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Pelikan M1000 Ef Nib Or Pelikan M800 Ef Nib?


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#1 jmmp

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 19:52

Hello,

I am thinking about buying a Pelikan M1000 EF nib or M800 EF nib. The reason why I thought about these models is that I want a pen to use everyday, to write a lot (and write between lines) instead of a “signature pen”, for example with a B nib. I have a Pelikan M800 red 1.5 mm nib (stub) and I love it: I use it as signature pen and to write as well. I can’t write with this nib between lines, because it is big. I have a Pelikan M215 F nib too.
I have a MB 149 M nib and I use it as signature pen/write daily. However, the nib is very dry and I can’t write minutious words... I have a MB 146 F nib and I use it daily, to write between lines, minutious words. Although, the nib is not too smooth (as pelikan nibs) and when I write very quickly it doesn't work that well..

So I need a EF nib to use daily. My experience with Pelikan is good. I like the smoothness of M800 stub and M215 F nib. Very good response, dry...

And what about EF nib? I would like to know your experiences with M1000 EF and M800 EF.

1º Are these pens with this EF nibs responsive?
2º I have heard that EF nib is like F nib in other pens. Is that true?
3º Are they smooth as the majority of pelikan nibs?
4º Do they require lots of pressure to write?
5º Have they good ink flow?
6º Which one is better?
Sorry about all these questions, but I am thinking about buying one of these pens and I'm going to spend a lot of Money.

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#2 Shaporama

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 20:13

I can only speak about the big Pelikan. My M1005 EF is a very wet writer; I now use somewhat drier Pelikan 4001 ink to compensate. It is very smooth and requires very little pressure (the nib has been called "springy" and I can attest to that). Its a very big pen, noticeably larger than the M800. If you are accustomed to the size of the 149 you'd probably enjoy the M1000.

#3 jmmp

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 20:31

I can only speak about the big Pelican. My M1005 EF is a very wet writer; I now use somewhat drier Pelican 4001 ink to compensate. It is very smooth and requires very little pressure (the nib has been called "springy" and I can attest to that). Its a very big pen, noticeably larger than the M800. If you are accustomed to the size of the 149 you'd probably enjoy the M1000.


And another reason ( I think) is that you can store a lot of ink in M1000 and it is an advantage for everyday use. You don't need to recharge everyday! In your opinion Is M1000 Ef nib semi-flex/flex? Can you write a bit large line with some pressure?

Edited by jmmp, 25 October 2012 - 20:31.

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#4 Scriver

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 20:34

I have a Pelikan 800 with an EF nib obtained from Richard Binder. The nib writes finer than my Waterman Carene Fine or my (now lost) Visconti Cosmopolitan Extra Fine but less fine my Sailor 1911 Fine. The nib is not as smooth as any of those pens, but nor would I describe it as scratchy. Instead, to me, the pen has a little tooth, a bit like an Aurora. I am very happy with it.

#5 peterpen53

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 20:42

Bear in mind that the M1000 nib is not only larger but also very different from the M800. It's not semi-flex or whatever flex you call it, but very soft and springy, as said by a previous poster, while the M800 is undoubtedly smooth but much more stiff. To say that one is better than the other is quite useless since they are so different. If you get the chance, try a M1000 before you buy.
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#6 Ytland

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 21:12

Also it's worth noting that the M1000 does *not* hold any more ink than the M800. (Source: Bo Bo Olson who will almost certainly chime in on this any minute to tell us that a vintage nib is the best way to go for maxi-semi/flexi Posted Image Good on ya mate!) The largest capacity Pelikan is said to be the vintage 400NN, and my own experiences confirm this.

Modern M800 nibs are very, very stiff. Very. There's almost no spring to them at all, which I found incomparably depressing for a gold-nibbed pen.


Hope it helps.
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Edited by Ytland, 25 October 2012 - 21:12.

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#7 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 21:50

I don't have a 1000 or an 800.
I read the 1000 is as Peter Pen said soft and springy. (Many with little idea of what semi-flex is say that it is semi-flex...one guy that might know enough said his was semi-flex....but he never said if the nib spread 3 X.It might just have been a springy + nib.)
Had I known for sure the 1000 was semi-flex, I'd have it on my buy list. I have 25 semi-flex pens.


What do you want the nib to do?

Capacity of Pelikan pens for ink.
Off the top of my head, modern 200/400 = 1.27.
600 and 800 =1.37
1000 I think 1.47 which is under the 149's 1.60.
Pelikan 400NN = 1.97.

Facts from some nice poster a long time ago.

I was also shown that some cartridges or even two short international hold a lot of ink.

Going against my grain...which is the semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex...I'd suggest an EF nail.
It will stay narrow at all times, it won't suddenly write wider because you put a bit of pressure on it.

Another question is do you want a nice springy all day ride with an occasional F line (1000), or do you need a tiny EF line at all costs.(800)
Could go for a 600 EF...in regular flex. It's a nice medium large pen. Why keep things simple? :rolleyes:

The thing is with a semi-flex or the 'flexi' the tines will spread 3 X's a light down stroke.

My MB Woolf is a springy nib...it spreads it's tines a tad easier than a regular flex, but in my nib is a B, it does not spread it's tines 3X but 1 1/2.
That is not a fair comparison the width is too wide.
It's an easy ride.
Springy is upward bend, semi-flex is that + tine spread.

One of the guys with a 1000 will have to tell you how wide the nib tines spread and with light, medium or fair pressure.

I have a 'flexi' EF that writes to a F-M with with some not a lot of pressure.
So no a 400NN is not for you even if you can find it in EF. You could get an F ground down to EF. It's not the nib/pen for you.

A PFM is a good sized pen, with the vintage narrow sharp writing line of the old time Sheaffer nib.
You could look for that too, in EF for a very nice nail.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 26 October 2012 - 09:28.

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#8 yotiao

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 02:34

I have Pelikan M1000 EF and F and M800 F. M1000 EF is my daily writer and I am using it to write between lines (single spacing in microsoft word, printed) at the moment. I also have M200, M400, M600 and M800, however, the nib of M1000 is very good so I use it more often than other Pelikans. I acquired M1000 last until I have all the other souveran, it's a good choice and if I could start all over again, I should have bought the M1000 first and save the money from buying others.
The M1000 nib is springy, hard to describe and you will have to try it first. I also have Nakaya's soft F and soft M, for me I like the M1000 nib much better, in terms of springiness, softness and wetness.
English is not my mother tongue, please excuse me.

#9 jmmp

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:14

I don't have a 1000 or an 800.
I read the 1000 is as Peter Pen said soft and springy. (Many with little idea of what semi-flex is say that it is semi-flex...one guy that might know enough said his was semi-flex....but he never said if the nib spread 3 X.It might just have been a springy + nib.)
Had I known for sure the 1000 was semi-flex, I'd have it on my buy list. I have 25 semi-flex pens.


What do you want the nib to do?

Off the top of my head, modern 200/400 = 1.27.
600 and 800 =1.37
1000 I think 1.47 which is under the 149's 1.60.
Pelikan 400NN = 1.97.

Facts from some nice poster a long time ago.

I was also shown that some cartridges or even two short international hold a lot of ink.

Going against my grain...which is the semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex...I'd suggest an EF nail.
It will stay narrow at all times, it won't suddenly write wider because you put a bit of pressure on it.

Another question is do you want a nice springy all day ride with an occasional F line (1000), or do you need a tiny EF line at all costs.(800)
Could go for a 600 EF...in regular flex. It's a nice medium large pen. Why keep things simple? :rolleyes:

The thing is with a semi-flex or the 'flexi' the tines will spread 3 X's a light down stroke.

My MB Woolf is a springy nib...it spreads it's tines a tad easier than a regular flex, but in my nib is a B, it does not spread it's tines 3X but 1 1/2.
That is not a fair comparison the width is too wide.
It's an easy ride.
Springy is upward bend, semi-flex is that + tine spread.

One of the guys with a 1000 will have to tell you how wide the nib tines spread and with light, medium or fair pressure.

I have a 'flexi' EF that writes to a F-M with with some not a lot of pressure.
So no a 400NN is not for you even if you can find it in EF. You could get an F ground down to EF. It's not the nib/pen for you.

A PFM is a good sized pen, with the vintage narrow sharp writing line of the old time Sheaffer nib.
You could look for that too, in EF for a very nice nail.



Ohh that is a good explanation. I dind't know those concrete things/facts about flex. Thank you very much! ;). I am thinking of buying M1000 essentially because of the springiness ! I have an old pelikan which number I don't know ( I think is 100) and as you describe maybe I'll test it. My grandfather gave me it; it has my name engraved so I don't use that regularly. However when I'll go back to my hometown I'll take some pictures and I ask the forum!

Edited by jmmp, 26 October 2012 - 08:17.

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#10 jmmp

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:16

I have Pelikan M1000 EF and F and M800 F. M1000 EF is my daily writer and I am using it to write between lines (single spacing in microsoft word, printed) at the moment. I also have M200, M400, M600 and M800, however, the nib of M1000 is very good so I use it more often than other Pelikans. I acquired M1000 last until I have all the other souveran, it's a good choice and if I could start all over again, I should have bought the M1000 first and save the money from buying others.
The M1000 nib is springy, hard to describe and you will have to try it first. I also have Nakaya's soft F and soft M, for me I like the M1000 nib much better, in terms of springiness, softness and wetness.


Yes, I herd many people saying that is a pleasure to write with M1000 nib :)
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#11 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:02

OK, last night as I came back to add something important, the com was down for maintenance.

18 K nibs are known to bend easier than 14 K nibs,and stay bent. :headsmack:
:embarrassed_smile: So I don't recommend any owner of a 1000 to push the nib to see if it will spread 3X.

I realized that as I checked out my modern MB 18 K nib that I did not push it...subconsciously I knew not too.

If the 18 K nib was one of the vintage 18 C nibs, that is a completely different alloy with much more flexibility.

Just accept a springy nib will give you a nice ride, as it's designed to, and don't push it into doing the splits of any sort.
xxxxxxxxxx
Rick said this, and he repairs Pelikans so knows better then me. Out side of special D nibs...manifold nibs.

The 100 or 100N 14 Karit should be easy full flex/super-flex. I have one.
A 140 14 C a semi-flex.(have one) :vbg:
I don't know about the 400-400N from 1950-55.
The 400NN 14 C from 1956-65 should be a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. :notworthy1:

The 120 '50's-65 is a regular flex nib with a bit of spring to it. A joy to write with and matches my M400 14 C from '90-97 IMO nib wise.


From my reading, Normally a 14 C or if one is lucky on an 18 C nib is normally a bit more flexible than the K nibs....out side the pre war 100 or 100N...mine says Karit. I do not know a lot about the '30's nib alloys.


First you should have a light hand for this 100 nib.

Your 100 may have been setting a long time, so might have a bit of micro-corrosion of the 'iridium' tip.

Check the tine aliment with a 10-12X loupe.

If aligned and a tad scratchy, go to the Brown Paper Bag trick.
Using a good quality brown paper bag or cardboard box.

Writing normally, in 4-6 fifteen second sets(no more than 6 sets is needed), Rotating the nib so you don't make a flat spot; write circles left and right, squiggles up and down, left and right. Check after every set how smooth the nib now is.

The brown paper bag is one of the least abrasive ways of smoothing a nib a bit to smooth enough.

You do not want to spend all day trying to get a butter smooth nib. It should be smooth enough after six sets. It could be smooth enough after three or four sets. That is why you check after each set.

I'm not heavy into butter smooth...which can make a nib wider. A tad of tooth is good, a bit of feel....no drag.
You don't want to loose touch with the paper.

That 100-100N should be filled with water when not in use the cork is 80 years old.

If the pen will not suck water well, because it's been let to dry out. You can try to re-hydrate it, by taking off the blind cap, putting it under water and spinning the piston so air bubble out of both sides. By and by some water will enter the the back of the pen. You may have to very, very gently remove the nib and fill the front of the barrel with water, then place the pen back down in a cup, turn every day. Every second day add water again. It takes a week to 10 days to re-hydrate a dead cork, when it works. It took me a long time to learn, it takes at least a week to re-hydrate a dead cork.

Half my '30's-40-early '50's dead corks re-hydrated enough for use. When I don't have them inked, I have them watered.

If you re-hydrated it's only a temporary solution, sooner or later it needs to be re-corked.
In the Marshal and Oldfield "Pen Repair" book, a properly boiled in mineral oil and bees wax cork is smoother than a plastic gasket or O ring replacement for cork.

I had never expected to own a 100 or 100N, but stumbled on it at a Flea Market real dirt cheap, €15.

It's a great nib and pen for Fun Alone at Home, on good paper. :thumbup:

As an easy full flex nib, it will spread it's tines so is again not the pen to do your work with.

Lucky fella you, having a great pen and nib...and didn't even know it.

Well, I had something similar happen to me. The first pen that started me on this addiction, was 'only' a wet writer...in I was real Noobie.
Later I found out it was a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex....then I had no idea what a semi-flex was, much less what a 'flexi' nib was.
Died after six weeks, and would not re-hydrate.
When I finally get around to re-corking, it will be one of the last pens I do, because I want enough experience.

One can 'cheat' and send them to a professional...but that would cost me paper and ink. :unsure:

Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 26 October 2012 - 10:11.

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#12 jmmp

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:19

OK, last night as I came back to add something important, the com was down for maintenance.

18 K nibs are known to bend easier than 14 K nibs,and stay bent. :headsmack:
:embarrassed_smile: So I don't recommend any owner of a 1000 to push the nib to see if it will spread 3X.

I realized that as I checked out my modern MB 18 K nib that I did not push it...subconsciously I knew not too.

If the 18 K nib was one of the vintage 18 C nibs, that is a completely different alloy with much more flexibility.

Just accept a springy nib will give you a nice ride, as it's designed to, and don't push it into doing the splits of any sort.
xxxxxxxxxx
Rick said this, and he repairs Pelikans so knows better then me. Out side of special D nibs...manifold nibs.

The 100 or 100N 14 Karit should be easy full flex/super-flex. I have one.
A 140 14 C a semi-flex.(have one) :vbg:
I don't know about the 400-400N from 1950-55.
The 400NN 14 C from 1956-65 should be a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. :notworthy1:

The 120 '50's-65 is a regular flex nib with a bit of spring to it. A joy to write with and matches my M400 14 C from '90-97 IMO nib wise.


From my reading, Normally a 14 C or if one is lucky on an 18 C nib is normally a bit more flexible than the K nibs....out side the pre war 100 or 100N...mine says Karit. I do not know a lot about the '30's nib alloys.


First you should have a light hand for this 100 nib.

Your 100 may have been setting a long time, so might have a bit of micro-corrosion of the 'iridium' tip.

Check the tine aliment with a 10-12X loupe.

If aligned and a tad scratchy, go to the Brown Paper Bag trick.
Using a good quality brown paper bag or cardboard box.

Writing normally, in 4-6 fifteen second sets(no more than 6 sets is needed), Rotating the nib so you don't make a flat spot; write circles left and right, squiggles up and down, left and right. Check after every set how smooth the nib now is.

The brown paper bag is one of the least abrasive ways of smoothing a nib a bit to smooth enough.

You do not want to spend all day trying to get a butter smooth nib. It should be smooth enough after six sets. It could be smooth enough after three or four sets. That is why you check after each set.

I'm not heavy into butter smooth...which can make a nib wider. A tad of tooth is good, a bit of feel....no drag.
You don't want to loose touch with the paper.

That 100-100N should be filled with water when not in use the cork is 80 years old.

If the pen will not suck water well, because it's been let to dry out. You can try to re-hydrate it, by taking off the blind cap, putting it under water and spinning the piston so air bubble out of both sides. By and by some water will enter the the back of the pen. You may have to very, very gently remove the nib and fill the front of the barrel with water, then place the pen back down in a cup, turn every day. Every second day add water again. It takes a week to 10 days to re-hydrate a dead cork, when it works. It took me a long time to learn, it takes at least a week to re-hydrate a dead cork.

Half my '30's-40-early '50's dead corks re-hydrated enough for use. When I don't have them inked, I have them watered.

If you re-hydrated it's only a temporary solution, sooner or later it needs to be re-corked.
In the Marshal and Oldfield "Pen Repair" book, a properly boiled in mineral oil and bees wax cork is smoother than a plastic gasket or O ring replacement for cork.

I had never expected to own a 100 or 100N, but stumbled on it at a Flea Market real dirt cheap, €15.

It's a great nib and pen for Fun Alone at Home, on good paper. :thumbup:

As an easy full flex nib, it will spread it's tines so is again not the pen to do your work with.

Lucky fella you, having a great pen and nib...and didn't even know it.

Well, I had something similar happen to me. The first pen that started me on this addiction, was 'only' a wet writer...in I was real Noobie.
Later I found out it was a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex....then I had no idea what a semi-flex was, much less what a 'flexi' nib was.
Died after six weeks, and would not re-hydrate.
When I finally get around to re-corking, it will be one of the last pens I do, because I want enough experience.

One can 'cheat' and send them to a professional...but that would cost me paper and ink. :unsure:



Oh I didn't expect this explanation. So complete! I stopped writing with that pen because it is old (despite of its mint condition) and it was an offer of my grandfather. However I tried and I remembered that I love it. When I'll back to my hometown I hope to take some pics (nib, etc) and show it! Thank you once again your great explanation. I am a real noob in semi-flex/flex concepts (and I admit I need to learn more generally), so I appreciate these words. I am not sure, but I think when I wrote with it the tins spread.. Actually, I am not sure.
However I'll show you some pics and I hope to try to write with it to see whether it is working!

Edited by jmmp, 26 October 2012 - 12:19.

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#13 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:58

Hurry Home. :vbg:

It took me a good couple of years to learn that stuff; I just hope to make the journey shorter for others.

Knowledge is built on a foundation. IMO one needs a basic set of nib widths before one slides into semi-flex, so it can be understood and appreciated.

Semi-flex is not for writing fancy extra wide letters, like an Easy Full flex. It makes certain letters a bit wider due to natural pressure. It's 'normally' a wet writer though I do have a dry writing semi-flex.
It gives a very nice ride; while giving you some of that 'old fashioned' fountain pen style.

Do check out shading inks, and good to better papers.
Sometimes because of it's wet writing a semi-flex does not give all the shading an ink has, some times with the right ink, it's very nice.

Logic seems to have little to do with nib, ink and paper dancing at midnight.

Do check out Richard Binder's com, for the article on how easy it is to over flex and spring a nib.One shouldn't try to max a nib, and with time, one learns how much which flex can be flexed with out pushing it.

For fancier wider lettered writing one goes to a more flexible nib. I think one should work one's way up the flex chain, allowing time for one's Hand to become naturally lighter.

Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 26 October 2012 - 17:02.

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#14 jmmp

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:38

Hurry Home. :vbg:

It took me a good couple of years to learn that stuff; I just hope to make the journey shorter for others.

Knowledge is built on a foundation. IMO one needs a basic set of nib widths before one slides into semi-flex, so it can be understood and appreciated.

Semi-flex is not for writing fancy extra wide letters, like an Easy Full flex. It makes certain letters a bit wider due to natural pressure. It's 'normally' a wet writer though I do have a dry writing semi-flex.
It gives a very nice ride; while giving you some of that 'old fashioned' fountain pen style.

Do check out shading inks, and good to better papers.
Sometimes because of it's wet writing a semi-flex does not give all the shading an ink has, some times with the right ink, it's very nice.

Logic seems to have little to do with nib, ink and paper dancing at midnight.

Do check out Richard Binder's com, for the article on how easy it is to over flex and spring a nib.One shouldn't try to max a nib, and with time, one learns how much which flex can be flexed with out pushing it.

For fancier wider lettered writing one goes to a more flexible nib. I think one should work one's way up the flex chain, allowing time for one's Hand to become naturally lighter.


Bo Bo Olson I have the pics. When publishing I notice :D It says "Pelikan Günther Wagner" and 14 karat F nib. I didn't fill the pen. I wait until show you and receive instructions :)

Edited by jmmp, 03 November 2012 - 15:54.

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#15 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 23:30

Finally, I tried out a 1000....great nib....even spent some of a second looking at the bling.

It is to me a semi-flex...but it is 18 K, so you need a nice medium to light hand. Remember 18 K will bend and stay bent if pushed...it is not the 18 C alloy of vintage nibs with some flex.

I have moved the 1000 up in my wish list right after a Soennecken 111/222.


To me that 1000's nib is better than my springy MB Woolf, which is not a bad nib...but I prefer a semi-flex.

Semi-flex will write wetter in that the tines spread naturally easier when writing.
That is why some find 1000 too wet, they have a heavier hand I think. Or it is just a wet writing semi-flex...that too is just as possible.
I don't hear much of folks saying I pressed the tines together like other wet writing nibs and it wrote dryer.
Could be I missed that or the owner didn't try to adjust flow.

Most of my semi-flex nibs are wetter writers than regular flex...some are wet writers. I do have a dry semi-flex or too also.

I think paper and ink matching will be needed, and a light hand.

The only problem I see for me with a 1000, is I'll have to get rid of a number of pens in that width and flex. :crybaby:

No pain, no gain.... :blink:

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#16 jmmp

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:36

Finally, I tried out a 1000....great nib....even spent some of a second looking at the bling.

It is to me a semi-flex...but it is 18 K, so you need a nice medium to light hand. Remember 18 K will bend and stay bent if pushed...it is not the 18 C alloy of vintage nibs with some flex.

I have moved the 1000 up in my wish list right after a Soennecken 111/222.


To me that 1000's nib is better than my springy MB Woolf, which is not a bad nib...but I prefer a semi-flex.

Semi-flex will write wetter in that the tines spread naturally easier when writing.
That is why some find 1000 too wet, they have a heavier hand I think. Or it is just a wet writing semi-flex...that too is just as possible.
I don't hear much of folks saying I pressed the tines together like other wet writing nibs and it wrote dryer.
Could be I missed that or the owner didn't try to adjust flow.

Most of my semi-flex nibs are wetter writers than regular flex...some are wet writers. I do have a dry semi-flex or too also.

I think paper and ink matching will be needed, and a light hand.

The only problem I see for me with a 1000, is I'll have to get rid of a number of pens in that width and flex. :crybaby:

No pain, no gain.... :blink:


Hello,

Sorry I apologise for answering so late. I have been busy :S. I have tried one Pelikan 1000 EF nib and it is marvellous. First, yotiao helped me sending pics and telling her experience. Second, I found last week that one of my friends have one and I tried it.

I ordered one from Niche Pens UK. Niche Pens is a very good store and they are very helpful answering every questions that I had. Very very helpful!! I have already made business with them. They are a very good seller!

It is a very good nib: big and soft like butter! I loved it. I hope it take the first position on my pen's collection!! On Christmas I'll see my pen :D :D :D

Should we be careful when we write with it? Should we write with careful of a total flex nib? I have read we should write with the hand in right position (not aside) with total flex nibs because of the tins (if we write aside we can pressure the right or the left tin and break the nib). Is the same thing with semi-flex?

Thank you!

João

Edited by jmmp, 17 November 2012 - 19:44.

"Life is simple - You make choices and you don't look back"

#17 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:31

No, semi-flex can be written in 14 K by the ham fisted.
In 14 K it's still a sturdy nib. It is not a 'flex' nib, it is a semi=almost flex nib.

As long as you are only slightly ham fisted the 18 K should do just fine.

I see no problems with the 1000 if you don't jack hammer.
Just grasp the pen like it is a featherless baby bird and write normal.
Don't make bird paste.
A light grip on the pen will help you write with a light hand.


Semi-flex:
Where your natural writing style puts more pressure on the letter it will be wider, if no slight extra pressure is put on a letter it will be the same as before.
We all put a bit more pressure on this or that letter, the starting letter of a word, crossing a T and so on.

Just enjoy that old fashioned fountain pen style the pen will give you. :thumbup:

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#18 FriendAmos

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:25

Hurry Home. :vbg:

It took me a good couple of years to learn that stuff; I just hope to make the journey shorter for others.

Knowledge is built on a foundation. IMO one needs a basic set of nib widths before one slides into semi-flex, so it can be understood and appreciated.

Semi-flex is not for writing fancy extra wide letters, like an Easy Full flex. It makes certain letters a bit wider due to natural pressure. It's 'normally' a wet writer though I do have a dry writing semi-flex.
It gives a very nice ride; while giving you some of that 'old fashioned' fountain pen style.

Do check out shading inks, and good to better papers.
Sometimes because of it's wet writing a semi-flex does not give all the shading an ink has, some times with the right ink, it's very nice.

Logic seems to have little to do with nib, ink and paper dancing at midnight.

Do check out Richard Binder's com, for the article on how easy it is to over flex and spring a nib.One shouldn't try to max a nib, and with time, one learns how much which flex can be flexed with out pushing it.

For fancier wider lettered writing one goes to a more flexible nib. I think one should work one's way up the flex chain, allowing time for one's Hand to become naturally lighter.



I have large hands and prefer large pens, so when I was looking at Pelikans I considered the M800 and M1000. Based on what I read here, about the (excesively) semi-flex nib of the M1000, I went with the M800. I really liked it but found it too small for my hands, so I sold it.

Sometime later I had the chance to try a M1000 in a penshop. I write with very light pressure, and contrary to everything I had read here I found that for me the M1000 (M) wrote in exactly the same manner as the M800 (M). Nor did I experience any of the alleged high springiness. I bought the pen.

Conculsion: Anyone considering an M1000 should consider their normal pressure and not just go by generic comments.

#19 Nibwitz

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:52

An M1000 without springiness? That's strange. When I tried one the springiness was a prominent characteristic of the M1000.
It made me wonder why Pelikan decided to design such a different nib compared to the rest of the Souverän line. In other words; why do we have to buy the largest, most expensive pen of the lot to obtain a pen with a (for me) pleasant soft nib?
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#20 FriendAmos

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 22:04

An M1000 without springiness? That's strange. When I tried one the springiness was a prominent characteristic of the M1000.
It made me wonder why Pelikan decided to design such a different nib compared to the rest of the Souverän line. In other words; why do we have to buy the largest, most expensive pen of the lot to obtain a pen with a (for me) pleasant soft nib?


Please read that again. Carefully. First, nowhere do I say anything about "an M1000 without springiness". Second, pay attention to the fact that I am relating MY experiences with the pen.

As far as I can tell if you write with sufficient pressure, you will find a noticeable difference between the M800 nib and the M1000. If you normally write with very little pressure (ie lightly) then you will may not (as in my case) notice any difference. In other words, don't assume that your experience when you tried it is universal.

As to why people buy the M1000, please don't assume that it's necessarily for the "springiness". That may be the case for some, but it is not universal. I now have three of the pens. I bought them because (i) I like Pelikans--the nibs, the pistons, etc. (ii) I have large hands, and the M1000 gives me the comfortable size I can't get in the other Pelikans.

Any questions?

Edited by FriendAmos, 08 January 2013 - 22:19.


#21 Nibwitz

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:03

@FriendAmos

I still think I can read properly; 'nor did I experience any of the alleged springiness'

Questions however do arise about your comprehensive reading capacities; where did I write a single line out of which one can make up that I assume people are buying the M1000 for it's springiness? Were did I write that I assume my experience is universal? Nowhere.

Now you read again, 'carefully': I stated: a pen with (for me) a pleasant soft nib



Anyway; I never did mean to question anyones motivation on buying or liking the M1000.
My point remains the same; I personally think it's a pitty that, as I am liking soft nibs, the M1000 is the only modern Pelikan pen I can find one in.

Enjoy your pen.
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#22 georges zaslavsky

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 22:20

I have testwritten a 1000 with an ef nib but it wrote too thin for me so I chose one with a f and later bought one with a m
Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time
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#23 Nibwitz

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 18:33

Today I again tested a M1000, and to my surprise the nib was not very springy. How can that happen? Has there been a change in manufacturing in recent years? A year ago I tested a M1000 which had a extremely soft nib, that made it very different compared to the M800 that I tried at the same occasion.
Also today, I wrote with a M800 'M' size nib, which was a bit disappointing to me. Not a lot of 'feedback'; a sort of 'numb' feeling on the paper. I must say that I wouldn't put my M200 steel nib aside for this M800...
As a Pelikan enthousiast, I was surprised by how well a Parker Duofold (small size) did write ('F'). Better than the M800, imho.
I wouldn't pay so much money for a C/C pen however.
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#24 Silent Speaker

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:04

Today I again tested a M1000, and to my surprise the nib was not very springy. How can that happen? Has there been a change in manufacturing in recent years? A year ago I tested a M1000 which had a extremely soft nib, that made it very different compared to the M800 that I tried at the same occasion.


I do hope that this is merely a one off manufacturing incident or an error of subjectivity; if not that would be a real pity and will definitely curb my enthusiasm for (and halt my plans for purchasing) a new M1000 in the near future.

Can anyone else who has fondled an M1000 of recent make(full gold cap jewel/end cap) verify this? Or report any similar experiences?

It would be a damn shame if Pelikan decided that it could no longer risk a softer nib for all the usual reasons why modern companies eschew softer nibs (user stupidity and carelessness being perhaps the prime reason).

#25 Nibwitz

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:26

I don't know the turnover-time of the shop where I tried the M1000, perhaps it has been there for a long time. I mean; could as well be that the older M1000 are stiffer than nowadays?
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#26 Silent Speaker

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:28

I don't know the turnover-time of the shop where I tried the M1000, perhaps it has been there for a long time. I mean; could as well be that the older M1000 are stiffer than nowadays?

That could be.
Do you happen to remember what the captop looked like?

#27 Nibwitz

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 17:29

No sorry I didn't look at that. I'm going to try another M1000 in a different shop tomorrow, so let's see...
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#28 Nibwitz

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:08

The continuing story; tried 3 different M1000's today; 2X F, 1xEF.
All three were 'springy': the tip of the nib gives in easy under pressure. Besides; both 'F' sized nibs were extremely wet writers; a very wet and dark line. For me personally to wet.
But I guess that such things can be adjusted.

Anyhow, the M800 nib is very stiff, and thus very different.

Also, I tried a M400, and to my surprise, it had a somewhat soft nib as well. Not like the M1000, but less stiff than the M600 and M800 I tried today.

Conclusion: the M1000 is springy, the other nibs are rigid, perhaps the Pelikan nibs differ a little, as can be seen with the M400 described here.
There are no 2 nibs the same I think.
"Le vase donne une forme au vide, et la musique au silence"
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