The point made at the end though is the one that really brought home the original intention of Kickstarter for me.

 

That they are a platform for people to try ideas that are new to the world. So that others would benefit from this new idea once it's supported by a larger group of people. Selling snake oil is as old as time itself, and am happy that the general public is able to quickly sniff this out and let the project fall by the way side, as the creators of Kickstarter would want the platform to do. I have met with Kickstarter before and they have said they don't interfere in the progress of the projects for this very reason.

 

I am a designer and have worked in the design consulting business for many years, and also in China for 5. I have visited enough vendors and manufacturers, done enough work, and know the mind of the designer enough that I can tell almost immediately this is not the work of a designer but a person who saw an opportunity to source wholesale and sell at retail prices directly to the end user. It's not a kickstarter program worth supporting. But that's my opinion of course.



#84 RMN

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 20:05

Interesting Blog.

 

I can fully relate to these remarks.

 

 

A pity really as it was my first contact with Kickstarter.

 

You know about first impressions. First impression of Kickstarter is not favourable.... Hope I get reason to change that impression.

 

D.ick


The FPN-Stipula LE 2011 and 2012, too .:

....GOT THEM!!!!!!


#85 GClef

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 20:15

IMAG0464-1_zpsf4d6e66e.jpg

#86 heymatthew

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 01:42

Interesting Blog.

 

I can fully relate to these remarks.

 

 

A pity really as it was my first contact with Kickstarter.

 

You know about first impressions. First impression of Kickstarter is not favourable.... Hope I get reason to change that impression.

 

D.ick

 

I wouldn't be so quick to judge Kickstarter as a whole because you didn't like this particular project. I have had far more positive experiences with Kickstarter than negative. It's totally worth keeping an eye on KS for upcoming projects that you might be interested in. 

Don't write off the experience of crowd funding yet. It's fun to watch a project grow. Even the crappy ones. :)


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#87 GClef

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 21:03

IMAG0468-1_zpsc1e9e735.jpg

Screenshot_2013-11-01-15-50-42-1_zpsc687

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#88 welch

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 03:34

It's hard to understand the hostility to this $45 pen. Priced about $10 more than a Safari, and a clean, simple, and more "middle-road" design than the Safari's "disciplinary" grip ("you will hold a Safari like THIS...or else!") and the Safari's paper-clip-clip. Yes, we all know what "Irridium point Germany" means. I'd guess the pen is manufactured in China.

 

FPN has several (many?) threads asking, "How do I get the Ahab / Konrad to behave?" Those pens were made in India; the Ahab is shaped like the Camlin SD, a first-rate pen. Ahab seems to have changed the filling system from the SD, but probably not for the better. Yet, people suggest do-it-yourself suggestions to fix Ahab problems, rather than throw bottles of BSB at Noodler.

 

I wish the Visionaire had been manufactured in Camden, NJ, and designed to take a twist-in swapable nib-unit. So, it's not an Estie. It is priced higher than many Chinese pens, but the mark-up is not far off the mark-up at XFountain Pens -- an outfit I like because of the way they name their pens and because they remarket Diamine ink (my all-around favorite). The Visionaire is probably not far off the markup Noodlers puts on its Indian pens.

 

Would I buy a Visionaire? Only after other pens, now, and not as a first pen after having been spoiled, 50 years ago,  by getting a Parker 45 dark blue gold nib. A different time. 

 

I hope the guy sells his pens and makes some FP converts, and makes more pens.


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#89 dcroe05

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 03:54

It's hard to understand the hostility to this $45 pen. ..

 

While I hold no hostility toward him or his project, I get why people might be adverse to it.

 

1. Kickstarter is a way for people to raise money for new creative projects.  This project isn't that.

2. Reading the description of the project the "designer"is clearly using advertising double-speak to avoid the whole truth (at best).

 

So it's easy to see why people might be against the project.



#90 fpconverted

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 23:31

http://www.kickstart...g-instruments-0

 

No affiliation. 

 

Looks neat. I was a big TWSBI fan and this seems like another inexpensive alternative for folks looking to get into fountain pens. 

 

I will probably back (haven't yet). I'm a big kickstarter fan, use it almost daily. 

Looks like a sheaffer copy!