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Spencerian Starter Kit


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#1 sharp21

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:35

I am working on my business hand just using regular ballpoints & gel pens but would like to start proper spencerian style as well.

What is a good starter set? I'm looking for a user friendly nib & oblique holder, as well as ink suggestion.

Thanks
S.

#2 ljkd13

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 13:46

Here is a good post regarding the oblique holders:

http://www.fountainp...ost__p__2310158

As far as nibs go, the Leondardt Principal is good, the Gillott 303, Hiro #40 (blue pumpkin) or the Brause 361.

An easy ink to start with is Higgins Eternal. I use almost exclusively Sumi Ink, though, because I like the shine it has, and right out of the bottle it is about the right consistency.

Here is where I buy all my nibs: http://www.johnnealb...d_detail_list/6

Speedball has an Oblique set of 6 (oblique holder and 5 nibs) that may be an easy, inexpensive way to start out. I would also recommend getting some paper that won't bleed and making sure you have guidelines either printed or purchased.

Good luck!

#3 terminal

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 14:12

What do you think of the spencerian mod made by John at nibs.com for Nakaya and Namiki Falcons lkjd13?
"One always looking for flaws leaves too little time for construction" ...

#4 ljkd13

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 14:20

What do you think of the spencerian mod made by John at nibs.com for Nakaya and Namiki Falcons lkjd13?


I've never used one and would love to get the opportunity to try it out. I do have a Noodler's Ahab and can get reasonably good results with it for Spencerian and Copperplate, but the angle is always a battle - in order to get it right you really need an oblique pen.

The examples on the calligraphy page look pretty decent, but you can tell the writer couldn't get quite enough angle on the letters. This is similar to my experience with the Ahab doing quick copperplate-ish: http://inkyquillscal...citing-new-pen/

I'm considering having a 14K cross nib reground as a flex nib to see if I could do simple copperplate/spencerian with it - we'll see.

Edited by ljkd13, 27 April 2012 - 14:21.


#5 Mickey

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 14:59

Michael Sull, probably the best known champion of Spencerian, recommends the Nikko G, and I agree. It is smooth, relatively stiff, but flexible enough to make generous swells - a great starter (and daily use) pen for Spencerian. The Leonardt Principal and Gillott 303 are both appropriate for OP, but are certainly not good starter nibs for Spencerian. They are even too flexible for most beginners in Copperplate. Other easily found nibs for beginners are the Gillott 404 and Hunt 56.

But I believe that since my life began

The most I've had is just a talent to abuse.

Hey ho, if love were all.

 

With apologies to Noel Coward


#6 ljkd13

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 15:03

Michael Sull, probably the best known champion of Spencerian, recommends the Nikko G, and I agree. It is smooth, relatively stiff, but flexible enough to make generous swells - a great starter (and daily use) pen for Spencerian. The Leonardt Principal and Gillott 303 are both appropriate for OP, but are certainly not good starter nibs for Spencerian. They are even too flexible for most beginners in Copperplate. Other easily found nibs for beginners are the Gillott 404 and Hunt 56.


Good point -

I do think the Blue Pumpkin is pretty forgiving for beginners, though.

#7 Mickey

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 15:06


Michael Sull, probably the best known champion of Spencerian, recommends the Nikko G, and I agree. It is smooth, relatively stiff, but flexible enough to make generous swells - a great starter (and daily use) pen for Spencerian. The Leonardt Principal and Gillott 303 are both appropriate for OP, but are certainly not good starter nibs for Spencerian. They are even too flexible for most beginners in Copperplate. Other easily found nibs for beginners are the Gillott 404 and Hunt 56.


Good point -

I do think the Blue Pumpkin is pretty forgiving for beginners, though.


Absolutely, though I prefer the Brause Steno, which I think is better made.

But I believe that since my life began

The most I've had is just a talent to abuse.

Hey ho, if love were all.

 

With apologies to Noel Coward


#8 Mickey

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 15:17

What do you think of the spencerian mod made by John at nibs.com for Nakaya and Namiki Falcons lkjd13?


The mod is almost surely fine, but learning (and writing) Spencerian with a straight pen is much more difficult than with an oblique holder.

I've learned to write Spencerian with a modified Falcon, but it requires me to rotate the page c. 90 degrees counter clockwise from the horizontal, my writing line almost at right angles to my body.

But I believe that since my life began

The most I've had is just a talent to abuse.

Hey ho, if love were all.

 

With apologies to Noel Coward


#9 teenytina

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 15:27

Ok, as someone currently using an Ahab Flex to learn Spencerian, I had to weigh in -- representing for left-handers, here.

According to my research, left handers do NOT need an oblique pen. Their natural pen hold is already at or very close to the required fifty-something degree nib angle.

Also some indispensable resources for everyone:
IAMPETH (google the name, it's distinctive enough) is a must-have site bookmark. The videos help you see how it's done.
This: http://www.amazon.co...ils_o01_s00_i01
If you don't want to invest serious money because you're just trying it out, the Ahab Flex is a lot of fun to use, and it's a great value (not just cheap -- a good value). The nib has flexibility, but it's also usable as a monoline pen if you don't want the shading. I LOVE my ahab. Just ordered a second one.

Tina

Edited by teenytina, 27 April 2012 - 15:28.

----
Oh, pens, all of you are my favorite! TWSBI, Jinhao, Montblanc, Waterman, Danish Penol De Luxe flexy pen, Cross, -- I can't choose between you! That would just be wrong.
---

#10 sharp21

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 17:04

Ok, as someone currently using an Ahab Flex to learn Spencerian, I had to weigh in -- representing for left-handers, here.

According to my research, left handers do NOT need an oblique pen. Their natural pen hold is already at or very close to the required fifty-something degree nib angle.

Also some indispensable resources for everyone:
IAMPETH (google the name, it's distinctive enough) is a must-have site bookmark. The videos help you see how it's done.
This: http://www.amazon.co...ils_o01_s00_i01
If you don't want to invest serious money because you're just trying it out, the Ahab Flex is a lot of fun to use, and it's a great value (not just cheap -- a good value). The nib has flexibility, but it's also usable as a monoline pen if you don't want the shading. I LOVE my ahab. Just ordered a second one.

Tina



I've actually ordered that set of books the other day. Should arrive soon! I'm going to head down to the local art store to see if they carry any of the pens mentioned.

Does anybody here use a modified/adapted tripod grip?

S.

#11 Mickey

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 17:34

I've actually ordered that set of books the other day. Should arrive soon! I'm going to head down to the local art store to see if they carry any of the pens mentioned.

Does anybody here use a modified/adapted tripod grip?

S.


I think you may have been mislead by the notion that the "tripod grip" is a single configuration. It is simply a mode of gripping with the first 2 fingers and thumb that allows one to hold the pen or holder securely with minimal pressure. The so-called modified or fore-finger over tripod is nothing more than the tripod with the palm rotated slightly counter clockwise. (With larger sections, it appears more different than it really is.) There are situations where a bit of rotation is useful. For example, I rotate with flexible FPs, but not with nails and not with oblique holders. The only reason I rotate at all is because it makes it easier for me to align the shaded pull strokes with the slant line and because FP nibs tend to be less flexible (the added leverage works to my advantage). My advice would be to learn the grip in the conventional rotation first, then experiment.

Edited by Mickey, 27 April 2012 - 21:51.

But I believe that since my life began

The most I've had is just a talent to abuse.

Hey ho, if love were all.

 

With apologies to Noel Coward


#12 Ink Sandwich

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 21:20

I can also recommend the Brause No.65, if you can get it:

Posted Image

It draws a very fine line and is quite stiff, but also pretty forgiving.

#13 wallylynn

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 23:43

Michael Sull, probably the best known champion of Spencerian,

Michael Sull sells a full kit: copybooks, holder, nibs, ink...
http://spencerian.com/

#14 Mickey

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:07


Michael Sull, probably the best known champion of Spencerian,

Michael Sull sells a full kit: copybooks, holder, nibs, ink...
http://spencerian.com/


The holder I bought from him is my favorite and currently my in-office daily writer. (FPs are for carrying.) I've also purchased practice materials and ink from him. I real gent.

But I believe that since my life began

The most I've had is just a talent to abuse.

Hey ho, if love were all.

 

With apologies to Noel Coward


#15 xxloverxx

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:34

I found the 303's downstrokes to resemble a brush and the upstrokes a needle…the 404's much better, but my favourite's still the Nikko G.

I don't write Spencerian (I barely make "legible"), nor do I use an oblique holder.

Quink's nice. And washable. And quite cheap.

#16 tdzb36

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:59

About pen nibs ,I like Gillott 404 and hiro 40 to practice business style!

#17 andybiotic

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:43

For Spencerian, I think the Nikko G or Zebra G nibs are better than the more flexible 303 or 404 because it snaps close / responds better and and you need that in the shaded strokes of Spencerian. The 303 or 404 is a bit harder to control at the very brief flexings in Spencerian. Just my 2 cents...

Edited by andybiotic, 30 April 2012 - 07:45.

Posted Image