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The Pros And Cons Of Parchment


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#1 Lyander0012

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:15

Just a few general thoughts regarding the predecessor of our beloved paper.

IMG_20121127_175301.jpg

And, for comparison, a shot of the back of the page:

IMG_20121127_175212.jpg

There's no evidence bleed-through at all, but the show-through is quite excessive, as you may have noticed. Lastly, here's a shot of the phrase "still legible?" written over the back of a series of numbers (0-9), just to illustrate how pointless using the back side would be.

IMG_20121127_175219.jpg

Cheers, everyone!
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#2 Sandy1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 11:07

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your experience with this type of paper. :thumbup:

I don't use this paper so often, though I find it an interesting option when using a pale ink or one that is quite translucent: If the reader holds the sheet, the reflected light will be slightly augmented by the light coming through the ink. (In such instances wide margins are used.)

Bye,
S1

EDIT - to add: This Wiki entry describes both parchment made from animal hides and from plants. Wiki Link

Edited by Sandy1, 27 November 2012 - 11:57.

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#3 mm1624124

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 00:57

Thanks for sharing! I think I would enjoy using parchment for some occasions.

Where does one purchase it? :puddle:

edited to reveal an intelligible response.

Edited by mm1624124, 28 November 2012 - 02:12.


#4 Daisy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:51

Hi Lyander!

Lovely, lovely review. I covet your handwriting!

Can you share what brand of parchment it is? Also, what pen and ink combo did you use?

I'm curious because not all parchment is the same; many are fully opaque, and of course they come in different weights as well. Yours looks more like a translucent vellum with a parchment finish, like the kind some use for scrapbooking accents and envelopes. I love how the ink sits on it, giving it that ethereal floating-in-air feeling. (I never use both sides anyway so I am quite untroubled by that.) I really, really like it!!!

Thanks again for a lovely review! :thumbup:

Not really a scribe, more of a Pharisee...



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
-- Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution


#5 Lyander0012

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:51

Honestly, this wasn't intended to be so much a review as a sharing of my experience with parchment. Still, I'm glad that it was an enjoyable read.

Also, I rarely ever receive praise for my handwriting, so I was a bit taken aback upon reading Daisy's post. Thanks :blush:

*ahem*
Anyway, I've only a single fountain pen at the moment (that's soon to change, I hope), a Sheaffer Prelude with an M steel nib. The ink is a blend of Quink black and Skrip Turquoise; it looks a plain black-grey at first glance, but there's this lovely aqua tint that makes itself apparent upon closer inspection (more readily so in ink swabs).

Actually, my old mix was rather Celtic green in colour, while this one is almost entirely black. I ran out of turquoise, so the usual 2:3 ratio was off by... a lot ( :gaah: ). There's a slight greyish-blue tint in the ink sample, but my (phone)camera can't quite make it out. Sorry about that :P

As to the parchment, I picked it up at National Bookstore. It's a fairly famous multi-branched retailer for books, office supplies, and the like. I picked the parchment up in their Mall of Asia branch, I think. Anyway, the parchment's manufacturer is a *relatively* obscure local manufacturer named the Star Paper Corporation. They make rather good papers, and their prices are quite reasonable.

I don't recall the paper's weight or finish being advertised on the packet, sadly :/

Semi-related note:
I find that Quink runs a bit wetter than Skrip. While the line I laid down with pure Skrip Turquoise was rather thin and dry (only slightly so), mixing in the smallest amounts of Quink Black made for a wetter, smoother (?) line.

So, based on my experience, not only does ink mixing result in varying colours, but also in variable ink characteristics (wetness, consistency, etc.). It's a LOT of fun. I'm now saving up for a bottle of j. herbin Poussiere de Lune, which was highly recommended to me by a friend. Looking forward to it!
"The price of an object should not only be what you had to pay for it, but also what you've had to sacrifice in order to obtain it." - The Wisdom of The Internet


#6 Daisy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:53

Thanks, Lyander!

And before you get too shocked over the handwriting praise, let me tell you that age changes a number of perceptions. :D I have a minor affliction called essential tremor, which can make even the prettiest handwriting jerky. When you have what I have, even your best intentioned curves turn into corners. The thing I find beautiful about yours is that it flows with such ease, and that your curves are fluid, and that the whole thing just works. It's pretty easy to read as well: bonus!

So when I said I covet your handwriting, I actually meant exactly that! :roflmho:

Thanks again! :thumbup:

Not really a scribe, more of a Pharisee...



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
-- Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution


#7 Lyander0012

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:51

I'm sorry to hear that. Hope I didn't come across as crass or anything :/

Anyway, despite the seriousness I felt while reading your last reply, I couldn't help but laugh out loud when I read your last sentence; there are a LOT of people who would beg to differ about my handwriting being legible :roflmho:

I just wish I could write in a straight line, though. Then again, the only way to do that is to keep practicing on unlined paper, yeah? Wish me luck, then :P
"The price of an object should not only be what you had to pay for it, but also what you've had to sacrifice in order to obtain it." - The Wisdom of The Internet


#8 iamchum

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 13:25

i have doctors handwriting :P urs is way better than mine (u know... that handwriting that is so scrawled on your prescription slip that u have no idea what medicine ur supposed to get?).

That being said, i don't write double sided anyway, so... where may i purchase such a piece of stationary?
hehe

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.........I call this one Günter. ......... I call this one Michael Clarke Duncan.


#9 Daisy

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 18:03

Hi Lyander! No, not crass at all! Just young, which is NO crime. Enjoy it while you can! :D

There is medication for essential tremor, but I just don't find it worth the bother most days. We're talking a *tiny* shake, which I don't even really notice until I go to write or sew. So instead of practicing my pretty Palmer script, I stick to block printing: because all the strokes are very fast and small, a tremor just makes a line longer or a curve larger. Overall, the effect is that it's just sloppier. So don't feel too bad for me!!! :D

Yes, your script is quite legible. It's just not skimmable: you have to actually look at it and focus and read it. The people whining about how illegible your handwriting is are just spoiled by block printing such as my own, when in fact I'd rather have yours than mine! :D

Not really a scribe, more of a Pharisee...



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
-- Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution


#10 Lyander0012

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 23:44

I apologize for the extremely tardy reply. I'd actually read (and re-read) this thread on several other occasions, but I've either been too busy or too lazy to actually reply.

Anyway, I have this really irritating habit of saying (or in this case, typing) the first thing to come into mind; I've irritated more than my fair share of people that way, so I've also developed this rather apologetic personality. I'll try not to linger on that too much :P

*ahem*
I just wish that my cursive were more skimmable, as you say. Ah well, I'll just have something else to work on in my free time :))

By the way, just so as to keep this thread on track, is there anyone here who is fond of using parchment? It doesn't have to be something you use on a daily basis; it could just be something you use for fancy letters, invitations, etc. I'm curious as to other people's impressions.

Cheers!

EDIT:
iamchum: As I think I may have previously mentioned, I purchased the packet at National Bookstore, a fairly widespread chain of office and school supplies and, naturally, books. I don't think they have any branches out of the Philippines, though I could be wrong.

I have no doubt that there are a lot of better-quality parchment suppliers in the UK, though, so I may as well ask in advance where you buy your stationery :))

Edited by Lyander0012, 03 December 2012 - 23:49.

"The price of an object should not only be what you had to pay for it, but also what you've had to sacrifice in order to obtain it." - The Wisdom of The Internet


#11 zemof

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 13:09

To my knowledge and from the photos, I'm not too sure but that paper you wrote on is not real parchment. There are various papers by different paper houses coming up with 'parchment' but all they were trying to do, is to reproduce the look, feel and/or texture for your pleasure.

Parchment is made from hide and requires some processes before it can be considered 'prepared'. Pergamena sells real parchment, and this will give you a good gauge of how their prices are like. And oh, John Neal sells parchment too...! =)

Edited by zemof, 06 December 2012 - 13:11.


#12 Fernan

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 14:08

Zemof is right.

Here is a reference, from Wikipedia, to what is the nature of real parchment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchment. It is very expensive. It seems to me, from the reference that Zemof gave to Pergamena, that the price has gone down a little - but my memory does fail me lately.

Parchment is very rarely used today. Only for very special occasions, such as given tokens of appreciation.

There is a project that was recently completed : the first Saint-John's Biblemanuscript on true parchment to be produced since a few centuries. This has resulted in reducing the availability of parchment, thus raising its cost.

#13 mirosc

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 14:39

Well, I'm genuinely surprised that you take a sheet of parchment for just some mundane scribbling. One sheet this size has the price of about $10-15. If not, it's not parchment. At least not the real deal, like it has already been pointed out. :blush:

I've been working with countless historical documents from early to late middle ages, written on parchment (=skin of an animal) and they show quite different properties than shown here in the pictures. What you have is a modern imitation of the look and a bit of feel of old parchment, but has nothing to do with real parchment/vellum (or even the charta non nata / velót (today many manufacturers use rabbit skin as a replacement)). What you have used is some sort of vegetable parchment that has been invented in England in 1861.
Still the writing qualities of well made (animal) parchments are far superior to any high class paper whatsoever, but drying time is longer.
Greetings,
Michael

#14 Lyander0012

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:52

Hmm, I learned quite a few things from reading the last few replies. In light of the fact that, while somewhat pricey (I recall picking up the pack of 15 sheets at around 350 pesos or so? I'd lost the receipt somewhere...), it's nowhere near close to $10/sheet; in that case, it'd be roughly 410 pesos per sheet.

Sad to say, but it looks as if the above samples are actually sheets of... pseudo-parchment, would you say? Nonetheless, they still made for an enjoyable writing experience, and I'd not hesitate to recommend them to anyone looking for something different in their writing.

I apologize for the misleading post, and I'll rectify the thread to reflect this. Anyway, thanks for pointing that out! I had no idea parchment was quite that pricey :/
"The price of an object should not only be what you had to pay for it, but also what you've had to sacrifice in order to obtain it." - The Wisdom of The Internet


#15 zemof

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 13:29

There is a project that was recently completed : the first Saint-John's Biblemanuscript on true parchment to be produced since a few centuries. This has resulted in reducing the availability of parchment, thus raising its cost.


I'm swooning over here...it is precisely illuminated manuscripts that got me started on calligraphy!

(or even the charta non nata / velót (today many manufacturers use rabbit skin as a replacement). What you have used is some sort of vegetable parchment that has been invented in England in 1861.


And yes, definitely something new to learn everyday :D

But I do notice that these 'pseudo-parchment' (as you named them) are great for dip nibs as they are lightly coated, which reduces snagging of the nibs on the paper. It's a pity that there are so many beautiful papers yet not all are fountain-pen- or dip-nib-friendly...!




#16 fiberdrunk

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:17

Wow, I've never seen parchment sheets so thin and translucent before. I've used parchment by Strathmore, Pentalic and Canson but all were on the heavy opaque side. Though I love the paper for correspondence, I think most people use it to print certificates on, hence the thicker sheets. I'd love to find the thinner kind around here, though. Your handwriting looks very nice on it.

Edited by fiberdrunk, 12 December 2012 - 07:20.

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#17 Daisy

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 20:53

Wow, I've never seen parchment sheets so thin and translucent before. I've used parchment by Strathmore, Pentalic and Canson but all were on the heavy opaque side. Though I love the paper for correspondence, I think most people use it to print certificates on, hence the thicker sheets. I'd love to find the thinner kind around here, though.


A company named Glama makes a number of translucent vellums, including one with a parchment finish. There's a marbled one too that looks a little more like a classic "parchment" finish. I've never used them, but I have read several positive reviews of it. The only negative I've heard is to expect a little longer drying time.

It seems a bit pricy for an occasional use paper, but papermillstore.com offers samples -- if I keep hearing good things about this I'll probably get a sample just to try some myself and find out why some people love it so. :D




(edited to add second link)

Edited by Daisy, 12 December 2012 - 21:31.

Not really a scribe, more of a Pharisee...



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
-- Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution


#18 fiberdrunk

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 21:06


Wow, I've never seen parchment sheets so thin and translucent before. I've used parchment by Strathmore, Pentalic and Canson but all were on the heavy opaque side. Though I love the paper for correspondence, I think most people use it to print certificates on, hence the thicker sheets. I'd love to find the thinner kind around here, though.


A company named Glama makes a number of translucent vellums, including one with a parchment finish. I've never used them, but I have read several positive reviews of it. The only negative I've heard is to expect a little longer drying time.

It seems a bit pricy for an occasional use paper, but papermillstore.com offers samples -- if I keep hearing good things about this I'll probably get a sample just to try some myself and find out why some people love it so. :D


Thank you for the info! I'm bookmarking it.
Find my homemade ink recipes on my Flickr page here.

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#19 Daisy

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 21:33

Cool, glad I could help! I think I edited my original post after you replied -- didn't refresh the page -- so be sure to see the second link as well. :D

Not really a scribe, more of a Pharisee...



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
-- Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution


#20 fiberdrunk

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 23:26

Cool, glad I could help! I think I edited my original post after you replied -- didn't refresh the page -- so be sure to see the second link as well. :D



Oooh, the marbled one is even prettier! Thanks! :thumbup:
Find my homemade ink recipes on my Flickr page here.

"I don't wait for inspiration; inspiration waits for me." --Akiane Kramarik