Noodler's Konrad

[nmatheis]

I just received a Noodler's Konrad in Roaring 20's Tortoise. I gave it the standard rinse with ammonia and water. Filled it up....hard starter....wrote three words....ink gushed out. Tried again... same thing. I unscrewed the piston mechanism to check the seals, lubricant, etc. Everything looked good. Put a bit more silicone on to replace what was lost fiddling with it. Back together and filled it up. Gusher. Pulled the nib/feed for inspection and gave the feed a good cleaning. Back together (the section doesn't really provide a very secure grip on the feed in my opinion) Guess what? Gusher. So I pull the piston out and run a light down the barrel looking at the feed. There is light pouring out around between the nib/feed and the walls of the section. No matter how I positioned the nib/feed there was always a gap running all the way around. I pulled the nib/feed out and checked for the air tightness of the barrel by trying to blow through it and by seeing if it will hold water when the feed is out and the section is pointing down. Passed those tests. I'm working under the assumption that the section gap is the only culprit. Any suggestions on how to fix this?

I just got a Roaring 20s Konrad from the Goulets. I cleaned it before use with JB's Pen Flush and rinsed thoroughly with clear water. It has almost the same issue, except mine has such a large gap between the nib and section that it won't even hold ink. If I try to draw ink up into it, it just drips right back out immediately. I tried removing and reseating the nib/feed without any success. The gap is present no matter how I position it - deep, shallow, twisting, etc. I tried removing the piston mechanism and using an eyedropper to add ink with the same result. As soon as I drop in some ink, it starts dropping right out of the gap between the nib and section. I've contacted the Goulets and am hoping that they'll help me out with this, as a basic prerequisite for any pen should be that it should hold ink. I don't mind fussing around with the nib/feed to optimize flow and had to do that with my Ahab, but having to heat and set/form the feed/section just so that the pen will hold ink - ridiculous!

Edited January 2, 2013 by nmatheis

[mhosea]

except mine has such a large gap between the nib and section that it won't even hold ink. If I try to draw ink up into it, it just drips right back out immediately.

 

A small gap there is normal for these pens, even when they're working properly. It needs to be small enough that the surface tension of the ink holds a seal there. The gap must be large indeed, or the ink flow very feely (I'm assuming you flushed out the JB's with clean water before inking, BTW) for the air to rush in there and for the ink to rush out from there as well. If it just flows out from that point, air must be flowing in from another place.

[pe2dave]

except mine has such a large gap between the nib and section that it won't even hold ink. If I try to draw ink up into it, it just drips right back out immediately.

 

A small gap there is normal for these pens, even when they're working properly. It needs to be small enough that the surface tension of the ink holds a seal there. The gap must be large indeed, or the ink flow very feely (I'm assuming you flushed out the JB's with clean water before inking, BTW) for the air to rush in there and for the ink to rush out from there as well. If it just flows out from that point, air must be flowing in from another place.

 

 

I now have 3 of these pens. Despite warming the section, blocking the channel, swapping nibs/sections I can hold any of the three nib down and watch ink dripping out. Hopeless. Pity since I actually like the soft nib.

 

 

I'm now seeking another pen that will take this nib, if anyone has a suggestion?

 

Dave

[mhosea]

I now have 3 of these pens. Despite warming the section, blocking the channel, swapping nibs/sections I can hold any of the three nib down and watch ink dripping out. Hopeless.

 

I would not expect any of that to work. If the nibs are snug enough to be held in place and the body is not cracked or deformed, the o-rings should be regreased with silicone grease and the feed heat set to the nib. All three of mine work fine, except that ink evaporates faster in them than in most if my other pens. All three had problems like you described when I got them.

[pe2dave]

I now have 3 of these pens. Despite warming the section, blocking the channel, swapping nibs/sections I can hold any of the three nib down and watch ink dripping out. Hopeless.

 

I would not expect any of that to work. If the nibs are snug enough to be held in place and the body is not cracked or deformed, the o-rings should be regreased with silicone grease and the feed heat set to the nib. All three of mine work fine, except that ink evaporates faster in them than in most if my other pens. All three had problems like you described when I got them.

 

Oh? Nathan does. I meant 'heat setting' by warming, as per Nathans video. There are no o rings, just a dimpled recess on the piston. It has been greased btw. Any other suggestions?

[mhosea]

 

Oh? Nathan does. I meant 'heat setting' by warming, as per Nathans video. There are no o rings, just a dimpled recess on the piston. It has been greased btw. Any other suggestions?

 

You said you warmed the section. That is something different from heat setting the feed that I know you can do to the ebonite Konrads. If you can heat set the section (not the feed) of a non-ebonite Konrad, I wasn't aware of it. That would be nice to do because I think it would help with the evaporation issue. If there's a video of that, I need to see it. The piston head is formed from two o-rings.

 

I am only trying to help. It just seems to me that if mine were fixable and yours are not, there must be some explanation. Mine do have Knox nibs on them, and I had to work at it to get the feeds properly heat set to these nibs, as they are shaped a little differently. I did see similar issues as you report when I didn't have it right on one if them. OTOH, it did seem to me that the stock flex nib's curvature was a little shallower in back, not matching the section all that well. This would create a larger gap above the nib than I see, but if that is the explanation, if that is the only difference, then how would any of them work properly with the stock nibs?

[pe2dave]

 

You said you warmed the section. That is something different from heat setting the feed that I know you can do to the ebonite Konrads. If you can heat set the section (not the feed) of a non-ebonite Konrad, I wasn't aware of it. That would be nice to do because I think it would help with the evaporation issue. If there's a video of that, I need to see it. The piston head is formed from two o-rings.

 

I am only trying to help. It just seems to me that if mine were fixable and yours are not, there must be some explanation. Mine do have Knox nibs on them, and I had to work at it to get the feeds properly heat set to these nibs, as they are shaped a little differently. I did see similar issues as you report when I didn't have it right on one if them. OTOH, it did seem to me that the stock flex nib's curvature was a little shallower in back, not matching the section all that well. This would create a larger gap above the nib than I see, but if that is the explanation, if that is the only difference, then how would any of them work properly with the stock nibs?

 

with your terminology, I heat set the feed/nib. The section is plastic.

 

"if that is the only difference, then how would any of them work properly with the stock nibs?"

Good question. That' why so many are facing this issue; me with 3 pens.

 

It would seem that air is escaping rather too rapidly up to the ink reservoir and ink returning.

The only explanation I have is that the manufacturing tolerances are too broad to make for a 100% reliable design.

 

Heat setting has (for me) failed. I'm hence left looking for another body (I have an Ahab which is fine. Just that I don't like the pen).

 

You mentioned an o'ring. Does yours actually have one? mine has a detent, which may hold one, but no o ring was provided, as with the original Noodlers flex.

 

Dave

[mhosea]

You mentioned an o'ring. Does yours actually have one? mine has a detent, which may hold one, but no o ring was provided, as with the original Noodlers flex.

 

I'm guessing you're referring to the valley formed between the two thick, side-by-side, replaceable o-rings on the piston head. If you have the more common black piston, they'll be the same color as the plastic, so difficult to visually distinguish from it, especially when greased up. There's a picture and article at Inknouveau.com showing the newer Konrad piston (top) compared to the one apparently from bygone years (bottom).

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yDFlBaWKaWQ/UD4X-PhhisI/AAAAAAAABRo/RXSx5KG2zmc/s1600/20001231-05157.jpg

 

 

Full article here.

 

 

The answer to your original question is, I think, that the Noodler's flex nibs should approximately fit a lot of pens. It's very similar in size to the Bulow and Knox K35 nibs sold by xFountainpens.com and so will probably will fit larger Jinhaos. Tonight I'll give it a try on my Jinhao 159 for you and see how it goes. Unfortunately, with plastic feeds, there is very limited adjustment possible, and even if the nib fits the feed properly, it is unlikely that the feed will accommodate the flow required to use the nib in flex mode for more than a stroke here and a stroke there.

Edited January 3, 2013 by mhosea

[pe2dave]

 

 

I'm guessing you're referring to the valley formed between the two thick, side-by-side, replaceable o-rings on the piston head. If you have the more common black piston, they'll be the same color as the plastic, so difficult to visually distinguish from it, especially when greased up.

 

Yes, in fact there are two o rings! I guess that fooled me.

 

Point taken about plastic feeds though. Shame Nathan / Goulet pens don't sell the feeds, then I'd feel easier

about messing with them.

 

Back to the video, see if I can pick up any more.

=====================================

from your comments it would seem to be the Chinese import pens that are likely to fit? I was hoping for a modestly priced major mfc, but as Nathan points out, they don't want users messing with the pens.

 

Dave

[Scrawler]

 

 

<snip>

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yDFlBaWKaWQ/UD4X-PhhisI/AAAAAAAABRo/RXSx5KG2zmc/s1600/20001231-05157.jpg

 

 

Full article here.

 

 

<snip>

My example of this pen has the newer (top) piston activation system. When I turn mine to push the piston down (expelling ink) the entire assembly unscrews, potentially making for a big mess. It is a shame, because I like the size and feel of the pen and I also like the crispness of the nib. It requires skill and manual dexterity to fill because the collar needs to be gripped tight to stop it unscrewing.

[mhosea]

My example of this pen has the newer (top) piston activation system. When I turn mine to push the piston down (expelling ink) the entire assembly unscrews, potentially making for a big mess.

 

Have you tried a small amount of shellac on the threads? The downside is that you'll have to heat the area to remove it (and there's not much to grab on to, so you'll have to do a proper job of heating it), but unlike other sealants you might think to use, shellac can at least be undone when the need arises.

[mhosea]

from your comments it would seem to be the Chinese import pens that are likely to fit? I was hoping for a modestly priced major mfc, but as Nathan points out, they don't want users messing with the pens.

 

Well here again, since it's about the same size as the Knox K35's, which in turn are the same size as the JoWo nibs used on Bexley's, I suppose it's possible that the flex nib could be adapted to a Bexley nib and feed unit. This is iffy (and likely involving some bending and grinding) because those fittings are molded and rather precise fits. What might be an insignificant difference in a typical assembly where the nib and feed are just loose parts pressed into the section might end up being a deal-breaker in the Bexley nib and feed thread-in assembly. I'll explore that tonight, too, but I'm a little pessimistic about it. OTOH, these convenient thread-in nibs aren't offered on all pens that use the larger Schmidt, Bock, and JoWo nibs. With effort we can probably identify some other candidates. BTW, I'm not sure if an air hole will be needed with these other feeds.

[Scrawler]

My example of this pen has the newer (top) piston activation system. When I turn mine to push the piston down (expelling ink) the entire assembly unscrews, potentially making for a big mess.

 

Have you tried a small amount of shellac on the threads? The downside is that you'll have to heat the area to remove it (and there's not much to grab on to, so you'll have to do a proper job of heating it), but unlike other sealants you might think to use, shellac can at least be undone when the need arises.

No, but I feel I should not have to and was wondering if anyone else had experienced this, or if it is a one off problem. I will probably use shellac, because I want to use the pen. I would fill it much more than take it apart, so the shellac is a good idea for my problem.

[mhosea]

OK, so I tried the nib from one of my Konrads in a Jinhao 159. It fits quite well. At first I pushed then nib in as far as it would go, but as this began to pinch the wings, I backed off a little. The feed was, however, fully inserted. It did still look about right. It wrote very well, nice and wet, but as expected it would exhaust the ink in the feed and stop writing. My guess is that there is insufficient air flow. I don't know if a breather hole in the nib would help or whether it's the feed that needs modification, or both, but something is needed.

 

I decided that the nib did not fit in a Bexley unit properly. I would not bother with this.

[pe2dave]

from your comments it would seem to be the Chinese import pens that are likely to fit? I was hoping for a modestly priced major mfc, but as Nathan points out, they don't want users messing with the pens.

 

Well here again, since it's about the same size as the Knox K35's, which in turn are the same size as the JoWo nibs used on Bexley's, I suppose it's possible that the flex nib could be adapted to a Bexley nib and feed unit. This is iffy (and likely involving some bending and grinding) because those fittings are molded and rather precise fits. What might be an insignificant difference in a typical assembly where the nib and feed are just loose parts pressed into the section might end up being a deal-breaker in the Bexley nib and feed thread-in assembly. I'll explore that tonight, too, but I'm a little pessimistic about it. OTOH, these convenient thread-in nibs aren't offered on all pens that use the larger Schmidt, Bock, and JoWo nibs. With effort we can probably identify some other candidates. BTW, I'm not sure if an air hole will be needed with these other feeds.

 

I tried that, blocking the air hole. It appeared not to make a difference. One issue niggling me. In the video Nathan suggested that the proper 'fit' was with the end of the slit opposite the section end? It's my belief that a tighter fit (pushed in more) will help stop the gushing? I find it very difficult to be precise when doing this, trying to get another odd millimetre, though I do think this is worth pursuing a bit more.

 

Thanks for the tests with the Chinese pens and Bexley. There may be others!

Edited January 4, 2013 by pe2dave

[mhosea]

I meant an air hole in the nib itself. The Konrad feed is designed not to need it, and Konrad nibs don't have it. But other feeds might be reluctant to let air back into the ink chamber without it. Actually I drilled an air hole in the nib, but it nearly improved it to the point that it would not write at all. I got it writing again, some, but in my considered opinion, for one reason or another, it didn't help anything.

 

One issue niggling me. In the video Nathan suggested that the proper 'fit' was with the end of the slit opposite the section end? It's my belief that a tighter fit (pushed in more) will help stop the gushing?

 

I really don't know. What I do know is that if it is too far out, the nib tip may contact the cap when the cap is screwed on. If it's too far in, it might thrust the end of the feed into the ink chamber, which will possibly make the ink more likely to gush out when the pen begins to run out of ink. Aside from that, I'm not sure that pushing in or pulling out affects flow very much except insofar as it affects the goodness of fit. I do suppose that you will have the best chance of stopping the leak issue with the nib and feed using all of the grip section length that is available.

[pe2dave]

YMMV All the way.

 

I now have three Konrad pens, all working as I want. This worked for me, it may or may not work for you.

 

Key points.

 

Ensure that the nib is flat so that it lays flat on the feed.

 

Ensure that the tines are aligned (magnifying glass) properly.

 

Ensure that the nib and feed are free from oil, simple clean with soap

and water with a fine brush.

 

Apply silicon grease to:

The piston

The threads on the section where the piston screws in (just to make

it easier to undo)

 

Align the nib and feed so that the feed is just behind the nib, about

1mm of nib showing on the underside, outside the feed. Vary this to

increase or decrease the flex, though only by fractions.

 

Primary point. Insert the nib+feed into the section, initially such

that the end of the slit is half way under the section. Take this as a

starting point, no more.

 

Fill with water. This to keep your hands clean, no more.

 

Watch Nathans video, look for the bubbling if you have a clear part in

the section, else turn the filler (piston) to start an ink flow. The

intent is to get ink into the feed and nib. Now the fun starts. Hold

the pen upright, nib down, and watch for water dripping from the nib.

I.e. gushing.

 

You can try writing with water to see if it gushes, it is easy to wipe

up.

 

Now adjust the nib+feed 'depth' in the section, further in to reduce

flow, further out to increase flow. Then repeat the tests. Ensure that

you have water in the pen when testing and check that the feed is

central to the nib, as seen from underneath. The increments should be

as small as you can make them, ideally less than 1mm.

 

When it writes with water, and doesn't produce any blobs, perhaps try

it with ink, after emptying out the water.

Edited January 7, 2013 by pe2dave

[Agge]

I had problem that my newly bought konrad just dripped right after filling.

Even after I heat set the feed it still didn't work.

After I disassembled it I noticed that right before the ink window there were a smaller section that did not have a higher rim so I tested to align the center of the nib with that area.

 

After some testing I got it to work really good but the feed stops 5mm before the tip of the nib