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#61 pmhudepo

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 06:57

I have been busy copying text from Leo Babauta's excellent zenhabits.net website. It actually took me longer than I expected and my writing wasn't always as relaxed as I wanted it to be. Still working on trying to find a balance between speed, good flow and nice letter forms. Focusing on a good grip and good posture while writing.

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Here's a closer view:

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The guide sheet is Achim's. I will try GhostShip Blue's sheet during the weekend.

Edited by pmhudepo, 27 August 2011 - 07:02.

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#62 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 19:36

I see that slant is not always being followed. I guess that for normal writing one does not have to follow some standard slant angle. Many, like me, write more upright. That may be OK for normal writing. However, while practicing we can attempt to follow a consistent slant angle throughout. May require a bit slower writing though.

#63 pmhudepo

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 20:25

I see that slant is not always being followed. I guess that for normal writing one does not have to follow some standard slant angle. Many, like me, write more upright. That may be OK for normal writing. However, while practicing we can attempt to follow a consistent slant angle throughout. May require a bit slower writing though.


Good observation! Slant and consistency are two things I need to work on. If I go slow, I succeed reasonably well although my writing soon gets cramped. If I speed up a little, I quickly lose accuracy.

GhostShip Blue's guidesheet has a more upright angle. Maybe that will suit me better and I suppose there is one way to find out.

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#64 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 20:57

Here is a suggestion: Write a page in your normal speed hand writing on a ruled page without guide lines. Then try to find out average slant angle you maintain. If you feel comfortable with that, use a graphics program like coreldraw to make your own guide sheet. This way you can practice x height closer to your natural x height and a slant angle of your choice. Then practice to maintain both.

And a suggestion is no good if I myself do not try. Time for some self analysis.

Ihtzaz

#65 pmhudepo

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 20:07

Ihtzaz, thank you for the suggestion. I shall give it a try.

Here is a sample of my handwriting of about a year ago. It wasn't so much handwriting practice in the sense that I would practise letter forms, slant, spacing etc., but rather sitting down and writing (in this case copying) some text. I had this vague idea that I wanted to improve my writing, but no clear goals or method of achieving it. That was okay, I still enjoyed the writing process, using my fountain pens.

So this is my "nice handwriting" from last year:

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I guess my natural slant is no slant. While I still do not strive for any particular script, I would like my writing to be more elegant, flowing, consistent. Adding a slant, working on nice ascenders and descenders and using a few flourishes will help with that, I believe.

Edited by pmhudepo, 28 August 2011 - 20:10.

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#66 pmhudepo

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 20:09

I've also tried GhostShip Blue's guide sheet. I felt a little lost at first because of the large x-height, but the slant is more comfortable. I shall definitely complete a few more pages. (And take a close look at his writing samples.)


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#67 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 15:22

I've also tried GhostShip Blue's guide sheet. I felt a little lost at first because of the large x-height, but the slant is more comfortable. I shall definitely complete a few more pages. (And take a close look at his writing samples.)


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What nib size are you using? F or M?

#68 pmhudepo

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 15:25

What nib size are you using? F or M?


OB, but I suspect it needs a little work and right now appears to behave more like an OM -- as far as I can judge these things. It's an older nib from 1955.

Edit: well, sometimes it does. My scribbly notes at work show more of a broad line like I'd expect.

Edited by pmhudepo, 29 August 2011 - 15:32.

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#69 TheOriginalStevenH

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 22:21

Here is my writing sample. I've been strugleing to produce neat and organized handwriting for a few months now. I was hoping that to some degree that the fountain pen would "magically" transpose my writing to something legible, and some days are better then others. I'm really trying to break out of my old habits and start new ones. Any suggestions?
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Favorite Pen: TWSBI 540 (F) is my "Special Pen" Lamy Vista (F) is my take around pen.
Favorite Ink(s): Baystate Blue, J.Herbin 1670 --- Current Ink: Noodler's: Baystate Blue, TWSBI 540 (F), Private Reserve; Sherwood Green, Lamy Vista (F)
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#70 pmhudepo

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 06:41

Steven,


I don't know the size of the paper you wrote on, but it seems your handwriting is pretty large. That should help create clear, open letter forms, so it is a good start. Slowing is also something that really helps me improve my writing. My fast note-taking scrawl doesn't look anything like the samples I'm posting here.

I find that a daily routine helps. I like mornings, before breakfast. Make tea, let some light into the house, sit down and write.

If you haven't already, look up the classic tripod grip. Pay attention to the details; for instance, it took me a little while to see that my thumb was too low on the pen (too far towards the nib) and that didn't help.

Here is an interesting post about posture and writing; there is a bit of discussion going on, so perhaps we shouldn't take it all too literally.

Have fun during your (daily) sessions. Just create lots of circles, waves, squiggly things -- loads of stuff with a fountain pen, without worrying about what it's supposed to look like. Bad habits may be linked to writing, but probably not to all that 'silly stuff', so take advantage of that. Slowly move from shapes to letter forms. See this post about death grip elimination for example.

Well, that's the summary of what I've learned so far. Hope it helps.




Here is my writing sample. I've been strugleing to produce neat and organized handwriting for a few months now. I was hoping that to some degree that the fountain pen would "magically" transpose my writing to something legible, and some days are better then others. I'm really trying to break out of my old habits and start new ones. Any suggestions?


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#71 pmhudepo

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 06:44

Here are two recent sheets. Just cycling through the alphabet, writing a line of words for each letter. (Adding some Dutch words if my English vocabulary ran out of words.) Did the same exercice today.

Posted Image


Working on slant, but I can see I've got a lot to do.

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#72 TheOriginalStevenH

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 08:37

Here are two recent sheets. Just cycling through the alphabet, writing a line of words for each letter. (Adding some Dutch words if my English vocabulary ran out of words.) Did the same exercice today.
Working on slant, but I can see I've got a lot to do.


The Paper I used with is Rhodia Dot Pad A5. I've noticed after reviewing several of your writing samples somethings that I like to incorporate into my writing. I like your S's and they seem disconnected from the rest of the words as if starting a new pen-stroke, I've tried doing it that way and my S's clean up nicely. I also like the way you start your T's too. instead of going into the T you actually come down with the pen and it also cleans up the word itself nicely. same can be said with the lower case I. Your F's are unique too I never thought about writing it that way i'll have to try it shortly. I have much work to do with my P's and R's and the rest of the alphabet too.

I agree with taking my time to write out the sentence and that's what I've been doing. I don't think my grip on the pen has much to do with it I looked at the links and post you gave suggested and my hand is as close to the correct way to write. If I write smaller I worry the words will be difficult to read and if I write big the words jumble up and the whole page just blurs together... the only other option is to give an extra line of space. Then there is wasted space in my opinion, I might as well print my words then do cursive, so now I'm back where I started. So the relationship I can gather from the way I write is that the size and space I give needs to be addressed somehow. That is what I am working on to clean up my handwriting and be neat and orderly as your handwriting... or other too.
Favorite Pen: TWSBI 540 (F) is my "Special Pen" Lamy Vista (F) is my take around pen.
Favorite Ink(s): Baystate Blue, J.Herbin 1670 --- Current Ink: Noodler's: Baystate Blue, TWSBI 540 (F), Private Reserve; Sherwood Green, Lamy Vista (F)
Favorite Paper: Rhodia Dot Pad A5

#73 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 15:16

theoriginalstevenh:
welcome to the thread. You have analyzed your writing pretty well and hence you should be able to overcome the deficiencies. I would suggest to write one line of text. In the next line, repeat writing slowly. Analyze. Pick the alphabets which need improvements. Repeat. Fill the page with the same line. And finally submit. Let us see.

pmhudepo: Getting better and better. Enjoy you breakfast sessions. We in Pakistan just went through the month of Ramadan, the fasting month. So for the past month, breakfast was at sunset everyday. It is over. Back to normal from tomorrow.
Will be taking the week off.

Regards
Ihtzaz

#74 GhostShip Blue

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 00:56

@ TheOriginalStevenH: Welcome aboard.

Oh, just what ihtzazqamar said all the way around.

I have been practicing but in fractured sessions that span the day so getting photos up is a struggle. Mayhaps tomorrow.
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#75 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 17:46

Just returned from vacation. Will participate soon.

#76 pmhudepo

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 20:06

Ihtzaz: hope you had a good vacation after the Ramadan.

Have continued my practice session and wrote a letter. Will post a picture (of the practice sheets; not the letter) tomorrow.

Steven: thank you for your comments on my writing. Threads like this, with people showing their handwriting, help me form my letters. I pick up ideas, combine them with what I remember from primary school and with whatever silly mess I had developed in the years between learning to write and now :)

I have good hope that during the next months my day-to-day writing will be (a lot?) nicer than at the start of the summer. Having 5 penpals should help, or should at least keep me writing :thumbup:

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#77 dreupee

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 02:43

Hello everyone! All of your penmanship examples are very inspiring. I just started to learn the Palmer method and it is the opposite of everything I have known about writing. At this stage I am still doing the 3/4" slant along the line of sight and the circles to develop the muscles. It's been about 2 weeks and my doodling is more interesting than my hand writing so far.

I'm using an old Sheaffer'S 305 student pen. It'll do till I see a substantial improvement in quality.

I'll make sure and post a photo when I have more than lines and circles.

#78 pmhudepo

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 11:10

Hello everyone! All of your penmanship examples are very inspiring. I just started to learn the Palmer method and it is the opposite of everything I have known about writing. At this stage I am still doing the 3/4" slant along the line of sight and the circles to develop the muscles. It's been about 2 weeks and my doodling is more interesting than my hand writing so far.

I'm using an old Sheaffer'S 305 student pen. It'll do till I see a substantial improvement in quality.

I'll make sure and post a photo when I have more than lines and circles.


:W2FPN:

Thank you for joining this thread. Please do post samples, it will be great to see your progress during the next few weeks or so.

Edited by pmhudepo, 06 September 2011 - 11:21.

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#79 pmhudepo

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 11:14

Here are my practice sheets from the last couple of days. Quite a few pages doing similar exercises. Still slow going, but it is an enjoyable start of the day.

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Today I created lots of circled letters and added more flourishes. Even if they are not very practical, or sometimes even legible, I find them a good way to relax my hand. Here's a closer view:

Posted Image


Indeed, no practice sheet for September 5th: I wrote a letter instead. I might do that more often in the near future. Don't want to disappoint my penpals!

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#80 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 15:33

pmhudepo: Interesting samples. I enjoy just looking at your samples. They are interesting and innovative. Life is getting normal but I do not find much time now a days. I usually get up late and, unlike you, by the time I am at breakfast, I am already getting reminders from the office about some meeting. I do my practice at night. Will post soon.
Ihtzaz

#81 TheOriginalStevenH

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 20:16

Posted Image
Favorite Pen: TWSBI 540 (F) is my "Special Pen" Lamy Vista (F) is my take around pen.
Favorite Ink(s): Baystate Blue, J.Herbin 1670 --- Current Ink: Noodler's: Baystate Blue, TWSBI 540 (F), Private Reserve; Sherwood Green, Lamy Vista (F)
Favorite Paper: Rhodia Dot Pad A5

#82 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 17:41

Here is a practice sheet. Please look carefully and guide me to improve. It is fun to do practice.

Posted Image

#83 smk

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 17:57

Ihtizaz - I have a couple of suggestions. Yours is a pleasing hand as it is but a couple of minor adjustments will pay significant dividends in my opinion.

First off, you will see an increase in legibility and aesthetics if you maintain the miniscule height. For example look at the loop of the 'p', it is almost always smaller than the rest of the letters, another instance is the word 'pen' in the second-last line, all three letters are different sizes.

Another thing I see is a tendency for the letters to bounce up and down withing the same word, this is clearly demonstrated in the word 'trying' in the second-last line.

A couple of sessions of ironing out these inconsistencies will show a tremendous improvement. You might want to try writing on a ruled paper with marking for the waist line (i.e. the top of the miniscules). Like the 4-line English notebooks we used to use in school but with a smaller x-height.

I hope I'm not out of line in my suggestions.

Regards,
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#84 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 19:56

Ihtizaz - I have a couple of suggestions. Yours is a pleasing hand as it is but a couple of minor adjustments will pay significant dividends in my opinion.

First off, you will see an increase in legibility and aesthetics if you maintain the miniscule height. For example look at the loop of the 'p', it is almost always smaller than the rest of the letters, another instance is the word 'pen' in the second-last line, all three letters are different sizes.

Another thing I see is a tendency for the letters to bounce up and down withing the same word, this is clearly demonstrated in the word 'trying' in the second-last line.

A couple of sessions of ironing out these inconsistencies will show a tremendous improvement. You might want to try writing on a ruled paper with marking for the waist line (i.e. the top of the miniscules). Like the 4-line English notebooks we used to use in school but with a smaller x-height.

I hope I'm not out of line in my suggestions.

Regards,
Salman


Thanks Salman for taking time to analyze the sample. The points are understood and well taken. I will work on these. Just to defend myself a bit, the last lines were written with more speed. Thanks again.

Regards
Ihtzaz

#85 TheOriginalStevenH

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 01:19

Here is my beginning handwriting practice

I'll do two a day. I found this old handwriting practice worksheet and am going to relearn the basics, I've already done a few but I'm going to go back and start over and see if improvement can be achieved.
Posted ImagePosted Image
Favorite Pen: TWSBI 540 (F) is my "Special Pen" Lamy Vista (F) is my take around pen.
Favorite Ink(s): Baystate Blue, J.Herbin 1670 --- Current Ink: Noodler's: Baystate Blue, TWSBI 540 (F), Private Reserve; Sherwood Green, Lamy Vista (F)
Favorite Paper: Rhodia Dot Pad A5

#86 GhostShip Blue

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 02:04

I am still here. Schedule has shifted so handwriting practice time is now get the kids ready for school time... Will work out a new routine over the course of the next week or so.

@ ihtzazqamar: Looks really good. I see smk's point about the "p" height, although the vertical stroke seems consistent with heights of the rest of the minuscule letters. Maybe a less drastic difference between the loop and initial down stroke? The "baseline bounce" is something I fight as well - if you hit on a magic cure for that, let me know. I love this hand though - this is what I want mine to grow up and look like.
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#87 pmhudepo

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 10:40

Here is a practice sheet. Please look carefully and guide me to improve. It is fun to do practice.


Ihtzaz: beautiful sample, I think your script has personality. Perhaps this is due to the fact that you're trying to gain speed with this type of writing. I like the idea of very light upstrokes -- I find my own writing more pleasing, less text book, if I write the ascenders and descenders a little quicker.

I agree with Salman's suggestions about consistent x-height. Particularly when writing on a guide sheet, I notice my writing can can have the same problem. A guide sheet is indeed a really useful tool to see which parts you need to work on.

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#88 pmhudepo

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:19

Here is my beginning handwriting practice

I'll do two a day. I found this old handwriting practice worksheet and am going to relearn the basics, I've already done a few but I'm going to go back and start over and see if improvement can be achieved.


Steven, a very nice start, I think. Good idea to start with the basics. I enjoy writing a page or two per session, using each letter of the alphabet to start an each word on a line with. It's not even boring, because I have to think of words, concentrate on letter forms, notice problems and try to fix them in the next word.

If you manage, over time, to write just a little smaller (like the separate letters 'b' on your sheet), or increase spacing just a bit, your hand should look quite pleasing.

A guide sheet can help with spacing, consistency etc. I like Achim's Spencerian sheet, although it uses quite a strong slant. GhostShip Blue also has some nice guide sheets with an easier slant for those use to writing more upright. I'm sure he'll mail them to you if you PM him.

I'm thinking of doing some exercises from Ames' Guide to Self-Instruction in Practical and Artistic Penmanship, as found on the IAMPETH website. They have more books in their section Rare Books.

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#89 pmhudepo

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:23

As for my own practice: I still sit down each morning and write. Yesterday, I started with "A dark Thursday morning," because it really was quite dark. However, it went downhill rather quickly from there and writing practice turned into journaling and working out some issues that are not related to handwriting at all. I have folded up the sheets and pasted them into my journal. Bit of a strange way to fill a Moleskine, but that's really the best place for those words.

So, no close-ups, just an overview:

Posted Image


Posted Image


Am going to think happy thoughts tomorrow morning ;)

Edited by pmhudepo, 09 September 2011 - 11:24.

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#90 ihtzazqamar

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 15:21

Thanks for the comments. I see that we need similar activation energies (sorry for the science term) to overcome these obstacles. But after that it is going to be very stable. We will guide and inspire each other and learn with fun.

Will post later in the evening.

Ihtzaz