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Noodlers Konrad Vs Lamy Joy


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#1 cheesebear

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:46

Hi!

I'm new to this forum and fairly new to the world of fountain pens. I purchased my Lamy Safari a year ago and since then have bought a converter, several pots of ink, and a 1.5 Calligraphy nib. I'm getting into calligraphy but perhaps because the Lamy calligraphy nib is italic, I don't get quite the effects which I desire. Then again this could be because the Safari doesn't really allow for light gestures.
So, I decided to buy a new pen with my college-student budget which I can use for calligraphy and I'm stuck between the Lamy Joy and the Noodler's Konrad. I realize the Lamy Joy would use the same nibs as my Safari, but perhaps the body shape helps? I also understand that the Konrad's flexible nib isn't as flexible as vintage or more expensive pens. But again, college student budget! Haha. I'm also open to new suggestions, anything under $30US.

(Oh, I also have a tapered glass dip pen from J. Herbin but that's hardly suitable for calligraphy. I mainly own it for its novelty.)

Edited by cheesebear, 25 September 2012 - 01:47.


#2 Pen Is Mightier

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:46

I have a Noodler's Ahab that has the same nib as the Konrad and if you use a light to moderate touch you can use it for everyday writing and it is a very smooth writer. However using it for calligraphy you will need good absorbent paper and it takes a fair amount of pressure to bend, but it is still fun to use. I would recommend the Konrad for not only being a smooth and versatile writer, but also because it has a much larger ink capacity with the piston filling system.

Hope this helps!
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#3 iliadodyssey

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:36

Given your criteria, the lamy will write exactly the same as the one you have now and the flex pen will give a different look to your writing, especially if you tend to write with a rather heavy hand.

Edit: typo

Edited by iliadodyssey, 25 September 2012 - 03:37.


#4 welch

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 15:54

As best I can tell, the Konrad and the Ahab are intended for people who want to tinker with their pens. That can be fun. Almost any Lamy is intended to work with no modification.
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#5 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 16:30

Calligraphy pens like a Joy, or even a 1.5 Safari are held in front of the big knuckle at a slight canted angle and one draws the letter for quite a while from a book.

There are some six strokes that one can use later with easy full flex nibs.

An Ahab is a pen that gives you tine spread, but is not a flexible pen in the tines don't bend at the same time.
It is a good start, but requires 'semi-flex' pressure to work, and compared a true flexible nib, that is a lot of hard work.

Both nibs are on opposite sides of the writing styles.

You can not put a Joy in your pocket and go...it is much too long. Buy a 1.5 nib for your Safari...and see if you can find a Calligraphy book.

Of course you have to practice....why after two or so years I"m up to P. :embarrassed_smile: ;)
Why now I can almost spell practice....not quite. :unsure:

Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 25 September 2012 - 16:31.

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.


#6 cheesebear

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:59

Thanks for all the tips! I'm still mulling it over, haha.

The only reason I'd buy a Lamy Joy is because even though I have the 1.5 nib for my Safari, I use the EF nib for writing and it's the only pen I write with so it's a bit of a hassle to change the nibs every time I'm in the mood for calligraphy. So the Joy would stay at home with a 1.5 nib on while my Safari would continue to accompany me everywhere.

I do write with a pretty heavy hand so I think I'd be able to get the flex out of the Konrad (again, I'd love to be able to afford a proper wet-noodle pen, but alas!) but I don't want any trouble with it? Welch mentions it's for people who want to tinker with it and I don't think I'd really know what to do in terms of tinkering :P

The main reason I'm considering the Konrad is for line variation which I'd assume the flex nib gives? But if it isn't a huge amount of variation, say one which could be easily achieved by pressing on the Joy with different amounts of pressure, then I may just go with the Lamy since I'm already familiar. Hmm.

#7 cheesebear

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 06:13

Calligraphy pens like a Joy, or even a 1.5 Safari are held in front of the big knuckle at a slight canted angle and one draws the letter for quite a while from a book.

There are some six strokes that one can use later with easy full flex nibs.

An Ahab is a pen that gives you tine spread, but is not a flexible pen in the tines don't bend at the same time.
It is a good start, but requires 'semi-flex' pressure to work, and compared a true flexible nib, that is a lot of hard work.

Both nibs are on opposite sides of the writing styles.

You can not put a Joy in your pocket and go...it is much too long. Buy a 1.5 nib for your Safari...and see if you can find a Calligraphy book.

Of course you have to practice....why after two or so years I"m up to P. :embarrassed_smile: ;)
Why now I can almost spell practice....not quite. :unsure:


Good luck with your calligraphy-learning endeavors! I love that people in the West are still carrying it on because it truly does seem to be a dying art here while it still shines in the East.

#8 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:19

You don't press hard with a italic calligraphy to get line variation. it's all built in...The pen is to be held high, my book says before the first knuckle others have other books that might say otherwise.


With the proper flexible nib in Copperplate and Spenserian one presses a little bit harder; but those who do it, want fast snap back more than a big bellied letter.

In advanced search 'Classic Tripod" & 'Death Grip', will help you learn to hold a fountain pen properly and lightly.

With a fountain pen, held behind the big knuckle, and a light grip, like you would hold a featherless baby bird, you fountain pen skates on a small puddle of ink.

Held improperly it won't skate.

If you hold hard, press hard, that is left over from ball point way of making bird paste; then fountain pens become hard work, and one is condemned to nail nibs.
So you got to lighten up.

I use the forefinger up version of the Tripod grip, as discussed in the two threads I suggested.
One automatically grasps very lightly.
It takes though a long time to learn....up to two minutes.

Look in the pinned thread about using google to navigate in FPN, in the search application on this com is 'real '90's'.

Due to Mauricio's improved definition of Super-flex, I no longer use the term Easy Full Flex.

 

Semi-flex is an “almost” flex; not a ‘flex’ nib. It is great for regular writing with a touch of flair. It can give you some fancy; but it is not made for real fancy writing. For bit more of that get a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. Both spread tines 3X.  Those are not "Flex" nibs. 

 

Odd, how many who should know better, compares Japanese F (which equals EF), with Western F, with out a second thought, but do not compare Japanese B with Western B.

 

Wider than Normal does not exist. Wider than Japanese does. Every company has it's very own standard + slop/tolerance. Developed from the users of it's pens only; not the users of other companies pens. The size you grind a nib to, is your standard only. Paper and ink matter to nib width. Thank god for 1/2 sizes or it would be boring.