Jump to content


Photo

Monte Rosa - Montblanc Or Not Montblanc


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:11

Hi,

I have read here in FPN, as much as I could about Monte Rosa, and have seen a lot of pics of Monte Rosa pens.
Some have the Montblanc logo and some don't, some have the name engraved in the cap near the clip, some have the name on the bottom of the cap, some have de nib exposed and some don't...

Is there any other Monte Rosa besides the Monte Rosa from Montblanc ?

I gained a Monte Rosa pen (among others) from my grandfather, but it isn't mentioned Montblanc anywhere, it doesn't have the montblanc logo and the nib isn't exposed (as the 042).
The word Monte Rosa is engraved arround the cap, near the bottom.

It's like the one from the link below, but slightly different in the barrel near the thread.
http://www.ebay.com/...e-/150659567780

I'm not wanting it to be a Montblanc pen :) I just would like to know what it is.

I can post some photos of my Monte Rosa pen, but honestly, it is in so bad shape/looking all over the pen, that I even am ashamed.

#2 mase001

mase001

    EQV

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 135 posts

Posted 28 December 2012 - 16:25

Monte Rosa pens were made by Montblanc. They are Montblanc pens! They were made over many different years so that explains the differences in design! Hope this helps!!

Edited by mase001, 28 December 2012 - 16:26.


#3 JLS1

JLS1

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 28 December 2012 - 17:15

As said above, Monte Rosa pens are definitely MB pens, but it would probably help if you provided a pic or two to confirm.

FWIW, at the time the Monte Rosas were being produced, MB sold a larger variety of pens than they do today (much like today's Pilot or Parker) to a wider variety of markets - I believe the Monte Rosa was aimed at the student market and would be MB's student pen (or schulfuller). I've heard that Monte Rosas were/are pretty good pens, so fixing up your grandfather's pen (if needed) might give you a great writer, as well as a keepsake!

#4 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 28 December 2012 - 19:16

Thanks for the answers.
I'll post some photos later. But please, don't expel me from the forum, because the pen really is in bad bad shape and aspect.
Be compreensive :) i have received it as is.

#5 GRJP

GRJP

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 134 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 28 December 2012 - 19:58

The MonteRosa is a very fine writer and build quality wise it feels like a sturdy pen. I have one ((this model to be exact) and I can say that while not as nice to write with as the 334 1/2 it is a very good writer and a keeper. They are MBs and quite good ones to use at that, although I can only speak for the one I have and the general impression I've heard.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. - Winston Churchill

#6 JLS1

JLS1

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:01

Thanks for the answers.
I'll post some photos later. But please, don't expel me from the forum, because the pen really is in bad bad shape and aspect.
Be compreensive :) i have received it as is.


Don't worry - we FPN'ers are a very understanding bunch of people. As far as I know, no one has ever been expelled for bad pictures. (Bad language, maybe... :hmm1: )

Oh yeah, :W2FPN:

#7 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 28 December 2012 - 23:21

Well, the pictures aren't quite good once they were taken with cell phone, but I was refering to the pen itself. Then pen really isn't in good shape (concerning the image of the pen).

Here are the pictures, and please, once more, I apologise for the pens aspect (besides de rust in the cap, some rubber band has been in contact with the pen trough the years, and got stuck all over the pen):
In the third picture, looks like is missing some ring where the hood screw to the barrel. Don't you think?
What more can you tell me about this pen? I am interested in recover this ben to the good days.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#8 Jerome Tarshis

Jerome Tarshis

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 947 posts
  • Location:San Francisco, California

Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:23

To answer the original question, yes, there were Monte Rosa pens not manufactured by Montblanc. There was a Swiss company, Dimmler, that sold pens under that name. They were made by various manufacturers, (I think) not including Montblanc.

Although I am prepared to believe that the pen in question was manufactured by (or for) Montblanc if there is some evidence to support that, there are Monte Rosa pens with no Hamburg provenance.

The only Monte Rosa pen I own, an 042, says both Montblanc and Monte Rosa on the cap, and MONTBLANC is in capital letters much larger than the upper and lower case letters that said MonteRosa in script. Other 042s have an imprint with Monterosa in larger type. In either case the word "Montblanc" is present and I don't think Montblanc was trying to conceal its connection with the Monte Rosa pens it sold.

However, I am not a Montblanc specialist, far less a Dimmler specialist, and would defer to the opinion of someone like PenParadise, or Tom Westerich of penboard.de, both of whom post to this forum.

PS: So far as I know, Dimmler was in Zurich and made and/or sold Monte Rosa pens before World War II and for a while afterward. The pen we are asked to comment upon has a nib and an overall look that seem too recent for Dimmler pens. And it may be that the Montblanc imprint has simply worn off. One awaits expert opinion, or even the opinion of an FPNer who owns an example of the same pen.

Edited by Jerome Tarshis, 29 December 2012 - 11:57.


#9 christof

christof

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,303 posts
  • Location:Confoederatio Helvetica

Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:25

Correct informations. Have also a look at H E R E .
Posted Image
. . . click here . . .

. . . my current S A L E S . . .

#10 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:58

To answer the original question, yes, there were Monte Rosa pens not manufactured by Montblanc. There was a Swiss company, Dimmler, that sold pens under that name. They were made by various manufacturers, (I think) not including Montblanc.

Although I am prepared to believe that the pen in question was manufactured by (or for) Montblanc if there is some evidence to support that, there are Monte Rosa pens with no Hamburg provenance.

The only Monte Rosa pen I own, an 042, says both Montblanc and Monte Rosa on the cap, and MONTBLANC is in capital letters much larger than the upper and lower case letters that said MonteRosa in script. Other 042s have an imprint with Monterosa in larger type. In either case the word "Montblanc" is present and I don't think Montblanc was trying to conceal its connection with the Monte Rosa pens it sold.

However, I am not a Montblanc specialist, far less a Dimmler specialist, and would defer to the opinion of someone like PenParadise, or Tom Westerich of penboard.de, both of whom post to this forum.

PS: So far as I know, Dimmler was in Zurich and made and/or sold Monte Rosa pens before World War II and for a while afterward. The pen we are asked to comment upon has a nib and an overall look that seem too recent for Dimmler pens. And it may be that the Montblanc imprint has simply worn off. One awaits expert opinion, or even the opinion of an FPNer who owns an example of the same pen.


Very interesting information. Thank you for that.
However, in the cap, near the Monte Rosa word, it's written either "made in Germany".

Does this change anything?
I will wait for the montblanc expert user commets.

Edited by FrElip, 29 December 2012 - 15:01.


#11 JLS1

JLS1

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 29 December 2012 - 16:36


To answer the original question, yes, there were Monte Rosa pens not manufactured by Montblanc. There was a Swiss company, Dimmler, that sold pens under that name. They were made by various manufacturers, (I think) not including Montblanc.

Although I am prepared to believe that the pen in question was manufactured by (or for) Montblanc if there is some evidence to support that, there are Monte Rosa pens with no Hamburg provenance.

The only Monte Rosa pen I own, an 042, says both Montblanc and Monte Rosa on the cap, and MONTBLANC is in capital letters much larger than the upper and lower case letters that said MonteRosa in script. Other 042s have an imprint with Monterosa in larger type. In either case the word "Montblanc" is present and I don't think Montblanc was trying to conceal its connection with the Monte Rosa pens it sold.

However, I am not a Montblanc specialist, far less a Dimmler specialist, and would defer to the opinion of someone like PenParadise, or Tom Westerich of penboard.de, both of whom post to this forum.

PS: So far as I know, Dimmler was in Zurich and made and/or sold Monte Rosa pens before World War II and for a while afterward. The pen we are asked to comment upon has a nib and an overall look that seem too recent for Dimmler pens. And it may be that the Montblanc imprint has simply worn off. One awaits expert opinion, or even the opinion of an FPNer who owns an example of the same pen.


Very interesting information. Thank you for that.
However, in the cap, near the Monte Rosa word, it's written either "made in Germany".

Does this change anything?
I will wait for the montblanc expert user commets.


I found a similar pen to your model here. By looking at the description & some of the pictures, it looks like there should be a MB 'star' at or near the top of the clip. I can't tell from your pictures whether there is one, so could you check and let us know?

#12 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 29 December 2012 - 22:24

I found a similar pen to your model here. By looking at the description & some of the pictures, it looks like there should be a MB 'star' at or near the top of the clip. I can't tell from your pictures whether there is one, so could you check and let us know?


Indeed, the outside is very similar. But the nib isn't. Mine is inside the hood.

#13 mase001

mase001

    EQV

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 135 posts

Posted 29 December 2012 - 22:27

As I stated in the 1st response to this thread, yes this is a Monte Rosa made by Montblanc.

More specifically it looks to be a Reference # 41 or 401 with diamond shaped ink windows and slip cap.

This particular Monte Rosa was from roughly 1961 to 1967.

They came in both cartridge and piston filler.

If you'd like to see them in print, please check Rosler's Collectible Stars Page 52 and 53.

Here are some small pictures to help:
Posted Image

Posted Image

I hope this helps.

Mason

Edited by mase001, 29 December 2012 - 22:33.


#14 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 29 December 2012 - 23:08

As I stated in the 1st response to this thread, yes this is a Monte Rosa made by Montblanc.

More specifically it looks to be a Reference # 41 or 401 with diamond shaped ink windows and slip cap.

This particular Monte Rosa was from roughly 1961 to 1967.

They came in both cartridge and piston filler.

If you'd like to see them in print, please check Rosler's Collectible Stars Page 52 and 53.

Here are some small pictures to help:
Posted Image

Posted Image

I hope this helps.

Mason


wonderful.
To me, it looks like the red pen. But in the the red i dont see the diamond shape window.
I said the red one because of the metal ring between the hood and the barrel. But in mine, i dont have the ring, it could be seem the gap.
And all those except the red have a polished ring in the bottom of the cap with the lettering. Mine is like the cap from the red... All brushed with the lettering.

Edited by FrElip, 29 December 2012 - 23:14.


#15 mase001

mase001

    EQV

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 135 posts

Posted 29 December 2012 - 23:30

The book only illustrates a few examples. These pens were made in almost countless different variations!! Plain clips, triangle clips, star clips, diamond windows, regular windows, hooded nib, open nib, etc! Rest assured it is a Montblanc! :)

#16 georges zaslavsky

georges zaslavsky

    vintageandmodernpenslover

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,576 posts
  • Location:France
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:23

they are good pens for the money
Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time
Posted Image

#17 JLS1

JLS1

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,459 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:54

@Mase001: Thanks for sharing this - it's very helpful to know the Monte Rosa came in all shapes/sizes!

@ FrElip: It sounds like you have a real MB Monte Rosa - congratulations! BTW, do you know if it's a piston version or a cartridge/converter (CC) version?

Edited by JLS1, 30 December 2012 - 09:54.


#18 mase001

mase001

    EQV

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 135 posts

Posted 30 December 2012 - 15:24

@JLS1, since his pen has the diamond ink windows, it is a piston. The C/C pens did not have windows! :)

#19 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 16:28

Correct. It's a piston filler. Anyway, judging form the rear of the hood, there is no cartdrige to fit there.

I'm sad that it misses the metal ring in mine, and threading de hood in the barrel, even squeezing it tight, the gap from metal ring could be noticed :wacko:

#20 jar

jar

    A Vintage Pen has to be older than me.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,432 posts
  • Location:From Deep South Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 16:30

Correct. It's a piston filler. Anyway, judging form the rear of the hood, there is no cartdrige to fit there.

I'm sad that it misses the metal ring in mine, and threading de hood in the barrel, even squeezing it tight, the gap from metal ring could be noticed :wacko:


The ring was part of the cap closure system IIRC and it's likely the cap will not be secure and the nib may dry out more without it.

How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron - How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way suffers a severe handicap. -- jar

The last pen I bought will be the next to last pen I ever buy! --jar


#21 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 17:33


Correct. It's a piston filler. Anyway, judging form the rear of the hood, there is no cartdrige to fit there.

I'm sad that it misses the metal ring in mine, and threading de hood in the barrel, even squeezing it tight, the gap from metal ring could be noticed :wacko:


The ring was part of the cap closure system IIRC and it's likely the cap will not be secure and the nib may dry out more without it.


I see. I have either a Lamy ratio (100% like de L6 in the photo: http://pointythings....ens/noslamy.php) that have the exact same ring, and I got it's function.
Should it be easy for me to find a ring for my monte rosa? So I could restore it and put it to work?

#22 jar

jar

    A Vintage Pen has to be older than me.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,432 posts
  • Location:From Deep South Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:26



Correct. It's a piston filler. Anyway, judging form the rear of the hood, there is no cartdrige to fit there.

I'm sad that it misses the metal ring in mine, and threading de hood in the barrel, even squeezing it tight, the gap from metal ring could be noticed :wacko:


The ring was part of the cap closure system IIRC and it's likely the cap will not be secure and the nib may dry out more without it.


I see. I have either a Lamy ratio (100% like de L6 in the photo: http://pointythings....ens/noslamy.php) that have the exact same ring, and I got it's function.
Should it be easy for me to find a ring for my monte rosa? So I could restore it and put it to work?


I'd PM maxpens or Fountainbel and see if they have a replacement.

How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron - How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way suffers a severe handicap. -- jar

The last pen I bought will be the next to last pen I ever buy! --jar


#23 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:54

I'd PM maxpens or Fountainbel and see if they have a replacement.


I am very greatful for that, apart from being in Europe.

#24 GRJP

GRJP

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 134 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 19:28



I'd PM maxpens or Fountainbel and see if they have a replacement.


I am very greatful for that, apart from being in Europe.

Depending on your time frame I can mail you the card of the person who restored a few pens for me. I should be back in portugal by the 18th of January.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. - Winston Churchill

#25 FrElip

FrElip

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts
  • Location:Alverca, Lisboa - Portugal
  • Flag:

Posted 30 December 2012 - 23:16

Depending on your time frame I can mail you the card of the person who restored a few pens for me. I should be back in portugal by the 18th of January.


That would be very nice GRJP, because I have other pens that need to be restored too. I'll wait for that contact, please.
Thanks

#26 GRJP

GRJP

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 134 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:09



Depending on your time frame I can mail you the card of the person who restored a few pens for me. I should be back in portugal by the 18th of January.


That would be very nice GRJP, because I have other pens that need to be restored too. I'll wait for that contact, please.
Thanks

No worries!
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. - Winston Churchill