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Noodler's Legal Lapis


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26 replies to this topic

#1 mhphoto

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:01

Here my review of the fantastic Noodler's Legal Lapis, kindly sponsored by member Jared. Thanks Jared! :thumbup:

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Thanks for looking!

#2 Freddy

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:18

Excellent review and enjoyable read..

Thanks..

Fred

#3 estie1948

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:49

Great review. Thanks. This is one of my favorite inks. I think your review will make it clear to others whether or not they want to try it. I bet a lot will.

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#4 The Good Captain

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 10:31

A great review. This ink reminds me of the 'Prime of the Commons' and Air Corps Blue-Black. There's more feathering and bleed from the P o t C but it has its uses.

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#5 notbob

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 13:48

Here my review of the fantastic Noodler's Legal Lapis
Thanks for looking!


What timing! I've only recently become weary of blue/blacks in favor of black/greens and black/blue-greens. I've read all the Legal Lapis reviews, but have been hesitant to purchase not knowing the properties (bulletproof, eternal, etc) of this one-off ink. I do love the shading and may even be able to see the sheening ....now that you have my eyeballs all sheeny edjumicated. In fact, I'm now so tuned in to sheen, i can't even use DWS, anymore, without seeing mostly green. The stuff sheens on charcoal briquets, fercrimminysakes! ;)

Anyway, great review, as usual. I'll probably get a bottle, based on overwhelming user rave rating. I jes hope I don't end up with another bottle of strange ink, like Noodler's Cactus Fruit Eel, the ink that apparently never dries. Wait a sec..... yep! ....still wet, after 5 days. Great color, but dries like axle grease.

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#6 Octo

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 16:26

With so many inks with diverse colors and properties, there seems no need to duplicate any . . . but I have a back-up bottle of Legal Lapis.

#7 Ernie Wayne

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 17:24

Great review. Thanks for it.
It's one of my favorite inks.
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#8 Frisky Willy

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 23:33

This excellent review was both informative and comprehensive but {{{Oh the Green Shades of Envy}}} a key part of its impact was the fine penmanship. My handwriting resembles footwriting. Now I will have to chain myself to the desk and practice, practice, practice. I was about to start posting some pen comparisons but that idea is cancelled until my scribal efforts improve at least to the point that I won’t totally humiliate myself…

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#9 Jared

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 16:29

Thanks for another great review of a unique ink. It's one of my collection of varied blue-black inks on my quest to find the perfect one. I'm still looking, but the bulletproof qualities of Legal Lapis have impressed me.

#10 reval

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 17:37

Tip for members from the EU: Rolf Thiel from missing-pen.de has this ink in stock too (at least in September when I bought a bottle).



#11 Yoda4561

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:04


Here my review of the fantastic Noodler's Legal Lapis
Thanks for looking!


What timing! I've only recently become weary of blue/blacks in favor of black/greens and black/blue-greens. I've read all the Legal Lapis reviews, but have been hesitant to purchase not knowing the properties (bulletproof, eternal, etc) of this one-off ink. I do love the shading and may even be able to see the sheening ....now that you have my eyeballs all sheeny edjumicated. In fact, I'm now so tuned in to sheen, i can't even use DWS, anymore, without seeing mostly green. The stuff sheens on charcoal briquets, fercrimminysakes! ;)

Anyway, great review, as usual. I'll probably get a bottle, based on overwhelming user rave rating. I jes hope I don't end up with another bottle of strange ink, like Noodler's Cactus Fruit Eel, the ink that apparently never dries. Wait a sec..... yep! ....still wet, after 5 days. Great color, but dries like axle grease.


It's a cellulose reactive bulletproof, similar drying behavior to the standard black but not as feather resistant (but what is). IIRC from tests it's quite possibly the most bulletproof overall ink noodler's makes. If the paper isn't absorbent enough ink left on the surface won't dry, what is absorbed by the paper is there for good. Like bulletproof black, if you need it to dry faster on finer papers just add water.

#12 notbob

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:13

If the paper isn't absorbent enough ink left on the surface won't dry, what is absorbed by the paper is there for good. Like bulletproof black, if you need it to dry faster on finer papers just add water.


Good to know, as I plan on using the ink on actual court documents, more than likely printed on HP1124. Thank you for this valuable information.

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#13 whitelily

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:14

Great review. Thanks for it.
It's one of my favorite inks.

+ 1
Perfect ink for lots of note-taking!

#14 mhphoto

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:10

For a more in depth water soak resiliency test of some various Noodler's blues, see this thread. Legal Lapis did phenomenally well in the water test.

Edited by mhphoto, 29 December 2012 - 04:11.


#15 SignalboxCat

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:20


Here my review of the fantastic Noodler's Legal Lapis
Thanks for looking!


What timing! I've only recently become weary of blue/blacks in favor of black/greens and black/blue-greens. I've read all the Legal Lapis reviews, but have been hesitant to purchase not knowing the properties (bulletproof, eternal, etc) of this one-off ink. I do love the shading and may even be able to see the sheening ....now that you have my eyeballs all sheeny edjumicated. In fact, I'm now so tuned in to sheen, i can't even use DWS, anymore, without seeing mostly green. The stuff sheens on charcoal briquets, fercrimminysakes! ;)

Anyway, great review, as usual. I'll probably get a bottle, based on overwhelming user rave rating. I jes hope I don't end up with another bottle of strange ink, like Noodler's Cactus Fruit Eel, the ink that apparently never dries. Wait a sec..... yep! ....still wet, after 5 days. Great color, but dries like axle grease.


Legal Lapis is a great ink, but some things to be aware of:

(1) It's a very free-flowing ink
(2) It has a tendency to stain some plastics blue/green
(3) You need to shake the bottle well before use

Not knocking it, I love it, but it has taken me a while to find a pen it is most happy in. I was a bit too wet in my Pelikans but I've now got it in an old Waterman Forum pen (with a nib ground to a stub and converted to an eyedropper) and it is perfect in that pen.

I find it dries OK and is very water-resistant. Feathering isn't a problem once it's in a pen it works well with. Nib creep ranges from a bit to lots, depending on the pen.

If you prefer something a little more well-behaved but similar in terms of colour and being bulletproof you could try "54th Massachusetts" although the colour of that tends to be a bit more to the black/grey and less green that Legal Lapis.

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#16 tonybelding

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 00:36

I've used Legal Lapis for years, but I've waffled back and forth between liking and disliking it. (Of the three Pendemonium exclusives, my favorite remains Iraqi Indigo/Violet Vote.)

Legal Lapis is one of the wettest inks I've got, which is quite unusual for a blue-black ink. Most of them tend toward dry.

It's a fully waterproof ink. If it fully soaks into the paper (which it usually does pretty easily, due to its wetness), it bonds and becomes smear-proof even if damp.

Like many of the bulletproof/eternal type inks, the bottle does accumulate some sediment, and you'll want to shake it from time to time. You also need to keep the bottle tightly sealed. I believe too much exposure to oxygen will cause it to break down over time (i.e. months, not days).

The color of Legal Lapis gives me fits, as it's hard to categorize, and it tends to look very different when used with various combinations of pen and paper. Sometimes the color can be quite dull. I've largely replaced LL in my regular usage with Noodler's Texas Blue Bonnet, which I find more attractive. However, TBB is higher-maintenance ink.

#17 amberleadavis

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:37

Thank you for great review and the stunning penmanship!
@tonybelding

I haven't inked up a pen with the TBB because of your descriptions of it being a "higher-maintenance" ink. What makes TBB higher maintenance? And would you describe LL as higher maintenance?

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#18 mhphoto

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:46

Thank you for great review and the stunning penmanship!


Thanks! :thumbup:

I haven't inked up a pen with the TBB because of your descriptions of it being a "higher-maintenance" ink. What makes TBB higher maintenance? And would you describe LL as higher maintenance?


I would love to know this too. I've been thinking about having some friends in Houston pick up a bottle of TBB and Alamo's Twilight next time they come to visit.

#19 amberleadavis

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:23

Buy Alamo's Twilight and Comanche Rouge they are wonderful colors!

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#20 tonybelding

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 16:24

I haven't inked up a pen with the TBB because of your descriptions of it being a "higher-maintenance" ink. What makes TBB higher maintenance? And would you describe LL as higher maintenance?


No, LL is not a particularly high-maintenance ink. As "bulletproof" inks go, it's usually trouble-free. (Although I think Violet Vote may be the best-behaved of them all.)

TBB tends to leave deposits of "blue stuff" on nibs and feeds, any place where evaporation occurs. It doesn't rinse off easily, though it's possible to remove with some effort. I've never had a pen clog up with it... or even come close, but that may be because I do keep an eye on it and clean them from time to time.

Just to be very cautious, I generally use TBB in pens that I can easily disassemble and put the parts in a sonic cleaner. I also wouldn't use it in a pen that I think is already prone to drying out... but otherwise I wouldn't be scared of the stuff. It's not going to eat your pens.

#21 Yoda4561

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:00

Blue heron is another high maintenence ink in this color family. It behaves similarly to blue bonnet, maybe a bit worse. The deposits are dissolved rapidly with ammonia or pen cleaner, and even when it's dried "solid" for a while it will usually get wiped away by a piston or converter with a firm twist. I'd be wary of using them in hard to clean pen mechanisms (the "power filler" mechanism visconti uses comes to mind).

Inks like Bulletproof Black, Legal Lapis, and most other cellulose reactive bulletproofs almost never completely solidify, and will present no resistance to a piston even after months of being "dried out". They also flush out with the application of water alone.

#22 notbob

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:44

Inks like Bulletproof Black, Legal Lapis, and most other cellulose reactive bulletproofs almost never completely solidify


Ummmm..... so what is this "bulletproof" of which we speak?

If it smears for months, how is it bulletproof? Yes, I realize only the blue smears. I can now see that on the very wet 1.5mm lines I layed down 24 hrs ago. So it's really half BP and half never-dry. Swell. Another HUGE bottle of weird ink. It has great shading, red sheen, but will make a mess in perpetuity. So, I can fill out my legal documents and they will never lose the black line, but will look like a train wreck if something should happen to brush across them. Something like a OTHER PAPERS! ....of which we never ever see more than one legal document. As if.

I'm getting tired of this Noodler double talk. "Bulletproof". "Eternal". What nonsense. Yes, I've seen the Bernanke ink video with Nathan hilariously pounding and flailing away at a sheet of paper like a demented loon. Yet those inks are not classified as permanent anything, not even water-resistant. What exactly are they, other than Nathan-proof? ;)

So, my question now is, does anyone make an true true "archival" ink that permanently dries? Preferably, a blue-green/black. I'm not holding my breath, but will continue to explore. Next is PR Ebony Blue. I guess I should also put pen to that bottle of pre-ban Pelikan 4001 Blu/blk I was lucky enough to snag. Any other suggestions?

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#23 tonybelding

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 13:03

If it smears for months, how is it bulletproof? Yes, I realize only the blue smears.


Which ink are you talking about that smears? Legal Lapis doesn't.


I can now see that on the very wet 1.5mm lines I layed down 24 hrs ago. So it's really half BP and half never-dry. Swell. Another HUGE bottle of weird ink. It has great shading, red sheen, but will make a mess in perpetuity.


I have never seen Legal Lapis behave in the way you describe. It dries quickly and I've never seen a "red sheen".

If yours is doing this, then I'd suspect you are either using a very dense paper and very wet pen, which is not allowing all the ink to soak into the page, or else something is wrong with your bottle of ink. It could be too concentrated, and you need to dilute it. That has been known to happen once in a while with Noodler's inks. (You might try one part water to two parts ink, just as an experiment, and see what happens.)


I'm getting tired of this Noodler double talk. "Bulletproof". "Eternal". What nonsense.


It's not nonsense. It's amazing stuff when it's working right -- which it does for most of us. It doesn't stain most surfaces (even comes off skin easily) but bonds quickly and permanently with paper. I've hit it with water, alcohol, ammonia, bleach... nothing phases it.


So, my question now is, does anyone make an true true "archival" ink that permanently dries? Preferably, a blue-green/black.


Legal Lapis is exactly what you describe. You should take some time to figure out why it's not working for you, because the problems you described are quite unusual.

#24 Yoda4561

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 13:12


Inks like Bulletproof Black, Legal Lapis, and most other cellulose reactive bulletproofs almost never completely solidify


Ummmm..... so what is this "bulletproof" of which we speak?

If it smears for months, how is it bulletproof?

So, my question now is, does anyone make an true true "archival" ink that permanently dries? Preferably, a blue-green/black. I'm not holding my breath, but will continue to explore. Next is PR Ebony Blue. I guess I should also put pen to that bottle of pre-ban Pelikan 4001 Blu/blk I was lucky enough to snag. Any other suggestions?



They only don't dry IN THE PEN. On paper, once all the ink reacts with the fibers (it's a chemical reaction, only takes a few seconds unless your pen is very wet or the paper is non-absorbent) it's permanent, non smearing, non-anything under anything that won't destroy the paper. This is most of the bulletproof/eternal inks that Noodler's makes. This is my favorite kind of ink, since you can use it in any pen with no worries about it being a cleaning nightmare later, but is 100% permanent on paper.

A few bulletproof labeled inks like Blue heron and Texas blue bonnet don't work using the same cellulose chemical reaction, but by drying, which is great for pens that throw tons of ink on the page, but bad for pens that are hard to clean. They're also kinda handy to have around if you don't mind the extra cleaning hassle because they work great with wet pens and non absorbent paper once it's had a few minutes to fully dry.

#25 notbob

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 13:23

They only don't dry IN THE PEN. On paper, once all the ink reacts with the fibers (it's a chemical reaction, only takes a few seconds unless your pen is very wet or the paper is non-absorbent)


This might be the case. I layed down 1.5mm lines of LL on Tomoe River paper about 12 hrs ago (not 24 hrs). It still smears blue like crazy. Even the drier 1mm lines smear a tad. I'll try some more absorbent paper, as TR paper is quite .....??.... hard? I mean, for such a thin paper, it's very bleed-through resistant. Even more so than Rhodia and CF. I'll try some HP1124, which is the paper I'll probably be using for legal docs.
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#26 notbob

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:22

As usual, I put my foot in my mouth before having all the facts. Disregard everything I said, as this LL ink is really a great ink on the right paper. That Tomoe River paper is jes so hard. Many inks are jes not fully absorbed by it. No wonder everything sheens so nicely on it, even b-proof black. I layed down some LL on Rhodia dotpad. Heavenly. Doesn't smear, dries fairly quickly, shades nicely, even in my 1.5 Safari, which is a fire hose. I love the color. I've got it in 3 pens, now, with 3 diff width nibs. M, B, and 1.5mm. A wet ink which flows nicely and has yet to stall or skip in any pen. This ink makes me want to sit and practice my italic hand, it looks soooo gorgeous when done right. I hafta say this is the first ink I've run across that really makes writing with a fountain pen fun. A GREAT ink. I'm glad I bought a bottle.

TIP: I noticed when flushing LL in a white enamel sink, the blue quickly washed away, but the black appears to stain the enamel. Not to fret. 409 easily removes the bogus stain.

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#27 tonybelding

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:11

A few bulletproof labeled inks like Blue heron and Texas blue bonnet don't work using the same cellulose chemical reaction, but by drying...


I don't think that's exactly right. As far as I can tell, Texas Blue Bonnet is "mostly " cellulose-reactive. There's only a faint cyan component that rinses out, but the remaining blue-black stain looks and behaves very much like the other bulletproof inks.