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Diamine Vs. Pilot's Iroshizuku


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#31 pelahale

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 16:46

for me, it's not all about the color and shading. Most Iroshizuku & Diamine inks have nice colors and shade, but in my personal testing on the paper I use most which are primarily Clairefontaines, Apicas, & some others at home, and standard crappy 20lb copy paper at work, Iroshizuku has clear advantages. Iroshizuku inks generally stay neat & perfect on both premium & (bleep) paper & dry 2x or more faster, thus allowing me to avoid smearing and other mess on legal documents where you don't get a second chance - the work day moves fast, no time for sitting, waiting, blotting, etc. I agree that these inks are overpriced & I wished I could be satisfied to go back to cheap ink, but once you work with Iroshizuku inks, it's hard to look back. I think Pilot research focused not only on the color & marketing (which they did in abundance), but their ink scientists have formulated these inks for practical use characteristics in a way almost no other inkmaker has til now. I've found the Edelstein inks also behave very predictably also and their dry times are better than most, but slightly longer than most iroshizukus.

#32 PAC 1957

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 17:41

Seems like the price is what matters here.

There is very little talk about the quality of inks here. If you remove the price tag, which one would you PICK (versus BUY)?

This is where a double blind study would be very useful because I feel there is too much of a bias due to the price (and a minor bias due to which country the inks represents).

So back to the question - at least proposed: Which one is considered a better quality brand?

The Iroshizuku has better quality.

The Iroshizuku inks have a lubricating feel to them. I've tried roughly half of the inks and own a forth of their selection and they all perform flawlessly. Now, what do I mean flawlessly? They are lubricating - makes the contact of paper and pen - feel much better than when using a drier ink. Iro inks are very pleasant to use. With the Iro inks are less prone to feather and bleed through the paper but with Diamine, they are more prone to feather and bleed.

Diamine inks are by no means bad but they are of lower quality than Iro inks. When you write with Diamine inks they do not feel as lubricating as the Iro inks. This is not to say that Diamine inks are generally not lubricating - because they are - but not to the extent which Iro has.

The Lubrication in the Iro inks just feels better when writing.

Hi,
I totally agree.The main competitor to Diamine is Noodler"s not Diamine; the main competitor to Iroshizuku is Caran D'Ache ( but also the Pelikan Edelsteins , Momtblanc, Omas, Stipula and previously the now discontinued Parker Penman line ). These inks compete in the high end ink market niche, whereas Diamine and Noodler's are medium range ; I'm talking about the inks and their overall performance, not about their "presentation"( bottles).
Best
Piero

Edited by PAC 1957, 03 January 2013 - 17:42.


#33 reval

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 17:56

I consider them both reliable, high quality ink brands. I prefer Diamine because of its price, but inks from both brands are among my favorites.



#34 Pengrump

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 18:16

Some of my favorite Diamine colors clog my pens, even if I water the ink down. I've never had that happen with Iroshizuku. Iroshizuku tends to lubricate better as well. That being said, I have about three times as many bottles of Diamine as Iroshzuku, both because of price and color choices. There are many nice Iroshizuku colors, but there are even more by Diamine.

#35 leod

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 20:58

Quality: Iroshizuku
Quantity: Diamine
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing

#36 mhphoto

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:21

They're both great inks. Get whatever color tickles you.

#37 tnmike1

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 14:22

I really think Iro is the better ink. Better performance qualities, all that I've tried are water resistant, their shading is far superior and they rinse out of the pen with amazing ease. As for pricing, some of us use very little ink over the course of a year, so $28-35 per bottle really isn't all that much given the quality of the ink
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#38 AlejoPlay

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 15:27

I really think Iro is the better ink. Better performance qualities, all that I've tried are water resistant, their shading is far superior and they rinse out of the pen with amazing ease. As for pricing, some of us use very little ink over the course of a year, so $28-35 per bottle really isn't all that much given the quality of the ink


But for $28-35 you can get several colors of Diamine. I guess it's okay if you use only one color and one pen every year. But that's not realistic for some. That said, once I go to Japan in March I'll stock up on 4 or so bottles and pay the $15-$18 for each (which I think they are worth). It's just hard for me to justify paying a markup on something that isn't worth that much in its home country (and the price differential is to pay for the shipping of the heavy bottles which has NOTHING to do with the ink). I wish Pilot would get with the program and manage to sell the ink in the US at a similar price point that they sell in Japan. Sailor does it, why can't they?

#39 Laura N

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 15:52

... I wish Pilot would get with the program and manage to sell the ink in the US at a similar price point that they sell in Japan. Sailor does it, why can't they?


In addition to the extra costs of shipping the heavy bottles, it looks like Pilot has positioned Iroshizuku as a premium line. Maybe like a Veblen good?

Compare that to the Pilot Metropolitan, which Pilot reportedly sells for less in the U.S. than in Japan, possibly to stimulate sales.

It's interesting. Maybe it's like HP's printer/ink pricing strategy. :)

#40 AlejoPlay

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 15:57


... I wish Pilot would get with the program and manage to sell the ink in the US at a similar price point that they sell in Japan. Sailor does it, why can't they?


In addition to the extra costs of shipping the heavy bottles, it looks like Pilot has positioned Iroshizuku as a premium line. Maybe like a Veblen good?

Compare that to the Pilot Metropolitan, which Pilot reportedly sells for less in the U.S. than in Japan, possibly to stimulate sales.

It's interesting. Maybe it's like HP's printer/ink pricing strategy. :)


I can see it being premium considering the cost of regular Pilot Ink in Japan is a fraction of Iro inks. There's nothing wrong with that. I've paid retail for Herbin inks which come in tiny bottles but I feel the price is fair. Pilot puts Iros on the $18 level in Japan, which is fair, but to pay nearly 2x that in the US because of the cost of import is a no-go for me. At $35 a bottle, an ink better make me breakfast and give me cab fare in the morning. :roflmho:

#41 Lloyd

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 16:33

But for $28-35 you can get several colors of Diamine.

And for the cost of a filet mignon you can get a dozen Big Macs.

(just an example...I'm a vegetarian so I'd chose neither)
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#42 AlejoPlay

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 16:48


But for $28-35 you can get several colors of Diamine.

And for the cost of a filet mignon you can get a dozen Big Macs.

(just an example...I'm a vegetarian so I'd chose neither)


I don't know if that's the proper analogy. It's more like. You can get a filet mignon or you can get a filet mignon that was flown overnight wrapped in parchment paper and held by a nun. Or something.

(and really I'm just frustrated because I love Japanese inks and Iros are cost prohibitive for me as they are sold in the US. I will stock up when I go to Japan on vacation . . . which is also cost prohibitive. LOL. I just wish they sold at the same price point here in the US that they do in Japan. I'd happily pay $18-$20 here for them).

#43 Lloyd

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 17:04

See next post.


Edited by Lloyd, 04 January 2013 - 17:11.

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#44 Lloyd

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 17:05



But for $28-35 you can get several colors of Diamine.

And for the cost of a filet mignon you can get a dozen Big Macs.

(just an example...I'm a vegetarian so I'd chose neither)


I don't know if that's the proper analogy. It's more like. You can get a filet mignon or you can get a filet mignon that was flown overnight wrapped in parchment paper and held by a nun. Or something.

(and really I'm just frustrated because I love Japanese inks and Iros are cost prohibitive for me as they are sold in the US. I will stock up when I go to Japan on vacation . . . which is also cost prohibitive. LOL. I just wish they sold at the same price point here in the US that they do in Japan. I'd happily pay $18-$20 here for them).

I thought Engeika sold them in plastic bottles for that price range.
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#45 AlejoPlay

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 17:13




But for $28-35 you can get several colors of Diamine.

And for the cost of a filet mignon you can get a dozen Big Macs.

(just an example...I'm a vegetarian so I'd chose neither)


I don't know if that's the proper analogy. It's more like. You can get a filet mignon or you can get a filet mignon that was flown overnight wrapped in parchment paper and held by a nun. Or something.

(and really I'm just frustrated because I love Japanese inks and Iros are cost prohibitive for me as they are sold in the US. I will stock up when I go to Japan on vacation . . . which is also cost prohibitive. LOL. I just wish they sold at the same price point here in the US that they do in Japan. I'd happily pay $18-$20 here for them).

I thought Engeika sold them in plastic bottles for that price range.


If that's true, that's good to know so I can replace the ones I get in Japan when I run out.

#46 rwilsonedn

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 20:18

Other folks must use a lot more ink than I do. I was given a bottle of Iroshizuku for Christmas, 2011, and have used it exclusively for my workhorse Pilot VP F-nib, and occasionally for other pens. As of last week, I'd used about a third of the bottle. So I'm figuring the premium I would pay for using Iroshizuku over Diamine would be a bit over a penny a day. Given that I've had similar experience to others here--wonderful lubricating feel, beautiful color, no feathering even on nasty papers, and absolutely no pen problems, I'm more than happy to pay the difference.
Maybe if I were coloring drawings or painting furniture with it I'd have a different perspective.
ron

#47 chad.trent

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 20:43

I don't necessarily use a lot of ink. I've had the same bottle of Quink black for about a year now, and it's still half full. I just like switching colors. In fact, I carry 4-5 pens every day all loaded with different colors depending on the mood I'm in or what I'm doing with it. I have to have a black, and for marking things up at work I have to have a red. But I also carry colors that I like just for note taking and general writing.
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#48 Laura N

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 21:50

Other folks must use a lot more ink than I do. I was given a bottle of Iroshizuku for Christmas, 2011, and have used it exclusively for my workhorse Pilot VP F-nib, and occasionally for other pens. As of last week, I'd used about a third of the bottle. So I'm figuring the premium I would pay for using Iroshizuku over Diamine would be a bit over a penny a day. Given that I've had similar experience to others here--wonderful lubricating feel, beautiful color, no feathering even on nasty papers, and absolutely no pen problems, I'm more than happy to pay the difference.
Maybe if I were coloring drawings or painting furniture with it I'd have a different perspective.
ron


I have exactly the same experience. I frequently use Iroshizuku inks. I give away samples. I often use pens with broad nibs. And I've yet to finish a bottle myself.

#49 TDL

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 15:48

I have used about a bottle and a half of Iroshizuku Tsuki-yo in about 14 months. It is feeding two Nakayas and a Montblanc 146, two of which are utilised very extensively. Nearly time to order a third bottle.
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