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Ditching Clairefontaine...


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#31 Chevalier

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 22:00

I never thought that there were people that aren't using blotting papers, because even the best paper can be ruined by our oily hands. There's usually no way around using blotting paper, when using real ink on the paper. At least if you want to get the best result.

Edited by Chevalier, 02 June 2011 - 22:03.


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#32 blemt

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 22:21

a single sheet stuffed between a notebook page is too much to carry? Really? :embarrassed_smile:


It's not too much to carry. It's not always the most convenient thing to juggle when you are on the go. ;) In note taking mode, I'm writing incredibly quickly. Even an EF nib on CF paper has some dry time to it. Juggling a notebook in my hands while taking notes and then trying to blot requires a level of co-ordination I don't yet have. ;) The experience of using a FP is supposed to be a pleasure. I don't want to stress about my notes and smeared writing.

Now at home and in a controlled space, different rules apply. I've got a bit more time for paper/ink to dry and play nice. At a latter point in time, I may actually revisit this. Who knows? It's part of the fun. :)

#33 pmsalty

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 03:46

I am a left-handed over-writer and I use Clairefontaine Triomphe for almost all of my letter writing. I have never had a pen skip while using it. I've probably used at least a dozen pens and just about as many inks on it and never have had the problems you have stated. Just an observation.
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#34 Garageboy

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:10

Skipping is usually with modern pens with baby bottom nibs

I use Diamine ink, so dry times is usually not an issue, with some Noodlers and PR inks, it does take a bit of time (esp Naples Blue/DC SS Blue)

#35 Lennart Wennberg

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 13:01

I'm very satisfied with Clairefontaine Triomphe, BUT I avoid using inks on it with a known long drying time, for instance Noodler's BP Black.

With inks from J.Herbin I have not had any problems with CF paper.

#36 Bookman

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 14:17

I carry a small Clairefontaine or Rhodia notebook in my cargo-pants pocket. I jot something in one every day. If I've experienced skipping or smearing, it didn't bother me because I don't remember.
I love the smell of fountain pen ink in the morning.

#37 ajk13a

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 14:52

It's amazing how a commonsensical solution always seems to work.

I love Clairefontaine paper, I love the 'greasy' aka silky smooth surface and its writing qualities. It doesn't bleed through or feather with most inks that I use - Diamine, R&K, MB, Noodler's and Waterman.

The Clairefontaine products have supported my attempts at Spencerian and flex writing with many pens Pelikan - Binderized and not-, Shaeffer, Waterman, Parker, Wall Eversharp, Swan, Esty and Conway Stewart.

Blotters are the thing and they were when I learned to write with a fountain pen in school 60 years ago. I too have cut blotters to act as book marks ( and to absorb errant ink). I use a rocker blotter when I am writing a lot and need to turn a page quickly. And I use Binder's whimsical "pin up' advert blotters from the past to remind me of what women used to look like..

If your pen skips or won't start, the nib is being held incorrectly or it needs tuning.

Please use Ockams Razor to whittle away all of the world shaking problems described in this blog.

Signed
A simple scribe and aging student of the writing arts.


Being a left-handed over writer, I agree with many of the points, but i am not giving up my Rhodia Circa Annotation paper. I write with a sheet of blotting paper under my hand to prevent bleeding. I have found that I have a similar experience with the HP 32# Presentation bond as well. The crispness of the written lines, coupled with the subdued nature of the printed lines keeps me coming back for more. For practicing my penmanship, nothing beats Seyes ruled paper.



#38 handwriter

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 15:45

I am really glad I run into this thread cause I was having a similar problem. But in my case the culprit is not CF or any paper, but the pen. Or, to be more precise, the pens. Most of my pens are old ones, but I have a few moderns, and among them, some Waterman of the Man (or Le Man) series. They're trouble.
I was using paper that was great with my old pens (110 g/m2 printer paper) and I found that really annoying skipping problem. No with just one pen. A Man 100 in plain black finish, a Man 100 Opera and a Man 200. The three of them with that problem. So after a while I diagnosed insufficient flow and sent them to John Sorowka. Got them back yesterday. I have asked John to stub the M nib of the Man 200 and just open a bit the flow of the two Man 100. Well, the 200 came back just glorious, I really love it. It was by far the worst skipper. Never happened after it made it back from Oxford. Its two biggest companions are visibly better after John's tuning, but by no means perfect. One of these days I'll send them back to John again. I thought a lot about it and used these pens for hours, and asked John's opinion. Finally I came to the conclusion that the problem is that the tip of the nib of these pens is quite round-shaped. Too much for most papers. For me the most convincing test was that the skipping almost disappers with more absorbent, more textured paper.
The tip of most of my vintage pens is somewhat flatter. This give them some tooth, and they never skip, even if I use really glossy paper (like Oxford sheets, a pretty common brand over here). Stubbing the M nib cured the problem because it entails making the nib's tip flatter.
So you guys can just pick a different brand of paper, but I think I will have my nibs stubbed, even knowing that I will get little line variation with the F nibs of the two Man pens.
I'm a user, baby

#39 gregamckinney

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 15:55

The only issue I have with CF paper is that it seems particularly sensitive to oils from my hands, resulting in frequent skipping at the bottom of the page (where there was none at the top.)

I try to have a note card or scrap of paper under the heel of my hand, which helps a lot.

Slow drying inks are an issue too, but I usually don't burn through pages fast enough to have too much trouble.

Regards, greg

#40 Donald594

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 17:05

I agree. 1) It's not cost effective for me as a high school student. 2) The ink takes forever to dry. Coupled with the fact that I'm a lefty, and it's terrible. 3) The slickness of the paper makes me loose control of my writing. There is more, but I got lazy.

#41 CopyGuru

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 18:07

I find with some pens the blank Clairefontaine paper may skip a bit... but lined or 5x5 work fine. it feels sometimes as if the blue lines create a little "grip" for the pen to lay down a nice line. I had a blank hardbound book once- and it was very skippy... the paper almost feels like it has a waxy coating to it when it is no lined.

#42 KrazyIvan

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 18:29


a single sheet stuffed between a notebook page is too much to carry? Really? :embarrassed_smile:


It's not too much to carry. It's not always the most convenient thing to juggle when you are on the go. ;) In note taking mode, I'm writing incredibly quickly. Even an EF nib on CF paper has some dry time to it. Juggling a notebook in my hands while taking notes and then trying to blot requires a level of co-ordination I don't yet have. ;) The experience of using a FP is supposed to be a pleasure. I don't want to stress about my notes and smeared writing.

Now at home and in a controlled space, different rules apply. I've got a bit more time for paper/ink to dry and play nice. At a latter point in time, I may actually revisit this. Who knows? It's part of the fun. :)


I do pretty furious notetaking myself and one thing that helps is just leaving the sheet on the previous page and moving it forward as you move forward. Two sheets also helps but I have yet to try this in a mobile environment yet. I have not had to since my current one sheet method is working for me. :thumbup:

#43 Ipno Tizer

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 18:42

I've yet to start my first Clairefonatine notebook.

But you won't keep me away from my Rhodia. No way.

Chris B.

#44 Zoe

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 20:43

I'm a huge fan of all paper Clairefontaine, including their watercolour paper.

I've used the 6155 writing tablets for about 35 years and alternate pens often, and although I do notice some lag in drying with one or two inks, it hasn't effected my writing or created smears or caused any inconvenience.

So, like two other members, I'll trade ya. :)

#45 bluemagister

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 05:23

CF paper just isn't economical enough for me to use, especially when Double A paper is so cheap, has enough tooth to give the nib something to work with AND is 22 lb/very bright white. The dry time is excellent and it's acid free...

Couple that with Miquelrius notebooks that are made to be FP friendly and suddenly my desire for CF at a premium price wanes. I'll still use it, but only if I can get it on clearance.

#46 caligatia

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 02:00

I love my Webbie and my Triomphe. The only ink I don't use on them is Noodler's Walnut, because it takes absolutely forever to dry on the page. But everything else dries quick enough for me, and I love the smoothness. I'm currently on the last two pages of my first Webbie and am about to crack open its replacement. And I write in it with many, MANY pen/ink combinations. Poor thing looks so messed up from all the colors... :)

#47 empyrean

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:07

I do not like writing on CF. To me, it takes the joy out of writing with a fountain pen. I've purchased some inexpensive journals at Staples and the paper is a joy to write upon. Each of my pens show their personality on this inexpensive paper, so no more 'spensive paper for me. :bunny01:
empyrean Conklin,Stipula Pyrite, Bon Voyage & Tuscany Dreams Siena, Levengers, Sailor 1911,Pelikan M200, Bexley BX802, AoLiWen Music Notes pen, Jinhao's,1935 Parker Deluxe Challenger, 1930s Eversharp Gold Seal RingTop, 1940s Sheaffer Tuckaway, 1944 Sheaffer Triumph, Visconti Van Gogh midi, Esties!(SJ, T, and J),Cross Townsend Medalist & Aventura, 1930s Mentmore Autoflow, A bunch of Conway-Stewarts 84, Platinum 3776 Chartres Blue(med); Montegrappa Elmo (broad nib), Delta "The Journal" (med nib)

#48 inkypete

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:12

Must say this seems like a thread of heretics! How dare you all cast doubt over clairefontaine. (You can see me humming with my fingers in my ears so I can't hear any more of this).

One of the greatest days of my fountain pen life was when notemaker.com.au brought the range of clairefontaine into Australia. I just love the stuff. I have never had a skip or any problem with this paper (except the recycled stuff). I am wondering if there is a different stock floating around?

It is the perfect sheet for me.
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#49 watch_art

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 20:15

The secret to blotter paper is...

write with your wet juicy pens and inks on your fancy CF paper, stuff the blotter paper in the notebook/journal like you would stuff a piece of paper with other notes or whatever on it, then just shut the book. Blotted. Done. no big deal. open it and keep on going. you need to write more than one page at a time? stick your blotter paper (I use paper towels folded in half and cut to size) on the wet page, turn to the next page and keep on going! yee ha! nothing extra to carry around or keep up with.

fpn_1405136194__fpn_1404594699__sg_tag.j sigpic14481_1.gif vanness.jpg?t=1321916122


#50 DAYoung

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 21:52

Must say this seems like a thread of heretics! How dare you all cast doubt over clairefontaine. (You can see me humming with my fingers in my ears so I can't hear any more of this).

One of the greatest days of my fountain pen life was when notemaker.com.au brought the range of clairefontaine into Australia. I just love the stuff. I have never had a skip or any problem with this paper (except the recycled stuff). I am wondering if there is a different stock floating around?

It is the perfect sheet for me.


LALALALAL - I agree with Pete - ALALALALA.

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#51 empyrean

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 21:58


Must say this seems like a thread of heretics! How dare you all cast doubt over clairefontaine. (You can see me humming with my fingers in my ears so I can't hear any more of this).

One of the greatest days of my fountain pen life was when notemaker.com.au brought the range of clairefontaine into Australia. I just love the stuff. I have never had a skip or any problem with this paper (except the recycled stuff). I am wondering if there is a different stock floating around?

It is the perfect sheet for me.


LALALALAL - I agree with Pete - ALALALALA.

Posted Image

:roflmho: could be....maybe I got hold of some different stock altogether...same price tag tho~! :crybaby:
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#52 DAYoung

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 22:24

could be....maybe I got hold of some different stock altogether...same price tag tho~!


The Habana journals now use 85gsm instead of 90gsm. But aside from this, I'm not aware of any variations in paper for Clairefontaine. Every batch has been smooth, with no feathering or bleed-through.

(I'm an Exaclair 'featured writer', so this might look biased. But I was a Clairefontaine fan first.)

Edited by DAYoung, 12 June 2011 - 22:39.

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#53 Ghost Plane

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 22:36

Humming along La la la la la la :bunny01:

#54 KrazyIvan

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 22:40

Harmonizing: LALALALALALALALALA.
Eeeeuw I'm off key. :D

#55 DAYoung

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 22:50

A flock of sheep.

A school of fish.

A chorus of denials.
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#56 777

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 23:25

Haha! This thread has gotten really funny! Posted Image I didn't expect it to go this direction... Posted Image

Thanks for giving me a little laugh. All you CF fans can keep your eyes peeled for my notebooks. I'll be listing them FS soon. :)

Regards,
777

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#57 empyrean

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 02:45

Haha! This thread has gotten really funny! Posted Image I didn't expect it to go this direction... Posted Image

Thanks for giving me a little laugh. All you CF fans can keep your eyes peeled for my notebooks. I'll be listing them FS soon. :)

Regards,
777

maybe I should give CF another try~??? :roflmho: a reprieve~???? :roflmho:
empyrean Conklin,Stipula Pyrite, Bon Voyage & Tuscany Dreams Siena, Levengers, Sailor 1911,Pelikan M200, Bexley BX802, AoLiWen Music Notes pen, Jinhao's,1935 Parker Deluxe Challenger, 1930s Eversharp Gold Seal RingTop, 1940s Sheaffer Tuckaway, 1944 Sheaffer Triumph, Visconti Van Gogh midi, Esties!(SJ, T, and J),Cross Townsend Medalist & Aventura, 1930s Mentmore Autoflow, A bunch of Conway-Stewarts 84, Platinum 3776 Chartres Blue(med); Montegrappa Elmo (broad nib), Delta "The Journal" (med nib)

#58 Yuki Onitsura

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:18

I've noticed that Clairefontaine does seem to make ink take forever to dry. Having said that, I usually only pull out the 'good' paper when I have time to properly sit down and take my time writing so it's not really a major drama.

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#59 centennial

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 06:52

As a lefty, I hated the dry time on Clairefontaine papers- then I found out about Kleenex - and right after that - blotting paper.

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Be extremely addicting.
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#60 andru

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:08

I've never tried proper blotting but I'd be curious to know how it affects shading? Can you see a stucco sort of blotting pattern in the shading, the way you do with a crumpled/twisted tissue? Is there any shading left in the usual sense?