The latest Stylus

[Titivillus]

I have decided that I can't leave my Stylus lying around the house. In this issue there are two pornographic pens by Grayson Tighe one of which is the full inside of the back cover done twice (as pen then background). It is not art it is just obscene but then again this is the same magazine that didn't think twice about the 'mechanical watch' ad and the manufacturer that likes to have topless women on his pens I should have expected no more.

 

 

Kurt H

Edited July 2, 2005 by Tytyvyllus

[Guest Denis Richard]

Fortunately, no kids yet here, so I can leave it lying around... that is when I finally receive the current issue <_<

 

Edit : "Fortunately" that I don't have to worry about hiding magazines, not that we don't have kid yet !

Edited May 3, 2005 by Denis Richard

[ElaineB]

I don't get Stylus magazine but I've heard these Tighe pens mentioned before and don't really understand. What's the name of this line? Are they truly intended to be pornographic? ("Come upstairs and see my etchings sometime!") Seems like a good way to limit one's market...

 

...although actually, judging from the content of my daily spam deluge, perhaps there are lots of guys who'd quietly shell out the $$ for something a little racy. Maybe it's a moneymaker? I dunno. The last thing I saw from Grayson Tighe were those silver enamel Comedia dell'arte pens, which were completely innocuous.

 

ElaineB

[Leslie J.]

I was very displeased with the Tighe pen picture on the back inside cover. My kids are teen girls, but still. If you haven't seen the pic, the pen depicts a nude woman with three strategically placed diamonds. I can't imagine that a male version of this pen would have been considered a family friendly image. Boo on Stylus for deeming this ad okay for print. <_<

[Maja]

I won a year's subscription to Stylus from RS (thanks, Avery, if you are reading this!) but I'm still waiting for the latest issue to arrive. The previous one was mailed Feb.23rd, so I am hoping that this one was mailed April 23rd or so...

 

When I see for myself what y'all are talking about, thenI will make a comment. The nearest store that carries Stylus is a bit of a drive, so I'll wait for my issue to arrive...

[david i]

what is "pornographic"?

 

Is this an observation, a conclusion, or a disproportionate pejorative.

 

Do the involved pens (i've not seen them) show sex acts or simply nudity.

 

In most of the world, nudity is art.

 

It also is page 3 every day in England.

 

Let's have some more details. Perhaps folks here just are a bit prudish.

 

-david

[Elaine]

I stopped subscribing to stylus for similar reasons. I liked the articles but I felt that I wasn't the target audience for the magazine. In my case it's the advertising that got to me. The one with the two women with one of them holding a pen suggestive of where it was going next...

 

David, I agree that nudity in art can be beautiful. I'm not a prude. The watch fiasco was not art and I wouldn't even say it was erotic. It was simply porn. Graphic descripiton of a sex act where the woman was clearly not a happy participant. The ads in the magazine may not be porn, but they were clearly intended for men to associate owning a certain pen with sexual prowess. They were not intended to appeal to women.

[Titivillus]

what is "pornographic"?

 

Is this an observation, a conclusion, or a disproportionate pejorative.

 

Do the involved pens (i've not seen them) show sex acts or simply nudity.

 

In most of the world, nudity is art.

 

It also is page 3 every day in England.

 

Let's have some more details. Perhaps folks here just are a bit prudish.

 

-david

David,

 

Why not get your dictionary out and see what the definition is and you would be suprised to see how broad that definition really is. This time it's not a sex act but before it was.

 

when you've seen the pens then let's talk. Until then you are just making suppositions.

 

Maybe I am prudish but why is that a problem? If this is something that would be considered full frontal nudity and not be in something less than an R rated movie in the United states, maybe it can be considered pornorgaphic.

[papyrus]

Some would argue that fountain pens are phallus symbols anyway...

[ElaineB]

Maybe I'll regret wading in here... but...

 

After I posted last night, I was curious enough to go looking for these pens. I saw them on the Grayson Tighe web site, under "New designs" or something like that.

 

And honestly, I thought they are no different from any of the 10,000 European and American paintings hanging up in art museums all over the world. On a critical level, I didn't find the female forms to be all that well executed. (Rubens and Rembrant have nothing to worry about here!) But on an ethical level, I didn't find them to be even slightly pornographic. I mean, here are some very well-known paintings that we studied in art history in college.

• Titian, Venus d'Urbano http://www.artchive.com/artchive/t/titian/...s_of_urbino.jpg
  Titian is one of my all-time favorite painters. He worked during the late Renaissance, and I have had the pleasures of seeing many of his paintings in person. Utterly magnificent. I adore this particular painting. She is so beautiful.
   
  
• Sandro Botticelli. Birth of Venus. http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/botti...venus/venus.jpg
  A very famous image that you can find everywhere in our culture: on totebags, notecards, posters in people's college dorm rooms.
   
  
• Giorgione (Renaissance painter). Venus asleep http://www.artchive.com/artchive/g/giorgio...enus_asleep.jpg
  Another well-known Renaissance painter. Venus was a popular subject at the time, as people were just rediscovering Greek and Roman mythology and its potent imagery.
   
  
• Peter Paul Rubens. Selections of paintings. http://www.artformgallery.com/rubens.htm
  Rubens is a Baroque master artist. I put him on the same level as Rembrandt. I've seen many, many of his paintings in person and they are so beautiful they take your breath away. The female nudes are utterly extraordinary. His ability to capture skin tones, texture, light... amazing.
   
  
• Edouard Manet. Olympia http://www.jssgallery.org/Other_Artists/Manet/Olympia.htm
   
  
• Pierre-Auguste Renoir. Bather. http://www.abcgallery.com/R/renoir/renoir183.html
  Renoir is one of the most famous French Impressionist painters. (This nude is typical of his work on this topic. He did hundreds of nudes, and the vast majority are held in major museum collections.)
  

And so on. Except for the lower quality of the Tighe images (he's simply not as good an artist!) I don't see any difference in the ethics or intentions of his work. I grew up going to art museums with my parents. I don't remember ever having my eyes covered in front of certain paintings, nor do I remember anyone ever covering the eyes of their own children as they walked the galleries. Our culture has celebrated the female form for centuries.

 

Well, as I said, I'm probably going to regret wading into this one. I guess I just don't understand the hoopla. But then again, I'm just a Yankee hippy liberal from New England. I guess many people consider our morals to be quite suspect anyway.

 

ElaineB

[Leslie J.]

I stopped subscribing to stylus for similar reasons. I liked the articles but I felt that I wasn't the target audience for the magazine. In my case it's the advertising that got to me. The one with the two women with one of them holding a pen suggestive of where it was going next...

This is exactly how that ad made me feel too. Like the target audience of the magazine was strictly men only. That bugs me to an extreme, but that's just one of my pet peeves.

 

I don't know if I'd term it pornographic, nor obscene. Certainly it's art in it's own way, although the woman is in a suggestive pose, and her body, if it were real, would make her no more than an atomically correct silicone enhanced Barbie. :bonk: Still, it bothered me. Maybe I'm sensitive after being bombarded with Krone advertising.

[Guest Denis Richard]

I think it is a bit dangerous to compare the role of nudity in European and American culture. Those two worlds are so different.

 

There are many French movies with full nudity. My wife used to ask me why do we need to show those hairy parts ? Well... we don't need to. But sometimes the story requires it. If it seems natural, then I am not shocked. Honestly, what seems more natural to you : two people getting out of bed in the morning naked, or the same people in freshly pressed pyjamas and perfectly fixed hair ? On the other hand, Hollywood scenes where you don't see any hair or nipple but see two sweaty bodies bumping on each other, shot with shaking camera and techno music, don't do it for me. It just seems like a trick to catch the fans of such or such actor or actress to come see the hot scene in the movie.

 

So, nudity is not a problem in itself. Speaking of Grayson's pens, I would not say that they shock me (gotta awake pretty early to shock me...), but I see what can be seen as a problem. You won't see much nudes in European art with disproportionate breast (yes people, despite what you see in the media, those are not standard size ) or suggestive poses. Nude in European art is rarely erotic. Take a look at "L'origine du monde" by Courbet. It is really not meant to be arousing. It makes a point.

 

So, my personal standard is : Does it make a point, is it a medium, or is it just meant to replace the Playboy we used to look at secretly when we were teenagers (ya.. I know you did it ! ), by a more acceptable alternative ?

 

Lastly, I don't think there is anything morally wrong with pornography, as long as it remains where it should be.

 

And welcome to FPN David

[Leslie J.]

But Denis!!! I didn't look at Playboy as a teen.

 

I agree with what you say. I like the European approach to nudity much better. Well, in the sense that the movies I do see, the actors look more like real people, not cosmetic surgery adverts. Gives more realism to everything really.

 

As for this pen, I can deal with the nudity, and the fantasy form, but those diamonds bug the heck out of me. The lower one especially. Perhaps it is just art, but it represents a sexist unrealistic view of women to me. So there.

[Titivillus]

Maybe I'll regret wading in here... but...

 

After I posted last night, I was curious enough to go looking for these pens. I saw them on the Grayson Tighe web site, under "New designs" or something like that.

 

And honestly, I thought they are no different from any of the 10,000 European and American paintings hanging up in art museums all over the world.

That is all true but I was suprised to see it in a pen collecting magazine.

 

 

I didn't want to debate the use of nudes in art.

[RSVP]

I have not seen the watch incident , however I still maintain the same view on Grayson Tighe's "creations".

 

In my mind , resorting to such themes shows a distinct lack of creativity. This theme is recurrent throughout his collection, the graphic nature of these pens preys on the primeval psyche.

 

These pens masquerade as art so those who buy can feel a sense of justification. They are not to be considered artistic as they do not convey an a true message.

 

I am not saying however, that the artistic nature of this theme cannot be approached in the field of fountain pens (for the market share that exists). Take the Omas Casanova, it is not explicit per se , but a approaches the artistic concept with a greater sense of dignity and purpose, not focussing on the crude nature of the theme.

 

Please do not misunderstand me, these pens are not to my taste, but I have a respect for “art”, when it is “art”.

 

PS: The greatest irony of the fiasco is that for all the attention these pens have received , the one review I have read in which the pen was impartially reviewed found it to be less than mediocre in writing terms and lacking in terms of style and quality.

Edited May 4, 2005 by rimmerjar

[Guest Denis Richard]

PS: The greatest irony of the fiasco is that for all the attention these pens have received , the one review I have reading which the pen was impartially reviewed found it to be less than mediocre in writing terms and lacking in terms of style and quality.

Hi James,

 

Is that review online.

 

Denis.

[KCat]

i couldn't resist a comment here...

 

Leslie - all i can think of is your interpretation of the new Stipula...

 

and with that... I'll leave you all guessing.

[Guest Denis Richard]

i couldn't resist a comment here...

 

Leslie - all i can think of is your interpretation of the new Stipula...

 

and with that... I'll leave you all guessing.

I'm guessing this about the retractable Da Vinci

[wimg]

Hi KCat,

i couldn't resist a comment here...

 

Leslie - all i can think of is your interpretation of the new Stipula...

 

and with that... I'll leave you all guessing.

Eliciting a reply from me, are you now?

Talking about the Da Vinci?

 

Warm regards, Wim

[Leslie J.]

LOL! For shame, :meow: ! Right pen, yes. And that's all I can say on this board. :ph34r: :blink: :ph34r: :blink: :ph34r: