Jump to content


Photo

Phileas Phever


  • Please log in to reply
463 replies to this topic

#1 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:51

Well here we go again.

Could these be my pension,

Posted Image

Edited by Force, 11 April 2013 - 04:54.


#2 JonSzanto

JonSzanto

    Generally, sleepy.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,730 posts

Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:56

Hardly. They are never going to go as high as the venerable, old, high-end pens.

Unless by "pension" you are considering living very, very modestly. :)
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

#3 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:59

Hardly. They are never going to go as high as the venerable, old, high-end pens.

Unless by "pension" you are considering living very, very modestly. :)


I bet in 1900 someone said exactly the same... :rolleyes:

#4 JonSzanto

JonSzanto

    Generally, sleepy.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,730 posts

Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:30


Hardly. They are never going to go as high as the venerable, old, high-end pens.

Unless by "pension" you are considering living very, very modestly. :)


I bet in 1900 someone said exactly the same... :rolleyes:

The differences are pretty clear: the Phileas is a fine pen, but they all look exactly alike. There is no variation, to any great extent, as there has been in hand-made pens and all of the variation in celluloids and plastics. No doubt they will still gain some value, but I truly doubt that - in your lifetime - they will attain any kind of high enough value that you can consider anything over a few nice bottles of single malt.
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

#5 Trebor

Trebor

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Flag:

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:21

The Phileas was my first pen. I bought it because it had a reputation as a good, cheap pen.

Given this reputation as a cheap starter pen, I can't see the value appreciating. There's really nothing special about the pen -- it was marketed as a budget pen, had a steel nib (not to knock on steel nibs, but you see where I'm going...), and the color palette was boring/gaudy (at least to me, anyway).

I'm not sure where people get the idea that out of print/manufacturing automatically means that it has value. For the love of all that is fluffy and adorable, these pens were sold in Staples, or so I have read on these forums. There must be tons of them out there.

Having said that, I'll sell you my Phileas at a discount, if you're so insistent on collecting all of them :roflmho: (Note: As I was young and stupid, I also promptly dropped the thing on its nib and bent it :( Alas, you served your purpose, young Phileas)

#6 JonSzanto

JonSzanto

    Generally, sleepy.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,730 posts

Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:54

Trebor, it appears you are fairly new here. Force knows the Phileas backwards and forwards, and knows the market very well. He and I have discussed this on numerous times, and in the last 1-2 years the pen has, on average, doubled it's usual selling price. I used to buy them used for around $20 to encourage others to take up fountain pens; these days, it is difficult to find one (a decent one) for under $40.

My points above still stand: I don't think these will achieve actual vintage pen price points, mainly because of their mass market nature. Nonetheless, you can rest assured that Force certainly knows current market value, which I'm not quite certain you do.

The Phileas was my second pen. ;)
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

#7 Trebor

Trebor

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Flag:

Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:05

You are indeed correct (new to this particular forum and not particularly big Waterman fan) and I defer to you/Force on the market value of Phileas. Those were my intuitive thoughts. The Phileas was desirable because it was a cheap yet relatively quality pen. My mind can't fathom people buying something that used to be cheap at high prices, but I suppose it's happened before.

You've prompted me to do a quick eBay search and I now see that some Phileases are going for... substantially more than what I would have considered the market price for a new one a few years ago (about $40). This leaves me scratching my head, but to each his own.

#8 mrcharlie

mrcharlie

    Peacock Blue

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 656 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 April 2013 - 20:25


Hardly. They are never going to go as high as the venerable, old, high-end pens.

Unless by "pension" you are considering living very, very modestly. :)


I bet in 1900 someone said exactly the same... :rolleyes:

  • Are you planning on living another 100+ years?
  • Most of the price increase in 100 year old pens is inflation. The value of a non-black Esterbrook "dollar pen" purchased for $1.50 in 1935 in 2013 dollars is $25.42. You can still buy one now in the $20 to $30 range. Not a good investment.


#9 Sasha Royale

Sasha Royale

    Museum Piece

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,922 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 April 2013 - 20:51

At the end of March 2013, looks like $60 for a NOS Phileas.
How many ya got ? More than ten, I hope.

#10 gweddig

gweddig

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 325 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 April 2013 - 21:42

Thanks for posting this, I just found one of these today boxed with papers at the Salvation Army. Green marbled, not really my style but it is in terrific shape. What years was the Phileas active (roughly), 1990s? Thanks!

--greg

#11 mrcharlie

mrcharlie

    Peacock Blue

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 656 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 11 April 2013 - 22:46

I bought two new from dealer in 2005 for about $25 each. They were in at least one of the US big box office supply stores at that same time, in a "kit" with a bottle of ink and a handful of carts for about $40.

I don't know the exact end of production, but 2005 or 2006 was the last time I saw them in the office supply stores.

#12 Stylus156

Stylus156

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 62 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:43

Investment or not, they're incredible pens for the price. Good quality, unique design, excellent performance.

I too will likely invest in one or two if a fair opportunity arises...

Impressive photography too.

Respectfully,
M.


#13 nm4

nm4

    Vintage

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:53

They are nice pens for sure - my M nib was one of the smoothest pens I've owned. As they pass the $60-70 mark I do think the Phileas are eclipsed by several other pens with higher quality bodies, caps, and clips.

Cheers,
NM
Cross ATX XF nib and Sheaffer 444X F nib for sale in the classifieds!

#14 Ray-Vigo

Ray-Vigo

    Parts Bin Denizen

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,619 posts
  • Location:Virginia
  • Flag:

Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:08

I see the less common early colors picking up a fair bit of value. I don't think the more common "marble" ones from later will ever be worth big bucks, at least at a market price. There are always a few people around who overpay.

Edited by Ray-Vigo, 12 April 2013 - 04:10.


#15 MarneM

MarneM

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 302 posts
  • Location:Athens, Georgia
  • Flag:

Posted 12 April 2013 - 13:02

Perhaps instead of the typical retirement jobs, you can just spend some time on the side of the road with a sign that says, "Will ink for food?" B)

Such a pretty rainbow!
"Wer schweigt, stimmt zu."

#16 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 27 July 2013 - 16:06

you were saying.....here



#17 RMN

RMN

    Museum Piece

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,360 posts
  • Location:the Netherlands
  • Flag:

Posted 27 July 2013 - 18:22

Force, looks like you're sitting on a goldmine.

 

D.ick


The FPN-Stipula LE 2011 and 2012, too .:

....GOT THEM!!!!!!


#18 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 27 July 2013 - 18:46

I am just lost for words on that...I paid £15 for one a few months ago.



#19 recluse

recluse

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 233 posts
  • Location:Orlando, FL

Posted 27 July 2013 - 21:10

you were saying.....here

 

For the sake of my own sanity I assume that the first bidder put 1200 instead of 12.00 and then two fellows just kept trying to rich the bottom.



#20 spraine

spraine

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 213 posts
  • Location:Central Valley, California
  • Flag:

Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:46

Hi-

 

I have two Phileas pens.  P/N of the red marbled model is 19714-WA.

 

My wife loves this model with its F nib, but would love a BB nib for it.

(her desire came from writing with an MB 146 BB)

 

Is it possible to get a BB nib for the Phileas?

Can I change the nib myself?

 

* But a concern: I seem to recall hearing that the Medium Waterman Phileas nib is a very wet writer?

(so if a BB exists, how wet would IT be!?)

 

Moot point if a BB doesn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 



#21 recluse

recluse

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 233 posts
  • Location:Orlando, FL

Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:02

Yes, the nibs can be easily changed but I doubt they had stock BB nibs. I've never seen even broads around. Judging from the pens that I have, Phileas's medium nib is rather on the wider side of their fine nibs in other inexpensive models (whose mediums, indeed, are pretty wide).



#22 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:26

Hi-

 

I have two Phileas pens.  P/N of the red marbled model is 19714-WA.

 

My wife loves this model with its F nib, but would love a BB nib for it.

(her desire came from writing with an MB 146 BB)

 

Is it possible to get a BB nib for the Phileas?

Can I change the nib myself?

 

* But a concern: I seem to recall hearing that the Medium Waterman Phileas nib is a very wet writer?

(so if a BB exists, how wet would IT be!?)

 

Moot point if a BB doesn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

Somewhere along its way it has been placed into the wrong box. I suspect at the shop who sold it because I have seen that error before. They get them out to show peps and place them back into the wrong boxes. 19714 is the catalogue number for the Black, 19707 being the correct number for the Red Marble.

 

They, both early and late models, were only available in EF, F, M and B nibs.

 

What a strange world we are in when this wonderful Exclusive is on lap 2 and still has no bids.

 

I have a spare Indus if someone wants a straight swap for a Gloss Red Carene with Stub nib, mint boxed of course (here in the UK) :rolleyes:


Edited by Force, 28 July 2013 - 04:43.


#23 spraine

spraine

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 213 posts
  • Location:Central Valley, California
  • Flag:

Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:10

Thanks, Force.

 

I think my pens are from the early '90s.

 

Here's the label on the box:

 

WatermanPhilFineBoxLabel1a.JPG


Edited by spraine, 28 July 2013 - 06:11.


#24 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:28

Not sure when the colours changed but yes maybe but I think they would/should have retained their code,

 

I have a 90 salesmans catalogue and the Phileas is not listed. So they must appear after.

 

fpn_1374992838__dscn0186.jpg


Edited by Force, 28 July 2013 - 06:36.


#25 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:54

In contrast, these pens were born in the 90's and are still here to enjoy, yet while I have been sitting here, in my conservatory, these Hibiscus twins opened and will drop tomorrow.....

 

fpn_1374994413__dscn0196.jpg


Edited by Force, 28 July 2013 - 06:59.


#26 Runnin_Ute

Runnin_Ute

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,946 posts
  • Location:Sandy, Utah
  • Flag:

Posted 29 July 2013 - 01:15

The Phileas is one of my favorite pens ( I have two - a red marbled fine and a black medium). The paperwork that came with the black one is dated 2007. The other has the nice booklet and is undated. It does give a Janesville, WI address for Waterman USA. I bought the red marbled in the late 1990's or early 2000's from Levenger, the black from the Classifieds here on FPN in December 2012. (NOS) I paid around $50 for the red, and $45 for the black.

 

You have a real nice collection of the Phileas Force. (I paid about $32.99 from OfficeMax for a Hemisphere rollerball in 1998 that included a pen case - MSRP was $45) Mine are #5 and #6 from the right.


Brad "Words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind" - Rudyard Kipling

"None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain

LetterExchange_sm.png


#27 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 29 July 2013 - 04:19



The Phileas is one of my favorite pens ( I have two - a red marbled fine and a black medium). The paperwork that came with the black one is dated 2007. The other has the nice booklet and is undated. It does give a Janesville, WI address for Waterman USA. I bought the red marbled in the late 1990's or early 2000's from Levenger, the black from the Classifieds here on FPN in December 2012. (NOS) I paid around $50 for the red, and $45 for the black.

 

You have a real nice collection of the Phileas Force. (I paid about $32.99 from OfficeMax for a Hemisphere rollerball in 1998 that included a pen case - MSRP was $45) Mine are #5 and #6 from the right.

Your red is Mississippi Red, from the early colours which also included Amazon Green, Danube Blue and Indus Grey. My collection has one more, an all Red and I have my eye on an all Blue.

 

I sold one to pay off the mortgage,

 

fpn_1375071718__dscn0448.jpg

 


Edited by Force, 29 July 2013 - 04:23.


#28 esteroids

esteroids

    Extremely Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 284 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 29 July 2013 - 14:47

I find it disorienting when I can sell a Phileas and buy a nice Charleston and have money left over.  This happened to me a short while ago.



#29 Force

Force

    Fergus

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,329 posts
  • Location:The Real Garden of England
  • Flag:

Posted 29 July 2013 - 16:54

I have posted this link because one picture is of the box label. I believe this shows there were changes in the numbering system between the first and second series.

 

This Black is listed as 19704.

 

Not to mention the asking price....I said not to mention it :yikes:


Edited by Force, 29 July 2013 - 17:00.


#30 Pmantis

Pmantis

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze

  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 13 August 2013 - 19:02

Hello I am new to this forum, and am in search of a replacement cap for my phileas blue marble fountain pen. I was wondering if any one has a broken or damaged phileas fountain pen you would be willing to sell. If not and you could point me in the right direction that would be greatly appreciated! Thank you and God bless!