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Oh. That Might Have Been A Bit Too Warm.


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#1 subbes

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 22:21

I am now the incredibly non-proud owner of the deformed barrel of what once was an Estie desk pen, because I got called away while they were warming (in preparation to pull the section and re-sac it).


:headsmack:

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


Every day is a learning experience.


(I SHALL KEEP IT IN ORDER TO SCARE ANY NONPERFORMING ESTIES.)

Edited by subbes, 11 January 2012 - 23:03.

"Perdita thought, to take an example at random, that things like table manners were a stupid and repressive idea. Agnes, on the other hand, was against being hit by flying bits of other people's cabbage." (Pratchett, T. Carpe Jugulum.)

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#2 dgturner

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 22:26

Please post pics!!!!!!!!

I am afraid to apply heat for fear of either warping a pen, or worse setting it on fire... Posted Image

-- Avatar Courtesy of Brian Goulet of Goulet Pens (thank you for allowing people to use the logo Brian!) --

#3 subbes

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 22:54

This was my first time trying a different heating method - usually I use a warm water soak - and a good reminder that I cannot allow myself to be distracted. Terrible camera phone picture attached. Hopefully you can see what happened - the section got soft, and the J-bar pressure deformed the barrel. I suppose I could try to heat it back up and reshape it, but I doubt it would work properly.

Silver linings:
  • it was $3
  • the seller was a heavy smoker and the pen stunk of stale tobacco smoke
  • now I have a spare section and tail

So of all the pens I could have made this mistake with, better this (or the Wearever).

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Edited by subbes, 11 January 2012 - 22:55.

"Perdita thought, to take an example at random, that things like table manners were a stupid and repressive idea. Agnes, on the other hand, was against being hit by flying bits of other people's cabbage." (Pratchett, T. Carpe Jugulum.)

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#4 PaFitch

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:12

Oh, that's sad. But it does have an up side. The red taper is nice and Estie desk pens are easy to come by, so you can make a new one. A good j bar is useful too. Not all is lost.

#5 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:16

Searching this forum would have found evidence that you aren't the first to explore alternative heating methods to separate a section.

Sometimes it just doesn't pay to try and reinvent the wheel.

For best results the temp of the section should rise pretty quickly and the heat source should be aimable to a small area.

It really is hard to do that better than with a heat gun or (2nd choice) a hair dryer.

Obviously distraction has no place in any process requiring any level of skill and attention to detail.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

#6 mark e

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:59

I am now the incredibly non-proud owner of the deformed barrel of what once was an Estie desk pen, because I got called away while they were warming (in preparation to pull the section and re-sac it).


:headsmack:

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


Every day is a learning experience.


(I SHALL KEEP IT IN ORDER TO SCARE ANY NONPERFORMING ESTIES.)


uhhhh...what....did you have it in a toaster?---microwave?---now you're makin me nervous about using heat

#7 estie1948

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:06

Very sorry for the loss of your pen. That is horribly sad. I have found that heat is rarely needed in this process with Esterbrooks. I use a good pair of section pliers on the stubborn ones. Then, maybe I have just been very lucky. Again, I am sorry for this horrible accident. Good luck in the future.
No matter how much you push the envelope, it will still be stationery. -Anon.
A backward poet writes inverse. -Anon.

#8 Tom Heath

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 14:29

You may have learned a very valuable lesson here.

When doing repairs do not leve things un attended. Getting distracted is quite easy to do . You may have done a repair operation 1,000 times and you get distracted , leave the pen along while
soaking or heating and you return to find the pen is distored or dis colored most times with irreversable consequences.

Good luck with your future repairs
Tom

We repair men have all done this sometimes on an important project.... egads I had to think about it. But that is way the parts drawer grows !

#9 subbes

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 15:19

For the curious: I was using a heating pad on one of my RSI-afflicted arms and the Stupid Idea Fairy visited (she dresses very similarly to the Bright Idea Fairy, but visits more often). I've never used section pliers because I fear cracking a section or barrel; maybe it's time.


Obviously distraction has no place in any process requiring any level of skill and attention to detail


And this is why, as my grandmother reminds me, I shall never accomplish anything.

(I'LL SHOW HER. THEY MAKE MEDICATION FOR MY PROBLEM NOW.)

"Perdita thought, to take an example at random, that things like table manners were a stupid and repressive idea. Agnes, on the other hand, was against being hit by flying bits of other people's cabbage." (Pratchett, T. Carpe Jugulum.)

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#10 pjsmithe

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 16:01

Wow, how hot does that heating pad get? As imple heating pad produced enough heat to warp the plastic? :confused emoticon:

#11 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 17:16

Very sorry for the loss of your pen. That is horribly sad. I have found that heat is rarely needed in this process with Esterbrooks. I use a good pair of section pliers on the stubborn ones. Then, maybe I have just been very lucky. Again, I am sorry for this horrible accident. Good luck in the future.


Just because one hasn't openly cracked for you yet doesn't mean you haven't (unnecessarily) stressed the plastic in the thread area that may cause it to crack later on (pulling the section to realign the nib?) when it might not if not stressed before.

You also may not have done many Transitionals which for me and others are more prone to crack than the double jewels.

Using heat to both pull and reinsert the section is just good, cheap, insurance. With Esties, there's just no real, good reason NOT to use it and plenty of good ones TO use it.

Most everyone already has access to a hair dryer which works fine and in the U.S. the craft embossing heat guns that many of the pros use are readily available for about $20.

If you insist on not using heat to pull Esties sections, it's more a matter of WHEN you'll crack one, not if. And of course, when that time DOES come and you hear that sickening CRACK, it's likely to be on a pen you REALLY didn't want to hear it on rather than some oogly junker... :crybaby:

Bruce in Ocala, FL-it's not like we say this because we're getting kick backs from the heat gun makers... :rolleyes:

#12 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 17:27

Obviously distraction has no place in any process requiring any level of skill and attention to detail


***And this is why, as my grandmother reminds me, I shall never accomplish anything.***

(I'LL SHOW HER. THEY MAKE MEDICATION FOR MY PROBLEM NOW.)


Hey, not all of us can be Ron Zorn, Richard Binder or Farmboy.

I have the mechanical aptitude of a small appliance bulb. The one redeeming mechanical "skill" I have is to (usually) know when, if I do One More Thing, I'll wreck it beyond all repair. (Actually, not That Bad of a one skill to have.) Still, if you had told me 5 years ago that I would be restoring Esties, I would have said you were insane.

<Inspector Callahan> A man has to know his limitations. </Inspector Callahan> And, I do know mine. Still, there ARE ways to widen your abilities and decrease those limitations. Studying everything you can find about how to do the procedure you're going to attempt, not working on pens when you are tired or frustrated and putting the job down for the time being if you get that way help alot there.

When advice like use heat or just real genuine plain talc is given out here it's usually because the giver outter has already had to learn the same lesson the hard, painful way and doesn't want YOU to have to do that too. The very best life's lessons are the very most painful ones that you get to learn at the expense of SOMEONE ELSE making them instead of you.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

#13 subbes

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 18:59

mistakesdemotivator.jpg



I'm amazed by the PMs I've received about this - big thanks to both PenFisher and Brian Anderson for their kind offers of replacement barrels. :)

"Perdita thought, to take an example at random, that things like table manners were a stupid and repressive idea. Agnes, on the other hand, was against being hit by flying bits of other people's cabbage." (Pratchett, T. Carpe Jugulum.)

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#14 kathleen

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 19:44

I have only ever cracked one, a beautiful little blue SJ, I felt sick in the instant that I heard it snap and there is no going back. I have since heeded the advice to slightly warm the area. I use a hair dryer, when my fingers begin to feel warm, that is warm enough. I have the section wrapped with a rubber band (no need for section pliers, the rubberband gives me a sure grip) and I wiggle, wiggle the section and barrel apart, ever so gently, sometimes re-warming the area. Patience is imperative and a prayer never hurts.
My Estie Clinic has seen 40+ patients, and I am pleased to report one little blue SJ has been my only fatality. I comfort myself in the knowledge that its parts may be donated to another and thus restore another wonderful Esterbrook pen.


Here is a different blue SJ wrapped just prior to being warmed for a barrel/section separation procedure.


Posted Image

Edited by kathleen, 12 January 2012 - 19:51.

"Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars" ~Henry Van Dyke

Trying to rescue and restore all the beautiful Esties to their purpose.

#15 pen2paper

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 20:10

deep heavy sigh..
it's why I haven't tried to resac yet.
Just know my tinkering instinct will love it, but have to actually take the risk 1st.
Posted Imagemaybe we should schedule a re-sac-along, in real time..?

Posted Image~Hi! fountain pen enthusiast here~

#16 tmenyc

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 22:11

I have its matching section! I didn't overheat it, but I did forget to have a nib/feed in it when I squeezed too hard...

Tim

Current Rotation:

home: MontBlanc 149/Parker perm Blue-Black (vintage)

pen case: Inoxcrom 55/Aurora blue; Parker 51 2d test/Waterman Cocktail

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office:  Wality 69L/Diamine Indigo, Delta Fusion 82/Diamine Deep Dark Blue


#17 kathleen

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 22:44

I have its matching section! I didn't overheat it, but I did forget to have a nib/feed in it when I squeezed too hard...

Tim


Tim, my little blue SJ cracked through the threads at the top of the barrel. Are you saying you need an SJ section? Did you crack the black section that holds the nib&feed?
If that is what you need, I will send you my SJ section, then we could hope it is a good fit to your barrel.
PM me.
Kathleen

Pen2paper, I just know you could bring a few of the wonderful Esties back to service if you like to tinker. There is not that much required if you are just replacing sacs and J bars and cleaning them up. It really is very satisfying to restore one of these beautiful writing instruments. Now there are others here with abilities far beyond mine; I have not replaced jewels, clips, levers or pulled cap liners. I read their posts that detail such procedures with keen interest, I hope to learn more and perhaps someday I will be brave enough to expand my skills.
"Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars" ~Henry Van Dyke

Trying to rescue and restore all the beautiful Esties to their purpose.

#18 kathleen

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 22:44

I have its matching section! I didn't overheat it, but I did forget to have a nib/feed in it when I squeezed too hard...

Tim


Tim, my little blue SJ cracked through the threads at the top of the barrel. Are you saying you need an SJ section? Did you crack the black section that holds the nib&feed?
If that is what you need, I will send you my SJ section, then we could hope it is a good fit to your barrel.
PM me.
Kathleen

Pen2paper, I just know you could bring a few of the wonderful Esties back to service if you like to tinker. There is not that much required if you are just replacing sacs and J bars and cleaning them up. It really is very satisfying to restore one of these beautiful writing instruments. Now there are others here with abilities far beyond mine; I have not replaced jewels, clips, levers or pulled cap liners. I read their posts that detail such procedures with keen interest, I hope to learn more and perhaps someday I will be brave enough to expand my skills.
"Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars" ~Henry Van Dyke

Trying to rescue and restore all the beautiful Esties to their purpose.

#19 kathleen

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 22:44

I have its matching section! I didn't overheat it, but I did forget to have a nib/feed in it when I squeezed too hard...

Tim


Tim, my little blue SJ cracked through the threads at the top of the barrel. Are you saying you need an SJ section? Did you crack the black section that holds the nib&feed?
If that is what you need, I will send you my SJ section, then we could hope it is a good fit to your barrel.
PM me.
Kathleen

Pen2paper, I just know you could bring a few of the wonderful Esties back to service if you like to tinker. There is not that much required if you are just replacing sacs and J bars and cleaning them up. It really is very satisfying to restore one of these beautiful writing instruments. Now there are others here with abilities far beyond mine; I have not replaced jewels, clips, levers or pulled cap liners. I read their posts that detail such procedures with keen interest, I hope to learn more and perhaps someday I will be brave enough to expand my skills.
"Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars" ~Henry Van Dyke

Trying to rescue and restore all the beautiful Esties to their purpose.

#20 kathleen

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 22:44

I have its matching section! I didn't overheat it, but I did forget to have a nib/feed in it when I squeezed too hard...

Tim


Tim, my little blue SJ cracked through the threads at the top of the barrel. Are you saying you need an SJ section? Did you crack the black section that holds the nib&feed?
If that is what you need, I will send you my SJ section, then we could hope it is a good fit to your barrel.
PM me.
Kathleen

Pen2paper, I just know you could bring a few of the wonderful Esties back to service if you like to tinker. There is not that much required if you are just replacing sacs and J bars and cleaning them up. It really is very satisfying to restore one of these beautiful writing instruments. Now there are others here with abilities far beyond mine; I have not replaced jewels, clips, levers or pulled cap liners. I read their posts that detail such procedures with keen interest, I hope to learn more and perhaps someday I will be brave enough to expand my skills.
"Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars" ~Henry Van Dyke

Trying to rescue and restore all the beautiful Esties to their purpose.

#21 kathleen

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 22:44

I have its matching section! I didn't overheat it, but I did forget to have a nib/feed in it when I squeezed too hard...

Tim


Tim, my little blue SJ cracked through the threads at the top of the barrel. Are you saying you need an SJ section? Did you crack the black section that holds the nib&feed?
If that is what you need, I will send you my SJ section, then we could hope it is a good fit to your barrel.
PM me.
Kathleen

Pen2paper, I just know you could bring a few of the wonderful Esties back to service if you like to tinker. There is not that much required if you are just replacing sacs and J bars and cleaning them up. It really is very satisfying to restore one of these beautiful writing instruments. Now there are others here with abilities far beyond mine; I have not replaced jewels, clips, levers or pulled cap liners. I read their posts that detail such procedures with keen interest, I hope to learn more and perhaps someday I will be brave enough to expand my skills.
"Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars" ~Henry Van Dyke

Trying to rescue and restore all the beautiful Esties to their purpose.

#22 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 23:21

P2P, If **I** can resac and restore an Estie, ANYBODY who still has the use of both their thumbs and maybe 3/4's of their fingers can.


I've even broken a hammer [1] and I can usually manage a successful restore. ;)

[1] Gimme a break, I was about 8 and wondered, "hey, if I whack this nail puller part of this hammer on the sidwalk, can I break it." [2]
[2] The answer is a resounding yes.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

#23 pajaro

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 02:49

I am now the incredibly non-proud owner of the deformed barrel of what once was an Estie desk pen, because I got called away while they were warming (in preparation to pull the section and re-sac it).


:headsmack:

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


Every day is a learning experience.


(I SHALL KEEP IT IN ORDER TO SCARE ANY NONPERFORMING ESTIES.)


If it makes you feel any better, using a new heat gun to remove the hood of a Parker 51, my wife wanted my immediate attention. I now have a Parker 51 with a shrink-wrapped collector. As for those who say "Tut, tut . . ." about distractions, YOU disregard YOUR wife, and see how that works out for you.

Heat, by the way, doesn't seem to be causing this P51 hood to fall back into shape, The pen still writes, though, and fills just fine.
"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.

#24 pen2paper

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:14

I needed this thread~ Posted Image
Kathleen, dear FPNer and teacher.. I Do know "repetition is the mother of retention"
in short order, I will find the necessary gizmo's to resac my own esties - honest!

Bruce, I love ya.. (in the appropriate pen buddy way), thank for your humble push.

pjaro, "Tut-tut" Someone has been Forced to watch Dr Phil one too many times lol Posted Image
aww and a '51 too Posted Image

belly laugh humor, + folks sharing their post campfire pen parts.. I love FPNPosted Image

Posted Image~Hi! fountain pen enthusiast here~

#25 kathleen

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:27

P2P, If **I** can resac and restore an Estie, ANYBODY who still has the use of both their thumbs and maybe 3/4's of their fingers can.

Bruce in Ocala, FL


Chris, Pen2paper, this is the exact same encouragement Bruce gave me. I finally overcame my fear, and believe me I was fearful. The first Estie I ever pulled apart and re-sacced was my late father's Black J. I think some divine intervention allowed me to succeed, I would have been horribly depressed had I broken that pen, it is still my most treasured. Once Daddy's pen was restored I was eager to get my hands on another patient.
I think Bruce and I should insist that you become an active member. Join the EPRP (Esterbrook Pen Repair Practioners). I will not be happy until you join us, there are just too many Esties out there still needing help. We need more hands.

A favorite photo of my father and I, taken my freshman year of college, 1969, and with the photo my father's Esterbrook J, fully restored, filled with ink and memories.

Posted Image

Edited by kathleen, 13 January 2012 - 05:32.

"Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars" ~Henry Van Dyke

Trying to rescue and restore all the beautiful Esties to their purpose.

#26 estie1948

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:13


Very sorry for the loss of your pen. That is horribly sad. I have found that heat is rarely needed in this process with Esterbrooks. I use a good pair of section pliers on the stubborn ones. Then, maybe I have just been very lucky. Again, I am sorry for this horrible accident. Good luck in the future.


Just because one hasn't openly cracked for you yet doesn't mean you haven't (unnecessarily) stressed the plastic in the thread area that may cause it to crack later on (pulling the section to realign the nib?) when it might not if not stressed before.

You also may not have done many Transitionals which for me and others are more prone to crack than the double jewels.

Using heat to both pull and reinsert the section is just good, cheap, insurance. With Esties, there's just no real, good reason NOT to use it and plenty of good ones TO use it.

Most everyone already has access to a hair dryer which works fine and in the U.S. the craft embossing heat guns that many of the pros use are readily available for about $20.

If you insist on not using heat to pull Esties sections, it's more a matter of WHEN you'll crack one, not if. And of course, when that time DOES come and you hear that sickening CRACK, it's likely to be on a pen you REALLY didn't want to hear it on rather than some oogly junker... :crybaby:

Bruce in Ocala, FL-it's not like we say this because we're getting kick backs from the heat gun makers... :rolleyes:

Okay. I have been officially reprimanded by Bruce. So I have been officially warned as has everybody else that section pliers, no matter how judicially used, will cause cracked sections or barrels eventually if not immediately. While I have been doing it since the mid-1990s without a break or crack yet, I now understand that I am doomed and it is just a matter of time until the break or crack will definitely happen - perhaps even in mid-sentence. If I had only known that repeated heating and cooling of the section/barrel connection would not cause it any stress as the gentle twisting back and forth with the villainous section plies cannot help but do. I now stand corrected.

But you see, I was taught how to replace sacks in Esterbrooks by the man who gave me my first fountain pen (an Esterbrook J): the late, and in my opinion, great GROSS. He died not long ago in his mid-to-late 90s and had been using and repairing fountain pens since the 1940s. Alas, he had did not have the benefit of your experience and advice, for he cautioned that the use of heat was a last resort. Poor, ignorant, old GROSS, had he only known. He was a member here and was the one who told me I should join so I would learn. Too bad he didn't learn while he was here.

It grieves me greatly that I shall be denied membership in the EPRP with you, Kathleen, and Pen2Paper. Still, I thank you for setting me straight. I promise the members of this forum and of EPRP that I will never again advise anyone to use section pliers and, that if I should use them myself (that is, "If you insist on not using heat to pull Esties sections"), I will do so secretly and under cover of darkness.

Again, let me thank you for kindly pointing out the error of my ways. For you did so in the true spirit of this Fountain Pen Network of not belittling me or of making me feel stupid.
No matter how much you push the envelope, it will still be stationery. -Anon.
A backward poet writes inverse. -Anon.

#27 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:20

The truthiness of your last sentence flies in the face of the torrent of sarcasm pouring from the remainder of your post.

No reprimand official or otherwise was meant. I'm sorry you took it that way.

It is I who should thank you for the education here.

You are the first person who's made it clear to me that they have absolutely no need whatsoever of any further knowledge or new ideas re; Esterbrook repair. I appreciate you saving me any future wasted time and effort attempting to offer help when none is needed much less appreciated.

Sorry. My bad. I'll be sure and not reply thusly to another post of yours.

PS; Re; your section plier rant. For the record, you've never heard me type not to use them... Normally, I'd finish what what I DO think about them, but, obviously, there's no need here for that. :rolleyes:

Bruce in Ocala, FL

#28 pen2paper

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 02:48

Dear Ones. Plan A, Plan B, aka my personal motto, direct theft from Mr. Mom: "220, 221 whatever works"... let's meet in the middle, Posted Image tea, coffee, hot, or cold, I'm buying! Posted Image

Kathleen, the photo : . ) deeply touched that you shared this.

PS, I'm leaning towards the rubberband method, only because I have one of those already : D
Sincere thanks to All Posted Image

Edited by pen2paper, 15 January 2012 - 14:00.


Posted Image~Hi! fountain pen enthusiast here~

#29 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 03:37

P2P, I usually grip the section with a piece of bicycle inner tube. It's the thinner of car, motorcycle and bike tubes. Still, about the same as the band. I have section pliers but I can *feel* things better with my fingers. I do use my section pliers to grip a Parker Aero filler with to take off and put on the hood.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

Edited by OcalaFlGuy, 15 January 2012 - 03:39.


#30 pajaro

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 04:42

I needed this thread~ Posted Image
Kathleen, dear FPNer and teacher.. I Do know "repetition is the mother of retention"
in short order, I will find the necessary gizmo's to resac my own esties - honest!

Bruce, I love ya.. (in the appropriate pen buddy way), thank for your humble push.

pjaro, "Tut-tut" Someone has been Forced to watch Dr Phil one too many times lol Posted Image
aww and a '51 too Posted Image

belly laugh humor, + folks sharing their post campfire pen parts.. I love FPNPosted Image

Humor is always good. Laughing is true pleasure. I have done any number of foolish things with pens and other things. If they make anyone laugh, so much the better. Spread the joy and laughter.
"Don't hurry, don't worry. It's better to be late at the Golden Gate than to arrive in Hell on time."
--Sign in a bar and grill, Ormond Beach, Florida, 1960.