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Learn To Write Arabic


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#41 smk

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 21:08

Rich - it is great that you remember how to write these - I don't see anything wrong with them.

All - I just uploaded Lesson 12 with an over the shoulder position. I'm not sure if it's as clear as we want it to be so please let me know which angle you prefer.

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#42 Ghost Plane

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 00:32

I like this one. :thumbup:

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#43 Rich L

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:33

I was trying to write with a different arabic font in this reply but it didn't work hence the attached "picture post."

The URL for the font is http://www.designres...e-for-download/

OK, sorry, I'll go 'way for a while.

Cheers,
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  • arabic font.png

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#44 smk

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 14:27

I like this one. :thumbup:


Cool - Lessons 13 and 14 are uploaded now and linked at the top of this thread.

Rich - that is the Diwani script, a lovely flowing style that is a joy to learn and use. It's a bit tricky though and there are a couple of mistakes in the ligatures but its understandable.

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#45 Rich L

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 18:44

Rich - that is the Diwani script, a lovely flowing style that is a joy to learn and use. It's a bit tricky though and there are a couple of mistakes in the ligatures but its understandable.

Salman


Interesting. I didn't write that - it came from the keyboard. So where are the errors? The only thing I can see is that the joined font for "dhaal" ( in هكذا ) looks a lot like a "zay" and the joined font for "daal" ( in عندك ) looks a lot like a "raa'" . I checked that a couple of times because it looks like a mis-spelling. Is that the problem?

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#46 Cream Soda

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:39

I started learning arabic a little while ago, using the Alif Baa books. The handwriting they taught was a little weird, and I was wondering if maybe it was a regional thing (I think the series focuses on egyptian arabic) or just a weird author thing. The primary things that jump out are writing siin and shiin as just straight lines (not drawing the teeth), and starting any letters preceding the giim shaped letters well above the line. Is this sort of like a palmer method in arabic, or are the Alif Baa books just crazy?

#47 smk

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:13

Interesting. I didn't write that - it came from the keyboard. So where are the errors? The only thing I can see is that the joined font for "dhaal" ( in هكذا ) looks a lot like a "zay" and the joined font for "daal" ( in عندك ) looks a lot like a "raa'" . I checked that a couple of times because it looks like a mis-spelling. Is that the problem?

Cheers,
Rich


The 'dhaal' and 'daal' do look like 'zay' and 'raa' - but that's the way they are are written in Diwani. An independent 'daal' is even stranger and much bigger than one would expect :-)

The two problems I see with this font are:

1. The ligature for 'kaaf' and 'alif' is not correct. The 'kaaf' in this sequence should be a small circle (like a 'qaaf') that joins with the 'alif' on the left side. The angled stroke of 'kaaf' then comes close to the point between the top of the circle and the shaft of the 'alif'.

2. The 'noon' with the wavy tail is supposed to have the dot at the top of the tail. The inside dot joined to the bowl style does not have the wavy tail. This, however, can be excused as Diwani allows for a lot of freedom and can be considered a personal style of the Calligrapher/Font designer.

Thanks for sharing these, I enjoy these discussions.

Salman

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#48 smk

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:24

I started learning arabic a little while ago, using the Alif Baa books. The handwriting they taught was a little weird, and I was wondering if maybe it was a regional thing (I think the series focuses on egyptian arabic) or just a weird author thing. The primary things that jump out are writing siin and shiin as just straight lines (not drawing the teeth), and starting any letters preceding the giim shaped letters well above the line. Is this sort of like a palmer method in arabic, or are the Alif Baa books just crazy?


First off, welcome to FPN and the Penmanship forum Cream Soda.

The siin and shiin styles with the straight line without the teeth is a valid way to write them. In fact, you'll find most handwriting done that way.

The letters preceding giim ('jeem' in my examples) shapes are connected to the top of the letter in its final form. This necessitates that the middle or initial forms of preceding letters be written high enough above the line so we have enough space for the bowl of the jiim.

You have made me realize that I have not mentioned anything about the placement of the letters relative to the line they are written on. I should mention that in the words and phrases lesson (still to come).

You have a lot of freedom to form the ligatures and shape words to suit your own style in Arabic. While there are standard writing styles (like Riq'a), you'll be hard pressed to see one that is not personalized in some way. In fact, the same is true for Calligraphic hands to some degree.

Thank you for asking a very pertinent question.

Salman

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#49 smk

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 16:03

Lesson 15 ('laam', 'meem' and 'noon') and Lesson 16('haa', 'wow' and 'yaa') are up.

I will do a couple more to show some words and phrases examples. Please do ask questions if you have any so I can include them in the videos.

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#50 Rich L

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 18:26

The 'dhaal' and 'daal' do look like 'zay' and 'raa' - but that's the way they are are written in Diwani. An independent 'daal' is even stranger and much bigger than one would expect :-) Yes! I saw that!

The two problems I see with this font are:

1. The ligature for 'kaaf' and 'alif' is not correct. The 'kaaf' in this sequence should be a small circle (like a 'qaaf') that joins with the 'alif' on the left side. The angled stroke of 'kaaf' then comes close to the point between the top of the circle and the shaft of the 'alif'. Question below

2. The 'noon' with the wavy tail is supposed to have the dot at the top of the tail. The inside dot joined to the bowl style does not have the wavy tail. This, however, can be excused as Diwani allows for a lot of freedom and can be considered a personal style of the Calligrapher/Font designer.

Thanks for sharing these, I enjoy these discussions. As I do.

Salman


Salman,

I never want to write anything that is incorrect but I do understand that there are artistic liberties taken in calligraphic script. When you say "incorrect," what exactly do you mean? The reson I'm asking is that there are numerous sources of the Diwani script I've seen just recently where the alif, noon, kaaf ligatures are identical to what's in the font I used. By the way, are you talking about the word كان in the phrase? Comparison picture of Diwani and conventional font of the word كان attached.

Also, what small circle in the kaaf-alif sequence is there? Are you talking about something like in the picture below - (hand written كان)? I'm really good at typing كان now! As you know, when I type using this Dawani font, I have no choice in what comes out.

Thanks. I strive to learn.

Cheers,
Rich

Attached Images

  • dawani.png
  • kaaf-alif-noon.jpg

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#51 smk

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 19:34

Yes - that 'kaaf-alif-noon' is what I'm talking about. The shape of the 'kaaf' in the conventional example above comes from the elongated shape found in Naskh and Thuluth. In the font, the shape is modified so as to be usable in more than one situation and has been shortened to maintain uniformity. IMO fonts don't make great sources of writing styles since a number of compromises have to be made when adapting a hand for typographical purposes.

Here is a page of instruction for the letter 'kaaf' in Naskh:

Posted Image

The reason I say it is incorrect in Diwani is because the elongated 'kaaf' before an 'alif' or 'laam' does not exist in Diwani (at least not in classic Diwani). Diwani is a script that not only allows but expects certain creativity in ligatures, however this ligature is pushing the boundaries of that allowance.

Here is a page of instruction from one of several manuals I have for Diwani (none of which show the long 'kaaf' shape as a possibility).

Posted Image

You might enjoy perusing this pdf which contains instructions on five different hands, including Diwani: Teach Yourself Arabic Calligrphy - 5 scripts

I'm not even close to being any kind of authority so I may be wrong in my rather strong stance on this one. Can you point me to the pieces where you saw this style.

Salman

Edited by smk, 02 December 2012 - 19:36.

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#52 Rich L

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 21:37

Ah, thanks! I understand the point. A font has to do what a font can do and the "real" script does other things.

http://www.designres...e-for-download/ This site has "B Fantezy" and "Diwani letter" (pretty much the same) and I saw variations on the theme just by Googling "Diwani script." That search brought up many other styles such as the ones you mention.

http://www.myscribew...om/index.1.html has a really nice Diwani example of a phrase I can't quite make out and it actually shows those little circles you talk about - I think.

Thanks for the pictures.

Cheers,
Rich

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#53 smk

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 22:04

Interestingly the Diwani script is meant to be hard to decipher. At one stage the script was used for writing court documents (Diwan -> court, Diwani -> pertaining to court) and the scribes wanted the writing to be hard to understand by the untrained.

Check out some of the Diwani examples here: Online Gallery of Wissam Shawkat.

This is a composition I did on Papyrus (which turned out to be pretty hard to use for Calligraphy): SOL Composition

Salman

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#54 Rich L

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 22:24

Interestingly the Diwani script is meant to be hard to decipher. At one stage the script was used for writing court documents (Diwan -> court, Diwani -> pertaining to court) and the scribes wanted the writing to be hard to understand by the untrained. Well, that worked out well.

Check out some of the Diwani examples here: Online Gallery of Wissam Shawkat.

This is a composition I did on Papyrus (which turned out to be pretty hard to use for Calligraphy): SOL Composition

Salman


Your composition on papyrus is impressive!

Cheers,
Rich

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#55 Ghost Plane

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:25

photo.JPG And looks even better framed and under glass. ;)

Edited by Ghost Plane, 03 December 2012 - 01:35.

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#56 Rich L

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:31

practice ...

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#57 smk

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:19

Rich - this is excellent work. The 'kaaf + raa' combination in the first word is done very nicely. The 'ayn' in the second word is just right - something that trips a lot of people up. The size of the 'meem' in all instances is spot on.

The only thing I can notice is that there is no notch after the 'Saad' in the last word. I might be wrong since the image is pretty small.

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#58 smk

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:21

And looks even better framed and under glass. ;)


GP - it does look better framed :-) Thanks for sharing this picture.

Salman

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#59 Rich L

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 15:23

Rich - this is excellent work. The 'kaaf + raa' combination in the first word is done very nicely. The 'ayn' in the second word is just right - something that trips a lot of people up. The size of the 'meem' in all instances is spot on. Thanks!

The only thing I can notice is that there is no notch after the 'Saad' in the last word. I might be wrong since the image is pretty small.


That's because it's not a "saad" - it's a "Haa'" - the word حمار meaning donkey, right? What does صمار mean?

Cheers,
Rich

Edited by Rich L, 04 December 2012 - 15:36.

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#60 smk

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 17:25

Ah - I see now. I don't know if there is word صمار but thought it might be a variation of السمار (to chat - I think).

The 'laam' typically joins the 'Haa' at the top of the first horizontal stroke and the mouth of the 'Haa' is left open like this الحمار (except the meem should be under the horizontal as in your example).

This is covered in Lesson 10.

Salman

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