"rosin Based" Sealant. How Gloopy?

[Flounder]

Lacking a UK source of the "rosin based" sealant that gets mentioned here every so often, I had a go making some. If anyone's used this stuff, how does mine look? Too thick? Not thick enough? Something else? I'm going to try it out on a couple of 51s at some stage tomorrow, so I'd love to hear from anyone with more experience of the stuff.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2013 by Flounder

[OcalaFlGuy]

I can only give you a comparison to the sealant from Tryphon which I Think is Rosin based. This is the one that needs no heat to release whereas Ron's need around 100 F if I've heard correctly.

 

Tryphon's is more the color of your shellac. Many, Many times thicker than your Rosin sealant. It is nearly a solid it is so tacky. It "strings" when you pull an applicator from it as some glues will do. (And I mean STRINGS! I could probably pull a 2' long unbroken "string" off with no problem.) The clear plastic container is approximately 1 1/4" in diameter and maybe 1/2" high. I suspect just pressing my finger to the sealant would allow the container to hang by it's own weight. The stuff again, is VERY tacky.

Nearly obnoxiously so in application but that's what makes it work so well.

 

IMO, you are Far from being too thick.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Flounder]

Thanks Bruce - man, I didn't know there were two different types! I used a light coloured rosin, so I suppose that accounts for the colour difference, but the rest sounds quite different too. Hmm! Maybe I should try a darker rosin too and see how that goes. I did another test today, the results were pretty... strange

 

 

[framebaer]

hello,

watched your video. Here are my observations:

1) Your shellac is way too thick!!! you can cut it with denatured alcohol. It should be like thin syrup.

 

2) your rosin mix is too thin. Should be a bit thicker. Ideally like toffee. When heated it will thin rapidly.

[Flounder]

Thanks for your very interesting comments, Framebaer! I've always bought my (premixed) shellac from the same source, so I've always just assumed that's the thickness it's supposed to be. What a minefield!

 

I'm beginning to suspect that the different types of rosin sealant have very different qualities, if one (I'm assuming you are referring to the same dark stuff as Bruce) is a toffee like solid, and the other liquid at room temperature (do they have different uses, or something?) .

 

As the brush applicator style bottle would be useless for the toffee-like version, I'm going to make this batch runnier, and get some dark rosin to make into a wee seperate pot of the thicker stuff, to try to figure out what's what.

 

Oh - one last thing, I heated the bottle till it was runny, then reapplied it to the Jinhao. It was stronger than before, when I applied it as a room temp blob. I'm going to do that to a Frontier as well, maybe see if it behaves consistently like that.

[adyf]

Flounder, if it's any help Eric Wilson (eckithump) sold me a small bottle of rosin sealant. He's up in Scotland also.

[rsilver000]

Ron Zorn's sealant is very thick and sticky. Less so when it gets heated. however his sealant does flow even when at room temperature, but not a lot. just don't make the mistake I made with my first container where I left it upside down for about a day...ugghhh

[OcalaFlGuy]

Whereas Tryphon's sealant is about as close to a solid as you can get and still not be a solid.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[penmanila]

i wonder if this is the tryphon sealant being referred to, but i got this off ebay for less than $10 and it's been great with my vacumatics around the section. you do have to use heat to soften it, though, because it's very thick and viscous and yes, stringy.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7399/8721277119_ab60516c91.jpg

[Ron Z]

No. That looks like my thread sealant - same color, same jar. It even looks like a bit of the adhesive from the electrical tape used to seal the jar left behind. I wonder if someone bought it, used a bit and sold the rest.

 

The Tryphon stuff is dark brown, with a tar like odor. This is nearly odor free. I sell it for $10 for a small jar which goes a very long way, plus shipping.

[Ray-Vigo]

The stuff Ron sells is good, and if I needed more I would buy it. I bought a container at the DC show (at least I think it was there) a few years ago and still have it. It even came in the same container as the one pictured above.

[Flounder]

I was given some dark "AB" violin rosin, so made up the separate batch of goo. This one does behave in the more "Tryphon" like fashion: I can lift the container with a light press of my pinky, it's far too thick for an applicator bottle, it strings when pulled up with the darning needle, and it has the texture of toffee. It is terrifically thick, perhaps it still wants a wee bit more castor oil.

 

This stuff seems to behave very differently than the "Theodore" rosin, even when cooking! Certainly way more adhesive as well.

 

Perhaps what's going on here is that the light rosin I used to begin with was too soft - the seller did describe it as having a "slightly sticky interior". In contrast, the darker cake of "A.B" rosin was rock hard. Maybe I'll look for some hard, lighter coloured rosin too - if I can find another container to put it in I'll upload a clip if this headache clears.

 

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/flounder2009/Rosin%20Based%20Fountain%20Pen%20Sealant/DarkerRosin1024.jpg

[Flounder]

Here's the latest batch of sealant attempts. I think these two are closer to what people have been describing - thanks for that everyone, big help. After the dark stuff seemed to work, I gave the Theodore brand another go with more heat, and eventually it did liquify and mix with the castor oil, far better than before. Have a look and see what you think!

 

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

I can't speak to it's sealing properties thru my screen but your darker stuff has a near identical

look to my Tryphon's sealant except I don't get the "greenish" tone thru it that yours appears to in

the vid.

 

If El Zorno sees this, *I* have a question. If approx. 100F is best for Ron's rosin based sealant release and no heat is required for

Tryphon's (which I understood to also be rosin basedn <?>) is this heat/no heat difference due to the two different types

of rosin used Or some additional added ingredient(s)?

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Ron Z]

I still have my jar of Giovanni's sealant. It's much harder and stiffer, and takes a fair bit more heat than mine does to soften to liquid. I used Giovanni's long before I started making mine, which is made to match the Sheaffer sealant in thickness, color and other properties. (it's identical BTW) I looked into making the stuff because I liked it's properties better. The difference may be due to the rosin used. I don't know what all was put in the dark sealant.

 

So Bruce, it's the other way around. I used at least for the two or three jars of sealant that I bought from Giovanni before I started making it. But it's a moot point anyway, isn't it? I don't know that they're still selling repair supplies.

[Kelly G]

I can't speak to it's sealing properties thru my screen but your darker stuff has a near identical

look to my Tryphon's sealant except I don't get the "greenish" tone thru it that yours appears to in

the vid.

 

If El Zorno sees this, *I* have a question. If approx. 100F is best for Ron's rosin based sealant release and no heat is required for

Tryphon's (which I understood to also be rosin basedn <?>) is this heat/no heat difference due to the two different types

of rosin used Or some additional added ingredient(s)?

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

 

Hi Bruce - I've used the Tryphon rosin based sealant for a number of years (I don't think I'll run out of the stuff anytime soon) and I would not recommend using no heat when taking a pen apart that has been sealed with the stuff. It can be done I'm sure, but way too much torque is needed and you would risk cracking what can be fragile materials - especially with vintage pens. That is my experience at least.

 

I usually use the same setting on my heat gun that I use for shellac softening - so around 145 degrees F or so. This temperature will allow easy use of the sealant - but it cools very quickly. I need to get some of Ron's sealant!

[OcalaFlGuy]

I have no idea where, but I'd read somewhere that supposedly Ron's was light heat to release while Tryhpon's was none.

 

I also tend to if anything go pretty lightly with my sealant application. Plus the way I remove a hood is to firmly grasp the filler/clutch ring area with my section pliers and use my thumb and finger to turn the hood.

 

My using less sealant and "seeing with my fingers" has probably helped keep my out of trouble not using heat.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

Edited May 13, 2013 by OcalaFlGuy

[markh]

Whereas Tryphon's sealant is about as close to a solid as you can get and still not be a solid.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

 

 

Is Tryphon still in business?? Their web site (at least the old address that I have) is gone.

 

 

 

.

Edited May 14, 2013 by markh

[Flounder]

I did actually manage to order from Tryphon once, in 2011 (a button fiiler button). Unfortuately that was the only time I ever got through; frustrating because their list of FP stuff sounded great - I would really like to have stocked up on their "pen wax" and other goodies.

 

 

I can't speak to it's sealing properties thru my screen but your darker stuff has a near identical

look to my Tryphon's sealant except I don't get the "greenish" tone thru it that yours appears to in

the vid.

 

 

Bruce, please view the video on your smartphone or tablet, and check the stickyness using the touchscreen

 

edit - forgot to say, I think I've sourced a harder amber rosin, I will try that out when it arrives too.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Flounder

[Flounder]

Here's the last batch of rosin, made using the harder amber. I'm pretty much happy with how these experiments have turned out, so I'm going to call time on them. Thanks everyone who replied to this thread, you were a great help!