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Naginata Togi Nm Nib


daoud62

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"I have to admit that for $1,300, I expected much more. I have contacted the dealer and they will exchange the nib for an NMF or for any other specialty nib (I have considered the Concorde Point, but I am reluctant to do so without trying it beforehand) or allow me to apply the purchase price towards a different pen. I am in a dilemma because I don't know what to do. On the one hand, I love the idea of this pen. On the other hand, this is not a museum piece, and writing with this Naginata Togi nib is not giving me any pleasure. Furthermore, the pen is extremely large, even for someone like me who has huge hands, and it is not a pen I can take along with me anywhere. I have had my eyes on the Nakaya Blue Dragon in the long version embarrassed_smile.gif"

 

Sorry to resurrect this old topic but I am interested in what you did in the end. Did you swap for the NMF and if so was that successful or did you give up on the Sailor and/or the Naginata Togi nib entirely?

 

I traded the pen for a Nakaya Blue Dragon. However, when I was in Tokyo, I found a Susutake with the gold plate (i.e., made by Nobuyoshi Nagahara himself before retirement), and it had an NMF nib. I have not had any problems with it. However, I also stopped using Rhodia or Clairefontaine paper; now I use Tomoe River. No skipping, no problems. I love the pen.

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I have the same issue with the nib being entirely too wide. I have the fine nib. Has anyone had experience with a nibmeister changing these into a true fine without nasty side effects?

The only nibmeisters I would trust with a Sustake are Mike Masuyama and Yukio Nagahara. I also strongly suggest that you try changing paper; that may be the problem. With the right paper, there is absolutely no skipping with a Susutake.

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I'm not the OP, but I did swap an NM for NMF several years ago. The NM was just too broad for me. I love the NMF, but it does take a little practice to get the most out of it. It's especially useful if you feel comfortable switching between more vertical and more horizontal pen holds or if you can learn the trick described in another thread by FPN member pixwriter.

 

Another issue for the OP is the Susutake pen design. This seems like a clumsy writing instrument and may be designed just as an expensive showpiece or gift item.

I thought, too, that it was a clumsy design at the beginning, in the same way that I thought my Joe Cali pens were clumsy. However, with the right paper, right ink, right attitude, everything turns out all right. I like to remember when writing with mine that the material is at least 150 years old, and that it was hand-selected by Nobuyoshi Nagahara, probably the greatest nibmeister ever.

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I thought, too, that it was a clumsy design at the beginning, in the same way that I thought my Joe Cali pens were clumsy. However, with the right paper, right ink, right attitude, everything turns out all right. I like to remember when writing with mine that the material is at least 150 years old, and that it was hand-selected by Nobuyoshi Nagahara, probably the greatest nibmeister ever.

If you have Cali's then I trust your judgement....

the Danitrio Fellowship

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I traded the pen for a Nakaya Blue Dragon. However, when I was in Tokyo, I found a Susutake with the gold plate (i.e., made by Nobuyoshi Nagahara himself before retirement), and it had an NMF nib. I have not had any problems with it. However, I also stopped using Rhodia or Clairefontaine paper; now I use Tomoe River. No skipping, no problems. I love the pen.

Thanks. I try and only use Tomoe River paper anyway [and think Rhodia much overrated]... when I've saved up for this I guess I will get to see for myself. I must admit the Nakaya Blue Dragon [if it is the same one I am thinking of Seiryu Blue Dragon?] is the one pen I have seen that could appeal as much as a urushi KOP

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daoud62, glad to hear that you enjoy the Susutake. I was intrigued with it for a while but couldn't really see myself spending that much money for a thing I might not enjoy actually using.

 

Doug C and lgreen, I use my NMF (in a boring old 1911) with Clairefontaine and Rhodia paper all the time. IMO, nibs should not skip, regardless of the ink and paper used. If a pen skips, I usually adjust it myself or send it to a repair expert.

 

I think you could have an expert like Michael Masuyama grind the NMF down to something finer, as long as you make clear that you want it to retain the Naginata-togi characteristics. Alternatively, you could just get used to holding the pen at a steeper angle.

 

I had Richard Binder regrind my Nagahara Concord nib to make it write a finer line.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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daoud62, glad to hear that you enjoy the Susutake. I was intrigued with it for a while but couldn't really see myself spending that much money for a thing I might not enjoy actually using.

 

Doug C and lgreen, I use my NMF (in a boring old 1911) with Clairefontaine and Rhodia paper all the time. IMO, nibs should not skip, regardless of the ink and paper used. If a pen skips, I usually adjust it myself or send it to a repair expert.

 

I think you could have an expert like Michael Masuyama grind the NMF down to something finer, as long as you make clear that you want it to retain the Naginata-togi characteristics. Alternatively, you could just get used to holding the pen at a steeper angle.

 

I had Richard Binder regrind my Nagahara Concord nib to make it write a finer line.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I love the feel of the nib. It is very smooth, doesnt skip and writes like a dream. It is just that it is so thick that it will not work for my handwriting. I just wanted to make sure that there were meisters that would know how to handle this particular nib and not turn it into a regular nib.

the Danitrio Fellowship

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Thanks for the suggestions. I love the feel of the nib. It is very smooth, doesnt skip and writes like a dream. It is just that it is so thick that it will not work for my handwriting. I just wanted to make sure that there were meisters that would know how to handle this particular nib and not turn it into a regular nib.

 

Get Mike Masuyama to work on your nib for you. He just ground my Cross Townsend BB nib into a Naginata-Togi M nib at the SF Pen Show. The BB nib was a big bland blob of tipping, and the sweet spot was not great. Now it writes with zero pressure and provides an exciting line for writing Tang Dynasty poems.

Edited by shuuemura
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Get Mike Masuyama to work on your nib for you. He just ground my Cross Townsend BB nib into a Naginata-Togi M nib at the SF Pen Show. The BB nib was a big bland bob of tipping, and the sweet spot was not great. Now it writes with zero pressure and provides an exciting line for writing Tang Dynasty poems.

Great to know. I have several of his nibs on my FC's and they are really great, especially considering they were not custom ground for me.

I will send it to him...

the Danitrio Fellowship

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Get Mike Masuyama to work on your nib for you. He just ground my Cross Townsend BB nib into a Naginata-Togi M nib at the SF Pen Show. The BB nib was a big bland blob of tipping, and the sweet spot was not great. Now it writes with zero pressure and provides an exciting line for writing Tang Dynasty poems.

 

Could you post writing samples of Tang dynasty poems with the NT? I'd love to see them. I have several scrolls of Tang poems on my walls (brush calligraphy, not written with a pen).

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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My handwriting is really bad, I shall not disgrace myself by showing it. Instead, I shall show some before and after photos of the nib.

 

Before:

13579562473_e06bd6897c_c.jpg

 

After:

14882326470_6b4001d189_c.jpg

 

Before:

13579883864_1d7047621a_c.jpg

 

After:

14882421727_d1e5e7352a_c.jpg

 

Before:

13579562293_092ab014be_c.jpg

 

After:

15065951741_f9c0f9386c_c.jpg

 

Before:

13595111583_75f330da2d_c.jpg

 

After:

14882421687_9c9fb43088_c.jpg

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Thanks for the pictures. Mike did a great job with the nib. I understand your reticence to show handwriting samples. Producing beautiful Asian calligraphy is definitely not a trivial matterl!

Edited by Dr.Grace

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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My writing isn't so great either, but here are samples to illustrate that the NT-MF and Nagahara Concord nibs write very differently. (I asked Richard Binder to grind the Concord nib to a finer line, similar to his "Condor" nib). I prefer to use the NT for English and the Concord for Chinese. You can see that the Concord mimics brushstrokes much better than the NT. The Concord can make "orchid" strokes (e.g. the right-most stroke for the character "ren2" = person) and "nailhead" strokes, e.g. the vertical strokes at the right.) It also makes passable "bone" strokes, e.g. the horizontal lines.

 

post-1741-0-80972800-1409335473.jpg

 

post-1741-0-27249000-1409335507_thumb.jpg

 

 

<script src="safari-extension://com.ebay.safari.myebaymanager-QYHMMGCMJR/97047037/background/helpers/prefilterHelper.js" type="text/javascript"> </script>

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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Thanks so much Dr Grace!

 

Every illustration of how the N-MF writes is a great help in building my confidence to get one... your example of the Concord is very fine but my lacking either the skill to write chinese or japanese or indeed the skill to do pen drawings I can't imagine when I would use it

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You can use the Concord for writing English. It produces an unusual effect in which the strokes taper off at the bottom. You may or may not like it. I do think the NT is more usable for everyday English writing than the Concord.

These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value.--Thomas Paine, "The American Crisis", 1776

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  • 1 month later...

I have a Sailor Sapporo with a MF nib that has been my daily driver for writing/note taking at work. I recently ordered a 1911M Bespoke in Burgandy with Rhodium trim and the Naginata-Togi nib in MF. At first I honestly didn't think I was going to like it. It was so much broader than the standard MF and I didn't care for how it made my handwriting look.

 

However, as I spent some time with it, things improved. Then I bought my first set of really nice FP friendly stationary and noticed that writing with the standard MF nib on paper with a bit of feedback wasn't as pleasant and I didn't care for the results. I tried the Naginata-Togi and it really came alive. If I use gentle pressure and just let my cursive handwriting flow I am very pleased with the results.

 

I've been carrying the Togi for every day carry at work for the past 3 weeks or so and love it. However, anything broader than the MF, to me, would be far too broad....unless you're looking for that kind of stroke. YMMV.

I enjoy MB 146 pens, Sailor, Pilot and Platinum pens as well. I have a strong attraction to dark red and muted green ink, colors I dislike for everything but FP ink. I also enjoy practicing my handwriting and attempting to improve it. I love the feel of quality paper under a gold nib.

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I have the same issue with the nib being entirely too wide. I have the fine nib. Has anyone had experience with a nibmeister changing these into a true fine without nasty side effects?

I got the Susutake with a fine nib as I knew that I did not want to go through the shifting about with the Naginatatogi.

Glad I did.

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