Left Handed Italic?

[Andrew H]

Today, my girlfriend and I received our package from Todd (isellpens.com, no affiliation)! :roflmho:

 

Our order included a Pilot 78G broad stub.

When I wrote with it, I got little/no line variation. I am left handed.

My girlfriend's trysts with the pen were much more "italic looking"--what I'd expect from a stub nib. She is right handed.

 

Is there a different technique (or other considerations) for left handed writers who wish to produce italic-looking script?

 

(Though, I am excited that my girlfriend can rock out the 78G, she's less cold toward fountain pens now that she has one that makes her handwriting pretty. )

 

Samples available on request.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Andrew H

[lovementos]

I'm no expert but I think it depends on how you write. I'm a lefty side-writer and the nib faces 4 o'clock when I write with stubs. That gives me the effect I want, but I'm not actually sure if that's good position to write in. Oh well.

Edited June 28, 2012 by lovementos

[ink mixer]

You may want to purchase one of the calligraphy books for left handed writers such as the one by Betsy-rivers(?). If you are a underhanded writer you have to turn the paper 90 degrees to the right to get the correct angles for Italic if you are using a straight nib. The beginning of the Fred Eager book also shows some examples. I have had a difficult tme retraining my mind to write with that orientation. There was a lot of strain in the beginning, but it went away with time. Oh, and one of the books mentions that you will need to compare the exemplars turned 90 degrees to the right. I also try to do a little bit of reading with a book turned to that orientation for practice.

Edited June 28, 2012 by ink mixer

[rapid_butterfly]

here is some decidedly non-expert advice: try some different nib angles. I am a left handed over-writer; I have the nib at something like this / angle, except closer to 45 degrees. That works well for me on fatter nibs (for me, an 0.7 is fat). For really thin italic nibs I seem to get better results with the nib like this ---- , that is to say, parallel. It also matters what angle you hold the pen, I've found. Holding the pen more "upright" seems to help.

 

ymmv, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jimmy Joe]

If you're not getting any line variation, it means that your nib orientation is changing as you write. If it were a matter of a constant, but odd angle because of being left-handed, you'd get line variation, but the thicks and thins would be in different places. For example, if your left-handed writing was done with a hand-position that is a mirror image of the standard 45-degree right-handed nib orientation, you'd get thick strokes where hairlines are expected and vice versa.

 

I'm not left-handed, but I'll second the suggestion to turn the paper 90-degrees and write downwards. That's the suggestion in Getty & Dubay's Write Now.

[Andrew H]

Turning the paper sounds promising.

 

To clarify, I should orient the paper such that the original top left corner is now the bottom left corner?

It would be a 90-degree turn counterclockwise:

      .___         ______
     |   |       |      |
     |   |  -->  |______|
     |___|       `

 

Jimmy Joe said to write "downward", which to me implies turning the paper the other way.

[katim]

If you look at the 'pinned' topics at the top of the list, you will see that Ann Finley has written an excellent set of instructions for achieving a beautiful italic hand. She is left-handed and provides a photograph of her hand placement when writing in this style, which shows that it is indeed possible to write italic left-handed. Keep practising - it's well worth the effort!

[ink mixer]

Andrew H,

Turning the paper like you described is for left handed underwriters. Once you turn the paper and hold the nib at 45 degrees the vertical and horizontal stroke should be equal. The diagonal stroke that comes towards you should have the biggest line width.

[Jimmy Joe]

Jimmy Joe said to write "downward", which to me implies turning the paper the other way.

What I meant was that, after turning the paper 90-degrees *clockwise*, instead of writing left-to-right from your own perspective, you'd end up writing top-to-bottom in "columns" that would be left-to-right when the paper is rotated back to its original position. When you do this, the left-handed -45 degrees becomes +45 degrees relative to the paper, and your hand leads the writing, like is normal for a right-hander writing left-to-right, instead of trailing it.

 

Like this, but rotated even more, to 90 degrees, to achieve the desired pen angle:

http://www.nibs.com/www/WEBSITE%20PICS/Left_hand_writers_images/wPat%20left%20hand%20writing%20LA%20show.JPG

[Andrew H]

Jimmy Joe said to write "downward", which to me implies turning the paper the other way.

What I meant was that, after turning the paper 90-degrees *clockwise*, instead of writing left-to-right from your own perspective, you'd end up writing top-to-bottom in "columns" that would be left-to-right when the paper is rotated back to its original position. When you do this, the left-handed -45 degrees becomes +45 degrees relative to the paper, and your hand leads the writing, like is normal for a right-hander writing left-to-right, instead of trailing it.

 

Like this, but rotated even more, to 90 degrees, to achieve the desired pen angle:

http://www.nibs.com/www/WEBSITE%20PICS/Left_hand_writers_images/wPat%20left%20hand%20writing%20LA%20show.JPG

This is less intuitive for me. Besides the reduced chance of smearing ink, does +45 have any other advantages over -45? Or is it just down to preference at that point?

Edited June 29, 2012 by Andrew H

[Jimmy Joe]

This is less intuitive for me. Besides the reduced chance of smearing ink, does +45 have any other advantages over -45? Or is it just down to preference at that point?

Well, this all started with a post about line variation in italic writing. Where the line variation occurs is a function of the pen angle relative to the line of the writing. For italic, that's about 45 degrees. That's what makes the serifs, joins, and other strokes that go upper right to lower left or vice versa into hairlines. If your pen angle is negative 45 degrees--what would be natural for a left hander with the paper in the same orientation that is normal for a right hander, the first position in your little diagram--suddenly what should be hairlines will become your thickest strokes, and what should be the thickest will become hairlines. And that would look very strange indeed.

 

With monoline writing, it doesn't really matter.

[Andrew H]

Sorry, what I mean is, are there advantages of rotating the paper clockwise vs counterclockwise by 90 degrees?

 

From what I understand:

Clockwise 90 has you leading the writing, as Jimmy Joe described.

Counterclockwise 90 has you trailing it as ink mixer described.

Either way, your italic nib is now angled such that your strokes are thick/thin when there's suppose to be.

 

Please correct me if I'm getting things mixed up.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Andrew H

[ink mixer]

I'm sorry, but I misread your earlier post. I agree with Jimmy Joe on the clockwise orientation.

[Andrew H]

I'm sorry, but I misread your earlier post. I agree with Jimmy Joe on the clockwise orientation.

Wouldn't the resulting script be the same, regardless?

Edited June 29, 2012 by Andrew H

[ink mixer]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8013/7472324514_43c92a0001.jpg[/url]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7119/7472324922_73a75a3da5.jpg

fpn_post_andrewh2 by ink mixer, on Flickr

[Andrew H]

Has anyone had any experience with obliques as an alternative to rotating the paper?

[lefty928]

Has anyone had any experience with obliques as an alternative to rotating the paper?

 

I was going to suggest using a left oblique (and ignore some advice online about using right obliques) -- but you still have to rotate the paper a bit. Besides dip pen nibs, I've gotten some nice custom left obliques from Pendemonium's nib person. And there are (or were) calligraphy pens for lefthanders. Underhanded writing makes it easier to avoid smearing the ink. Checking out the Betsy Rivers book might be helpful. I think John Neal Booksellers carries it.

[georges zaslavsky]

I think it should be possible if you handle pen your pen in the same way than righties do.

[tawanda]

Turning the paper sounds promising.

 

To clarify, I should orient the paper such that the original top left corner is now the bottom left corner?

It would be a 90-degree turn counterclockwise:

      .___         ______
     |   |       |      |
     |   |  -->  |______|
     |___|       `

 

Jimmy Joe said to write "downward", which to me implies turning the paper the other way.

 

Me too! I'm an underwriter who orients the paper so that I am writing towards my abdomen, or from the back of the desk to the front, rather than left to right. I have no prbolem using italic nibs writing this way.

 

As a side note, I thought 78g pens were no longer in production?

[lastwizard4]

I'm however, unsure, but are you guys referring to something like this? I posted this picture in our local FPN group.

 

I am also a leftie and my co-members advised me to use that way in writing.

 

Btw, using a 78G M nib on the picture.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/22685605/sn/252823300/name/IMG_7682.jpg