Pelikan M1005 Nib/advice

[kaan]

Hi all

 

I've been reading a lot of topics here lately, and finally decided to join.

 

After feeding my thirst for notebooks, mechanical pens, I stumbled onto fountain pens, and got obsessed. Immediately ordered an M205 Blue Demonstrator (M Nib) with Pelikan Mandarin ink, thinking I would get to know fountain pens and use it to write title's n stuff. It didn't arrive yet.

 

Now I'm thinking of getting an M1005 Demonstrator, to use it while thinking and writing, scrambling, I'm from a technical background, so I decided to get one with an F Nib.

 

However I'm very frustrated, don't know If I will be wasting the money by getting an F Nib. Hopefully, It will be 'the' pen for me, so can't decide whether I should get an M or B Nib, so that it can differentiate itself from rollerballs and stuff?

 

Another matter is the size of the M1005, I'm unsure whether it's too big or not. M800 Demonstrator also looks nice, seems smaller. Are Pelikan's easy to grip?

 

I would be really glad If I can get any advice,

Thanks in Advance

[irrigger]

I would suggest going to a B&M or a penshow and actually trying out a M1000 sized pen with the nib you are interested in first. These are large pens for alot of people and that could be a deal breaker for you. The Pelikan nibs also run on the wider side and you may find that a fine is too wide for you or the bold like a paint brush.

Just by using a fountain pen there will be enough difference from rollerballs and ballpoints.

As for gripping Pelikans, I have a few and have no troubles with them. I find them comfortable and easy to grip.

[Shaporama]

These are not cheap pens. Would you spend a lot for a car you did not test drive? Would you buy expensive shoes without trying on a pair? The m1005 is a big, heavy pen that could feel imbalanced in smaller hands. It sports an enormous, springy (not flex) and wet nib that is not to everyone's liking. Buying without trying is a big mistake. Big mistake.

[Nibwitz]

Second these reactions; try first, the feel in the hand etc.

 

Concerning the nib: The M1000/5 'F' writes like a 'M'. Not 'fine' at all.

[kaan]

Thanks a lot for the useful feedback, I wish I had a chance to test it, but I don't.

 

I got the M205 today, M205 is a miniature of a pen, I was surprised how small it is, it was an interesting and very inky experience, I'm glad I started with a washable and imperfect ink, I have several questions, not so related with the topic, I will be really glad If you can answer them. (all beginner questions)

 

1. The pen only writes with a less then 45 degrees angle, is this expected? (I guess, for this reason I would be better of with a bigger pen, its not so easy to write with this little pen at low angle).
   
2. With little to no pressure, the pen doesn't write, for it to write properly, I have to apply some pressure to the paper, at the magnitude that you can hear the nib rub the paper (not so much that paper gets damaged, but a considerable pressure.).
   
3. At this pressure, Pelikan Mandarin ink shows through normal paper and moleskine plain paper (99% I use Moleskine plain notebooks), The reason I got edelstein ink is that they are easily findable, do you have any ink or notebook suggestions? How are other edelstein inks compared to mandarin? I will probably get 2 other inks, thinking about onyx and 1 other.
   
4. I pumped a small amount of ink to the pen (30% ish), and removed the air after pumping the ink. Is it safe to use the pen with 30% ink, 70% air? (pump completely pulled off), or should the air always be removed after some usage?
   

 

Based on your answers, I think I can better understand fountain pens and make an educated decision before buying a new pen. M1005 is ~990$'s in Turkey, F and B nibs are available, they are 620-730 on ebay, (worst case, with import tax [if they decide to hold it], they become 730*1.2=876$'s, still less, and arrives in 2-3 weeks). It seems a bit safer to buy locally, also much much faster, with these prices, what would your decisions be?

[Shaporama]

Regarding your new M205 (and presuming that the pen was purchased new), did you flush the nib before the first use? Many new pens arrive with residue from the manufacturing process. Its not uncommon for oils, etc to foul the nib. If you have not done so already, flush the nib with a simple solution of 10:1 cool water and pure ammonia and include just a drop of liquid soap. Try 5 or 6 fill/flush cycles with the cleaning solution, then another 5 or 6 cycles with just clear, cool water. This may help. Also, many FPN'ers have reported their unhappiness with Moleskine paper. Have you tried writing on other surfaces? Finally, Pelikan recommends that you completely fill the ink chamber, the expel 3 drops of ink to help dislodge any air bubbles.

 

What amazes me is that you are still considering buying an M1005 without first holding one in your hands: "M205 is a miniature of a pen, I was surprised how small it is". I would have thought you would have learned that lesson when you took delivery of the M205. Guess not.

[nm4]

The M205 is actually a standard sized pen. The 600/800/1000 are varying degrees of oversize. Think about it: the M205 is still bigger than most disposable rollerball and ballpoint pens that people use. Now if it doesn't fit your hand well that's a different issue entirely.

 

Cheers,

NM

[adaml]

hi. i was recently in a similar situation (wanting a m1005). i had seen m205 demonstrators in the classified section of this forum for $120-150ish and i was at my local pen store looking to try several pens and i saw a pelikan demonstrator and asked to try it (since i thought it was an m205). turns out it was a m1005 and the nib felt amazing. i could not stop thinking about it and though i am quite new at fountain pens, i got enough money for the m1005 for my birthday and it was all i could think about so i bought one from that very same store. it IS a big pen. i thought that this adds to the fun of it. it feels very substantial and is weighted away from the nib due to the extra weight of the piston filler mechanism. it is especially long and back-end heavy when posted, but in my opinion still feels good. i choose to write with it unposted when in class taking notes because the size is ridiculous and it still writes quite well when not posted. i have the M nib and though i thought i was getting the F nib, the M is quite nice. it seems appropriate that such a big pen should have a broader nib and write quite bold, which is true even of the medium. i should also tell you that my pelikan did not write well from the factory. the nib was smooth as butter but it would slow start and skip like no tomorrow. i would have gotten rid of it if the nib were not so amazingly buttery smooth! so i sent it to john mottishaw and $200+ dollars later after a straightening of the tines and slight regrind i have a wonderfully amazing pen, BUT IT WAS NOT CHEAP.

 

hope all this helps, but i agree that you should find somewhere to try it out because it is a large commitment and there could be some other pen you would like even more.

[Nibwitz]

Yes the M1000 looks ridiculous when posted.

I think it's unbelievable that such an expensive top-of-the-line Pelikan isn't perfect right away, but needs expensive regrinding by a nib-expert.

That's just not acceptable.

[DanielCoffey]

Regarding the writing angle... remember fountain pens are not ballpoints. They do need a different writing angle as you have discovered. Ballpoints need a steep angle and lots of pressure just to work properly and you have to learn the new hand position, light touch and writing angle to get the best out of your fountain pen.

 

What did you mean by "imperfect ink" by the way? Pelikan ink is definitely mainstream quality. Before you waste any more money, have a look at the Ink Exchange thread in the Inky Thoughts forum for folks willing to send small samples of ink to your area of the world... but be aware that Pelikans are not the easiest pens to wash properly when changing ink brands and colours.

[Silent Speaker]

... but be aware that Pelikans are not the easiest pens to wash properly when changing ink brands and colours.

I disagree as I've found it to be quite the contrary:

The fact that one can remove the nib unit from Souveräns easily to soak/flush out really stubborn inks means that it is far easier to do a proper clean than many other pens with integrated fillers (eg. the Meisterstück line).

 

Sure, perhaps there is some wear involved with all that unscrewing etc., so it's probably best to leave such operations for moments of real need (like when changing from inks that have one property to those with drastically different ones).

 

-=-=-=-=-=-

As to the OP, kaan:

 

Regarding the writing angle... remember fountain pens are not ballpoints. They do need a different writing angle as you have discovered. Ballpoints need a steep angle and lots of pressure just to work properly and you have to learn the new hand position, light touch and writing angle to get the best out of your fountain pen.

Agreed. I suggest that, once you've flushed the pen properly etc., as Shaporama has advised (if you've not done so already) to perhaps post a picture of how you hold the pen to the page; once you've done all you can on your side to correct any mistakes (in regards to angles and pressure etc.,), if the pen is still playing up then you can look to possible manufacturing defects or nib issues.

I didn't notice in your post, but is this your first experience with using a fountain pen?

[Shaporama]

hi. i was recently in a similar situation (wanting a m1005). i had seen m205 demonstrators in the classified section of this forum for $120-150ish and i was at my local pen store looking to try several pens and i saw a pelikan demonstrator and asked to try it (since i thought it was an m205). turns out it was a m1005 and the nib felt amazing. i could not stop thinking about it and though i am quite new at fountain pens, i got enough money for the m1005 for my birthday and it was all i could think about so i bought one from that very same store. it IS a big pen. i thought that this adds to the fun of it. it feels very substantial and is weighted away from the nib due to the extra weight of the piston filler mechanism. it is especially long and back-end heavy when posted, but in my opinion still feels good. i choose to write with it unposted when in class taking notes because the size is ridiculous and it still writes quite well when not posted. i have the M nib and though i thought i was getting the F nib, the M is quite nice. it seems appropriate that such a big pen should have a broader nib and write quite bold, which is true even of the medium. i should also tell you that my pelikan did not write well from the factory. the nib was smooth as butter but it would slow start and skip like no tomorrow. i would have gotten rid of it if the nib were not so amazingly buttery smooth! so i sent it to john mottishaw and $200+ dollars later after a straightening of the tines and slight regrind i have a wonderfully amazing pen, BUT IT WAS NOT CHEAP.

 

hope all this helps, but i agree that you should find somewhere to try it out because it is a large commitment and there could be some other pen you would like even more.

 

With all due respect, spending $200 to regrind the nib and straighten the tines seems really excessive! If it was just a matter of a defective nib, you could have returned it to Pelikan for a replacement at no charge.

[kaan]

Thanks a lot for great advice (Yes this is my first experience)

 

I guess I indeed needed to wash the pen, so I did, very strange thing I noticed is that, I'm 80% sure there is a gap behind where the nib screws and the cap comes, there was orange ink that didn't wash out, I left the pen inside the water for 20-30 minutes, so the ink came out, however, there is still some steam in that place, I might dig on that further some time, maybe post some shots, but I guess it would be really hard to capture it in a photo.

 

I'm really impatient, so I bought another M200 Demonstrator, this time transparent from a local seller with B and an OM Nib as an extra nib, I'm really curious how they write, I have a feeling oblique would suit me perfectly, because I realized that I always hold pens at a right angle while writing.

I also ordered the local M1005 with an F nib, and some L'Artisan inks and an Edelstein Aventurine ink to experiment, so hopefully I will gather a lot of experience in a short time.

 

I really hope the F Nib works out, otherwise I might research about the Nib Exchange thing and try to get an oblique nib.

 

As for the trying before buying thing, I guess I like adapting to items, the logic is, pelikan pens are really liked, M1000 is a great pen, so I should come to like it too. (Did never buy a car, but bought 2 not very expensive motorcycles before trying, didn't turn out so bad

 

I will try all the pens in some time, and post my thoughts

Edited January 23, 2013 by kaan

[bebofch]

Regarding the size of 1005. I had a M nib when I purchased it and it was just like writing with a Chinese brush..too crazy for me. I put it for aside for quite awhile till I got a new EF nib for it. Now it's much easier to use, but my hands still get tired after writing with it for awhile... For M205 I can write for hours and will never get tired

[adaml]

hi. i was recently in a similar situation (wanting a m1005). i had seen m205 demonstrators in the classified section of this forum for $120-150ish and i was at my local pen store looking to try several pens and i saw a pelikan demonstrator and asked to try it (since i thought it was an m205). turns out it was a m1005 and the nib felt amazing. i could not stop thinking about it and though i am quite new at fountain pens, i got enough money for the m1005 for my birthday and it was all i could think about so i bought one from that very same store. it IS a big pen. i thought that this adds to the fun of it. it feels very substantial and is weighted away from the nib due to the extra weight of the piston filler mechanism. it is especially long and back-end heavy when posted, but in my opinion still feels good. i choose to write with it unposted when in class taking notes because the size is ridiculous and it still writes quite well when not posted. i have the M nib and though i thought i was getting the F nib, the M is quite nice. it seems appropriate that such a big pen should have a broader nib and write quite bold, which is true even of the medium. i should also tell you that my pelikan did not write well from the factory. the nib was smooth as butter but it would slow start and skip like no tomorrow. i would have gotten rid of it if the nib were not so amazingly buttery smooth! so i sent it to john mottishaw and $200+ dollars later after a straightening of the tines and slight regrind i have a wonderfully amazing pen, BUT IT WAS NOT CHEAP.

 

hope all this helps, but i agree that you should find somewhere to try it out because it is a large commitment and there could be some other pen you would like even more.

 

With all due respect, spending $200 to regrind the nib and straighten the tines seems really excessive! If it was just a matter of a defective nib, you could have returned it to Pelikan for a replacement at no charge.

i forgot to mention the piston filler was also damaged and i asked for rush delivery but i had no idea it would be THAT expensive. it is ridiculous that it didnt work well from the factory.

[kaan]

I got the M1005 with F Nib, today, great pen, I would suggest it to a complete starter, not as big as it looks, really fun nib, however It's not perfect out of the box.

 

I also had the chance to Test M200's with M,B,OM Nibs, the stock M Nib that my 205 demonstrator had was extremely dry, so I had to research about making it wet, and I ended up making it wet, which is great, however, all of the Nibs that I have with M200's have minor problems. I would suggest staying away from M200's if you can. Thinking about getting M400/M600 EF/F Nibs for them, because all of the inks I have makes them bleed through the page, and the nibs either scratch or click (on default, they were like that, I didn't screw them : ). I also bought Moleskine Watercolor and sketch notebooks to test them with FP's, however sketch doesn't absorb the ink well, makes pens go dry and out of ink, and watercolor is great but requires a bit too much friction force to overcome its textures, so I decided to stick to regular plains.

 

M1005 with L'Artisan Callifolio Noir Black Ink is perfect, the ink never bleeds through pages, which is great, however I'm having serious cold start issues, If you draw a cold line, the first 1cm is inkless, but after that, it's all good. Strangely, the pen writes perfect backwards (Top of the Nib), and doesn't have any cold start issues backwards (at least less cold start issues to none). I'm unsure whether I should change the ink to overcome the issues, or wash the pen more. I will probably have to wash the pen, let it dry, try another ink, try the black again etc to see how it goes.

 

It's important to note that, as M200's have a gap between the screws that lets ink and water in, M1000 also has that gap, now that gap is filled with some L'Artisan ink in mine, and since it's not a washable ink, I'm thinking of buying an Edelstein Onyx, just to not stain the pen forever.

 

Any advices on the cold start issues? Should I change ink, wash the pen more, or can there be a problem with the nib, since it writes backwards better?

 

Thanks in Advance for your help

[kaan]

I am guessing it's a baby bottom syndrome as mentioned here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/187706-five-bad-things-that-happen-with-new-pens/

I've found my 60x money inspector and checked all the pens, no visible tine misalignments etc, however, M1005's one tine is slightly puffed up then the other (visible to the naked eye)

 

I mean, when you look at the nib horizontally, you can see one tine higher than the other, but when they meet, they seem to be in line, so it's like, one tine is ~0.1mm(maybe less) puffed up, from the tip to the hole on the nib. but like I said, on the tip, they are in line.

 

Is this expected?

[The Good Captain]

I love your generalisation about 'staying away from M200s if you can.' Personally, I'll be staying well clear of M1000s in any shape or form, based on most of your other comments. My 200s et al are all far better behaved.

[kaan]

I love your generalisation about 'staying away from M200s if you can.' Personally, I'll be staying well clear of M1000s in any shape or form, based on most of your other comments. My 200s et al are all far better behaved.

 

I washed the pen again, put another ink before drying the pen too much, with some water still in the pen, but micro amounts, I couldn't believe the extreme difference in flow, it went from dry, fine to extremely wet,BB (l'artisan noir to pelikan edelstein aventurine). There were no cold start issues or whatsoever. I cleaned the pen again and filled it with noir again. It was writing much better.

After 5 hours, I tested the pen, and it was writing perfectly from the start. Hopefully it will keep on working that way, I have a feeling I will experience dryness or flow problems rarely, but I guess I can accept that as the character of the pen.

 

A nice disclaimer is, after having 3 demonstrators, those ink stains between the screws are kind of permanent, tried leaving the M1005 in water for an hour, it had no intention to come off. I'm a bit regretful of not using a pelikan edelstein ink, they seem to be more clean, the l'artisan black ink is like pure darkness, It stains, it blocks the view etc. so not pretty (you can't even see air in the reservoir, viscosity is very low, is it expected with inks, can it be too old of an ink?). But with my other pen/ink combos penetrating the page all the time, I can't complain much, don't want to take the risk right now trying other inks, that will probably fix the flow issues, but introduce other problems.

 

Overall, If I could do it all again with this experience, I could buy the M1005 Demo and skip the 200's. I personally like the weight,size and the material. To be on the economical side, I would buy an M200 Demonstrator with the best EF Nib possible, maybe an M600 one, in reality M200 Demonstrators doesn't look bad as in pictures, has a good feeling in the hand, better than the M205 blue demonstrator. So if anyone reads these in the future, in a similar situation, hope it helps.

[Nibwitz]

I must confess your (Kaan) text puzzles me a little, perhaps I don't understand it completely.

 

However, the direct comparison of the M200 and the M1000/5 is a bit odd. You're comparing two pens that are at either end of the pen market. It's as if you compare the BMW 1 series to the 7 series.

Both have their own strongpoints, I do not need to tell you that the 7 is not the best car in a small Italian village. You might get stuck and need to continue your way on foot...

 

I agree that the nibs of the M200 are likely to have a flaw, out of the factory. But perhaps that also counts for the golden Souverän nibs.

Anyway, as I stated earlier, a good writing M200 is not a pen to 'stay away' from, on the contrary, it belongs in the top 10 list of pens, at any price, and is therefore a very good starting pen for persons new to fountain pens.

The M1000/5 isn't. It is a bit awkward to me, does not have the right proportions, esthetically, and was clearly a pen that Pelikan needed to bring on the market just to compete with The Big 149 of Montblanc. Big doesn't equal beautiful.

It is however a very good fountain pen, that's surely true.

But the most beautiful Pelikan? Don't think so. The best 'starting pen? Not at all. For most hands it will be to large. For most starters it will write too wet and too wide.

In my opinion a far too intimidating pen to start with.

First take the controls of a Cessna before taking off with the big bird, the 747-800 of fountain pens...

 

Interesting to read that the M1005 apparently has the same tendency as the (my) M200 Demonstrator to let ink creep between the nib unit and the barrel.