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Clogging With Private Reserve Or Noodler’S Inks

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#1 rodgerkoopman

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:14

Found this write-up on Richard's website

http://www.richardsp...f/care/inks.htm

 

And can tell you I've experienced firsthand the clogging issues he mentions in my trusty Pilot Custom 823 with several versions of Noodler's ink. I really want to like Noodler's but can ill afford to keep running into issues or, worse, possibly destroy my feed as Richard mentions is possible. I ordered some Waterman and Diamine inks in the hope they'll perform much better. According to several write-ups, these two brands are supposed to be the two better ones in terms of general purpose inks with good flow properties.

 

Anyone else have this occur to them? Any other ink recommendations?

 

Thanks.

 



#2 thedeacon

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:56

I haven't had any issues with Noodler's ink.  However, my experience is limited compared to others.  I have used Diamine for years and never had a problem with any color.  All of the them have behaved wonderfully.  No problems out of Waterman either, but limited experience there as well.  Private Reserve and J. Herbin appear to have a loyal followings.  They may be worth researching.

 

Edit: Ignore the Private Reserve part.  I read the topic again.  My bad.


Edited by thedeacon, 18 June 2013 - 04:04.

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#3 ziptrickhead

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:44

A large majority of my bottles are Noodler's inks and so far I haven't had any extreme issues with them. Sure, some require more cleaning than others but that's the price you pay for using heavily saturated inks. When I first started using fountain pens, I used nothing but Pelikan Brilliant Black in my Safari for years without cleaning the pen once. Would I do the same with say a Bulletproof ink? Of course not, but that's because I now know better and I was lucky that I was using an easy to maintain ink.

 

If you understand that your pens will require occasional cleaning and you don't just leave ink to dry up in a pen then I feel like you shouldn't have any issues with clogged feeds. In general if I have a pen that's inked up and I don't use it for 2 weeks then I dump out the ink and flush the pen. I don't keep my pens filled up and then put into storage for extended periods. On the other hand I've had my Pilot Custon 74 filled up with Black Swan in Australian Roses that I probably haven't used in a month and I just picked it up to write with and there were no issues. 

 

If you're not happy with Noodler's or Private Reserve then I would definitely agree with your move towards Diamine inks. I have a few bottles and they're lovely and the inks seem thinner and wetter than Noodler's so hopefully your clogging problems go away. Plus Diamine has a decent selection of colors and shades versus most pen manufacturers that sell ink. There are some heavily saturated Diamine inks too though so no one should really make generalized statements of a brand from a small sample of inks.


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#4 BMG

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 17:04

Personally, I have been rotating Aurora, Diamine, Iroshizuku, J. Herbin, and Pelikan inks through all my pens for the past couple of years (after rather monogamously using Aurora black and little else for years) and have never had any problems with any of them. I've not been tempted to try either of the brands you mention because of the potential problems associated with them and because the range of colors available elsewhere is so vast.


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#5 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 17:17

I, living in Germany chase Continental European inks....I've not   just got my basic 50 but not the needed 100, so I've not chased Diamine yet.

Pelikan, Herbin, Lamy, MB, R&K, the DA inks that shade (DA does make saturated inks too.), are to me as easy as Waterman. Because those are imported to the US, and have custom's duties, are more expensive than Noodlers or Private Reserve.

 

(Well I don't know what Pelikan 4001 inks cost in the States but they are the cheapest in Germany at  @€3.80; Lamy is close to that price. Pelikan Edelstine, MB at €13....DA can be as high as 15 or low as 9.50 depending on the particular ink. Its been a few years since I ordered any Waterman, that was €7.50. )

If you think of the price of a cocktail or two, European ink is not that expensive and sure lasts longer.

 

Noodlers inks cost €9.50...of course they have larger bottles. I do have two Golden Brown and Apache Sunset.  Ottoman Azure strikes my fancy, as soon as I get around to it.

 I still have quite a large amount of inks and a few more Continental European inks that I don't have, like Aurora, Akkermann, a Swiss company, Omas, Visconti and that Famous Slovakian ink Sheaffers. :P  

 

Richard didn't mention it, but he makes a safe ink too; Gateway I think it's called.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 18 June 2013 - 17:23.

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For that get a 'flexi' or a "flex" nib.

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#6 rodgerkoopman

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 17:23

Great feedback all; thank you for that. I'll check out the Gateway ink; that could be a good tip.

 

Forgot to mention my 823 truly is my daily writer and has been for the last 3 years. I write a fair bit each day so the pen gets lots of use. Even after flushing with solution and-or cold water, cleaning, regular maintenance, etc. (all of which I do) my 823 would just dry out mid sentence, which is frustrating, especially when you're in a meeting taking copious notes  :)



#7 HDRoot

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:24

The warrantee on Rick Propas's Pelikans is voided if used with PR or Noodlers. I have no experience with either one. I've never had a bad experience with Diamine and usually look there first when I've decided that I need a new ink. Good, solid stuff at a (relatively) reasonable price.



#8 Daisy25

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:31

So how are the Iroshizuku inks faring in all of this?  I love the color and flow in the two I have (and I plan to pick up a few more).  I tend to think of these inks as being particularly "good" inks -- 1) because of how well they perform in my pens and 2) how much they cost.

 

Do I need to be rethinking this?  (I don't know it's possible for me to give up tsuki-yo, though I suppose I could limit the pens I use it in).  


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#9 welch

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:45

Iroshizuku is splendid ink. Asa-gao is my luxury / splurge ink. Diamine is all around good. Diamine Sapphire is not a bad substitute for Asa Gao.

 

I have never had trouble with either Private Reserve or with Noodlers normal inks. I don't need any of the Noodler specialty inks, and I only use Noodlers Blue Eel and Blue...most of the blues tend toward teal, which is not my taste.

 

One warning: the Noodlers and Richard's Gate City inks come in a bottle that tips over easily. If you get one of them, consider decanting to something moe stable, like the Diamine bottle...or the world champion vintage Sheaffer Skrip "topwell" bottle. People often sell empty Skrip bottles on EBay. 


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#10 amberleadavis

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:00

The ink that have stained my pens beyond recognition were all Diamine.  Diamine Grape and Noodler's Demonstrators do  NOT play well together (yes, I should have seen that coming).

 

Some inks are just --- finicky --- for example, BSB and QSH, but others have been trouble free for me for YEARS (Blue Eel and Midway Blue).  Yet, I can tell you that in my pens, BSB had nothing on J. Herbin Anniversary ink for clogging my TWSBI.  I've had 20+year old MB and Skrip ink behave beautifully, and had Pelikan ink clog my pen (and a friend's pen).

 

Bottom line, any ink will give you grief if you let it dry out in your pen (which happens easily when you live in the Nevada desert).  Proper pen hygiene is essential.


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#11 dorothynotgale

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 03:14

Honestly, I've never had any problems with Noodlers, and I use several of their inks as go-tos. The most dangerous I use is the notorious BSB, which can most generously be described as "finicky" (read: stains viciously and requires pampering akin to raising an Egyptian Prince to become Pharaoh), but it's not a hardship for me to flush the pen I use it in regularly.

 

PR inks have been more of a problem to me. I own three: DC Supershow Blue, Velvet Black, and Spearmint.

 

The blue got retired through no fault of its own - I just liked BSB better and haven't looked back since. I plan to offer it for swap soon, as it's a pretty color with a fascinating red sheen.

 

The black has always flowed nicely, but I'm looking foe a replacement because of it's incredibly slow drying time.

 

Spearmint, on the other (third?) hand, is a beautiful green that I loathe using. It gums up everything I put it in within a week.



#12 Meaty0

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:20

I've been using plain old Parker Quink (Black) in my five Parker 75's and two Parker 51's  for the last 10 years without any problems whatsoever.  Interestingly "Richards Pens" article that you linked, bags this ink and praises Waterman inks - I strongly suspect they are one in the same.  So good 'ol black Quink has been the best general purpose ink I have used. 

 

I HAVE had problems with Pelikan 4001 in non-Pelikan pens - it literally drips out of them!  No problems in the Pelikan M600 I use ocassionally though.

 

I'm trying a Noodlers Lubricating Ink in Turquoise with great success so far in all my pens. (Parker, Pelikan, Waterman and Southern Pen Design.)  Nice colour too.

 

EDIT: I must point out that I flush my pens with a weak surfactant/water solution each time before I refill them.  After each third or fourth refill, I pull them apart and clean them completely.


Edited by Meaty0, 19 June 2013 - 05:27.


#13 krz

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:07

No clogging issues here with Noodler's inks. I've used many colors in mostly vintage pens for years now.


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#14 OakIris

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:26

The warrantee on Rick Propas's Pelikans is voided if used with PR or Noodlers. I have no experience with either one. I've never had a bad experience with Diamine and usually look there first when I've decided that I need a new ink. Good, solid stuff at a (relatively) reasonable price.

Whoa, Rick should have this more prominently displayed on his website; I had no idea this was so - luckily I am using Diamine Green-Black in the Pelikan 400 that I purchased from him.  (To be honest, I can't even find anything more about the warranty on his site - the statement that these two ink brands void the warranty is stuck at the bottom of the Tech Talk section on his site, which I didn't even look at until I searched for the info HDRoot mentioned in his post, but otherwise there does not appear to be anything specific about a warranty.)

 

I haven't really started using any Noodlers inks in my pens, though I have some samples and a bottle that someone gave to me, but I do use and like some Private Reserve inks.  Thus far I have had no flow or staining issues with them and like the colors, so seeing that both Richard Binder and Rick Propas have strong reservations - to say the least - about Private Reserve inks is a bit.....disturbing.  I will take extra care to clean and flush the pens  in which I use PR more frequently. (Just realized I have PR Chocolat in my Parker Vacumatic Brown Pearl - maybe I should find a substitute ink....no problems at all yet with the use of this ink, but the thought that I might damage this pen just because of my choice of ink would make me very unhappy.  :(  )

 

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Edited by OakIris, 19 June 2013 - 12:27.


#15 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 13:45

Diamine Grape!!!! :yikes: :unsure: :( :gaah:   .

 

Some one sent me a sample...I got to dig through my records to see which piston pen it's in....take too long to try and find it by writing.

 

Looks like its needle feed a cartridge time.. :bawl:

:headsmack: I forgot that some purples have just a bad reputation as reds for staining piston windows. 


Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For that get a 'flexi' or a "flex" nib.

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#16 wallylynn

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 16:44

 my 823 would just dry out mid sentence

 

I just want to point out that poor flow is not necessarily clogging.  Does flow resume after a rest?  Or is a flush/cleaning necessary to get things going again?  You might want to check out that everything else is in good shape, nib + feed alignment for example.  If air can't get back into the ink reservoir, then ink won't come out.

You might want to try diluting your Noodler's a little and see if that helps if your bottle is overly saturated.

Another possibility is that your bottle is contaminated with STIB (stuff in the bottle).  



#17 CAG_1787

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 20:05

You are more than entitled to take your ink-buying dollars wherever you choose, but I'd be saddened as a fellow FPNer if you chose to completely forgo the Noodler's inks. They form the bulk of my collection and for variety, price, and (yes) performance, they remain my favorites.


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#18 torstar

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 20:41

The ink that have stained my pens beyond recognition were all Diamine.  Diamine Grape and Noodler's Demonstrators do  NOT play well together (yes, I should have seen that coming).

 

Some inks are just --- finicky --- for example, BSB and QSH, but others have been trouble free for me for YEARS (Blue Eel and Midway Blue).  Yet, I can tell you that in my pens, BSB had nothing on J. Herbin Anniversary ink for clogging my TWSBI.  I've had 20+year old MB and Skrip ink behave beautifully, and had Pelikan ink clog my pen (and a friend's pen).

 

Bottom line, any ink will give you grief if you let it dry out in your pen (which happens easily when you live in the Nevada desert).  Proper pen hygiene is essential.

 

 

That about says it all, very good!



#19 TSherbs

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 23:46

..... Spearmint, on the other (third?) hand, is a beautiful green that I loathe using. It gums up everything I put it in within a week.

I love Spearmint (PR), and it has not clogged anything I have had it in (Konrad, Artista, Estebrook J). I haven't had any ink of any kind clog a pen of mine. The problems have always been nib/feed alignment. 



#20 spiv

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 02:38

I use many Noodler's inks. I have yet (knock wood) to experiance clogging. I have a preppy eyedropper dedicated to BSB....it has never been cleaned, another preppy (needle fill cartridge) dedicated to Henry Hudson Blue. I often use El Lawrence and two months ago I inked up six pens with HOD.

I have Naples Blue, American Blue, Supershow Purple, Shoreline Gold, Claret and Arabian Rose in the PR family and at least a half dozen or more from Noodler's.

I have had nib creep, ink in the caps, Rouge Hematite gunk, STIB in two inks (neither was a PR or Noodlers) and a few other issues but never clogging... And so far, I've only cleaned with water. Maybe it's the higher end pens you use, the most expensive units I have are two Lamy 2000s. Maybe you need some nice Esties, a Parker 45 and some Preppies...

Having said that, Diamine makes some lovely inks, if you feel safer with those... Enjoy... They have many to choose from.

#21 JDR

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 13:21

This is a topic that pops up quote frequently.  It gets very heated.  I think this is the topic that prompted the RED, UPPERCASE warning at the top of this page.  You may contact me via PM for my personal experiences with Noodler's and Private Reserve.  But, to answer your question directly: yes, people have had pens damaged/destroyed by using Noodler's and Private Reserve inks.  Other people have had no problems.  I hope this clears things up.



#22 The Good Captain

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 13:30

The warrantee on Rick Propas's Pelikans is voided if used with PR or Noodlers. I have no experience with either one. I've never had a bad experience with Diamine and usually look there first when I've decided that I need a new ink. Good, solid stuff at a (relatively) reasonable price.

This is what the Propas site says:

 

Please note: the use of Private Reserve or Noodlers' inks will void The PENguin warranty. I cannot be responsible for pens in which those inks have been used.

 

To me, this doesn't necessarily mean the actual three-year Pelikan warranty but I could be wrong. Just a word thing.


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#23 mhosea

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 13:46

Not seen any clogging issues, but maybe I'm a little OCD with my cleaning. I don't think I ever go a month without it. I also gravitated away from most of the bulletproof colors on account of, well, their colors but also quicker nib dry out and harder starting in some of my pens. Lucky for me, BSB is too vibrant for me, so I don't have a dog in that hunt, either. I have some experience with Diamine as well and have a hard time regarding Diamine and conventional non-bulletproof Noodler's as very different animals. Never had more than a sample of PR inks, unfortunately.

I just want to point out that, while I seriously doubt that true clogging issues would exist with an aggressive cleaning regimen, poor flow can happen because of thickening due to evaporation, and even Nathan says you don't have to use Noodler's ink full strength. I dilute some of mine as much as 2 parts ink to 1 part distilled water without ill effects and with various good effects. Just dilute in and fill from a separate vial. Also, I can't tell which Noodler's inks you used, but I get the impression that some folks only buy bulletproof colors. If that is you, then you might sort of rephrase your goal in terms of moving away from cellulose reactive inks instead of from all of Noodler's.

Edited by mhosea, 20 June 2013 - 13:47.

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#24 rodgerkoopman

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 14:08

 

I just want to point out that poor flow is not necessarily clogging.  Does flow resume after a rest?  Or is a flush/cleaning necessary to get things going again?  You might want to check out that everything else is in good shape, nib + feed alignment for example.  If air can't get back into the ink reservoir, then ink won't come out.

You might want to try diluting your Noodler's a little and see if that helps if your bottle is overly saturated.

Another possibility is that your bottle is contaminated with STIB (stuff in the bottle).  

 

No, ink flow doesn't resume by itself unless I shake the pen like a thermometer to force the ink back into the capillary channels (which is hard to do discreetly in a business meeting). As JDR points out, some people have had no issues. The thing that concerned me most is a specific mention on Richard's website of actual damage to Pilot feeds when using certain (more alkaline) versions of Noodler's. Since I almost exclusively use my Pilot 823 and given my recent problems with clogging I thought it best to discontinue the use of Noodler's inks. But I used several Noodler's varieties up until recently, which means at least 3-4 years. Regardless, I've found most comments interesting and insightful so I'm glad I asked my questions. Thanks all.



#25 johniem

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 14:35

I use both inks exclusively and have had no problems with them. A couple of my cheap pens developed what seemed to be flow problems, but a thorough cleaning and re-inking with Noodler's or PR, diluted slightly (about 10%) solved the problem. Today I'm using a $13USD Yafa inked with PR Sherwwod Green and having no problem.


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#26 torstar

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 15:38

Play with a large number of Noodler's and you are bound to come up with a few that were irksome.



#27 HDRoot

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 16:23

Rick's talking about his own reconditioned vintage Pels.

 

This is what the Propas site says:

To me, this doesn't necessarily mean the actual three-year Pelikan warranty but I could be wrong. Just a word thing.



#28 mhosea

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:33



 

No, ink flow doesn't resume by itself unless I shake the pen like a thermometer to force the ink back into the capillary channels (which is hard to do discreetly in a business meeting). As JDR points out, some people have had no issues. The thing that concerned me most is a specific mention on Richard's website of actual damage to Pilot feeds when using certain (more alkaline) versions of Noodler's. Since I almost exclusively use my Pilot 823 and given my recent problems with clogging I thought it best to discontinue the use of Noodler's inks. But I used several Noodler's varieties up until recently, which means at least 3-4 years. Regardless, I've found most comments interesting and insightful so I'm glad I asked my questions. Thanks all.

 

BSB is the one and only ink that has been implicated in feed damage.  Setting aside any controversy over what is actually going on there, stay clear of the Baystate inks and you're clear of that issue...to the extent that you are clear of it with any ink of any brand (other than Pilot since your pen is a Pilot).  Clogging is another matter entirely.

 

It's not clear to me whether you are experiencing something related to constricted channels or not.  You know, ultrasonic cleaners are pretty cheap these days.  Sometimes with my sac pens I hold a pen that I do not wish to immerse while it works on the nib and feed.  Point is, if it is a "clogging" issue, it may not be resolved just by changing inks.  You may need to clean the feed.  Of course if you're comfortable pulling the nib and feed, that is another way to go.  I don't know how you feel about Noodler's Blue, but I felt like it was pretty good at sweeping out Bad Blue Heron, which is one of those, like Empire Red, that wouldn't surprise me if it clogged somebody's pen.

 

As for good alternative blue inks, I rank J. Herbin 1670 Bleu Ocean very high in flow and lubricity.  Montblanc Royal Blue and Waterman Blue are also favorites, though I only like either of these in fairly wet pens.  I'd be loathe to recommend a nano-pigmented ink if you're already worried about clogging problems, but I use Sailor Sei Boku a lot.  Sailor inks in general are pretty well saturated and offer good flow.  If you like purple blues, Sailor Ultramarine will flow or nothing will.


Edited by mhosea, 20 June 2013 - 19:46.

I know my id is "mhosea", but you can call me Mike. It's an old Unix thing.


#29 Lazarus Long

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 21:14

I don't currently use any Private Reserve inks, but the only one I had trouble clogging was Tanzanite.

 

Noodler's bullet proof inks tend to clog if left idle for several days.  Black has been the exception, it seems to always start right up.  Because of this, Black is the only bulletproof ink I use much any more. The 'near-bulletproofs' I've used also tend to clog on me. Noodler's regular, non-anything inks are the best behaved.  Purple Heart has some issues though.

 

The only Diamine ink that has ever clogged on me is Majestic Blue, and only after being left idle for a long time.  It is my current favorite ink company - nice colors and very well behaved, and very reasonably priced.  I find I have little reason to choose Noodlers's or Private Reserve over Diamine.



#30 amberleadavis

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 00:56

Play with a large number of Noodler's and you are bound to come up with a few that were irksome.

 

 

And if I really like the color --- it's probably quirky.  


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