Pilot Custom 743 Fa Or Less Expensive Alternative

[ljkd13]

Hello All -

 

I'm sort of a posting-newbie here, but I've used information from this board tons of times, so thanks!

 

I have a calligraphy business where I work mainly with copperplate writing, and although I love my dip pens, I'm looking to try a flex nib to see if the work comes out the same quality in order to save time. I also just love having new fountain pens, so I think I'd like to invest in a good flex nib pen.

 

My question is - is it worth the $200 to get a Pilot Custom 743 FA, or are the less expensive alternatives that also offer very flexible nibs that I might not realize. I've looked up and down for a noodler's flex nib, but they seem to have sold out in the first 15 minutes.

 

Thanks for any and all comments.

 

http://inkyquillscalligraphy.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/img_0764.jpg

 

-Luke

[ljkd13]

I may have posted this in the wrong part of the forum - does this belong in "writing instruments"?

[TemurAmir]

I may have posted this in the wrong part of the forum - does this belong in "writing instruments"?

 

Yes.

Regarding your question, can you give us some detail on what kind of flex nibs you are using so we can judge your expectations on the flexibility of the fountain pen?

The Custom 743 FA has reviews that you can find under the review index. Generally, these nibs will never be as flexible as the most flexible dip pens. These modern fountain pen nibs will probably seem almost like semi-flex dip pens. Vintage pens such as the more common Waterman 52 have some of the most flexible fountain pen nibs you can find. Wet-noodles, as they are called, are the most flexy of these vintage nibs. However, these are not as flexy as some dip pens. In general, I wouldn't recommend switching to fountain pens for something like Copperplate.

 

Also, I'm not sure if you are right-handed, but if you are, you probably use an oblique pen holder for your calligraphy. With fountain pens, this is impossible. Therefore, you may find that a straight pen will not produce the results you want. Furthermore, searching for vintage wet noodles will cost you more money than just using those cheap dip pens. I hope this helps, I love your Copperplate.

[acolythe]

I have 2 Custom 742's with FA and three Namiki Flacons, one with flex mods by John Mottishaw.

The mod'd Falcon and the 2 FA's write very similarly and very satisfactorily for me with good flex. However the namiki carries little ink and the two FA's have feed problems with starving. Mike-at-Work has a fix for this but I have not yet sent them to him.

[Apotheosis]

While I have a namiki falcon, I feel that nothing beats a seasoned vintage flex nib - if you're lucky, you'll find some priced less that 200 on the for sale side of this network.

 

Browse around the classifieds, you may find something you like for less that what you're dreading to pay for.

rgds

leo

 

Beautiful penmanship btw..!!

Edited May 5, 2011 by Apotheosis

[ljkd13]

Thanks for the input -

 

I use gillot 303's, Nikko G's, leondardt principals primarily. I know that they wont be as flexible as those, and of course not have as much ink, but I'm thinking about smaller work for the fountain pen - namely the return address, which can be done faster and smaller than the larger main address.

 

I am right handed and do use an oblique holder, though I can be flexible with my paper angle on my light table and should be able to get the angles right.

 

As I understand it then - hold off on spending $200 on a Custom 743 FA and look instead for something vintage? I've always been concerned with vintage pens and the quality and functionality that I may find - especially buying them long-distance.

 

Appreciate the comments on the copperplate. More of my stuff is at www.inkyquills.com

[Lloyd]

My 743 FA wasn't fine enough for very fine Spencerian like a return address. Also, and couldn't maintain its flow during flexion. However, I had Mike-it-Work make it into (at least) an XXF that almost never generates "railroad tracks". However, it is definitely a semi-flex in regards to how much pressure is required. The modification ran ~$60 and was SO worth it..

[Mickey]

Thanks for the input -

 

I use gillot 303's, Nikko G's, leondardt principals primarily. I know that they wont be as flexible as those, and of course not have as much ink, but I'm thinking about smaller work for the fountain pen - namely the return address, which can be done faster and smaller than the larger main address.

 

I am right handed and do use an oblique holder, though I can be flexible with my paper angle on my light table and should be able to get the angles right.

 

As I understand it then - hold off on spending $200 on a Custom 743 FA and look instead for something vintage? I've always been concerned with vintage pens and the quality and functionality that I may find - especially buying them long-distance.

 

Appreciate the comments on the copperplate. More of my stuff is at www.inkyquills.com

 

The Falcon is probably about as flexible as the Nikko G. Vintage wet noodles approach or exceed the Leonardt EF for flexibility, but probably won't provide as fine a hairline or as broad a swell. I don't know that anything on a FP approaches the Brause 76 or 86 for flex or range. The biggest problem with FPs is the feeds won't keep up with the nibs. Either you set up the pen to provide fine hairlines and write at glacial pace for the swells, or set up the pen to handle the swells at a reasonable pace and end up drowning the hairlines.

 

As for doing Copperplate with a FP, of course you can do it. It's just more difficult and requires more rotation of the page. George Bickham's "The Universal Penman," the exemplar of exemplars for Copperplate, was published a century before oblique pen holders were patented. The oblique holder, I believe, was developed for Spencerian (19th century).

 

I wouldn't swear to this being fact, but I believe the 18th century models on which Copperplate is based, were actually written with very fine, edged pens (quills), not with pointed pens, at all.

[ljkd13]

I think what it boils down to is that I need to find a way to try some flex-nibs before I commit to buying anything, because it may not be what I'm looking for. If only Noodler's still had theirs available, I could get one for $14 and try it out!

 

the link for my website seems to be down at the moment - this will work for now: http://inkyquillscalligraphy.wordpress.com/

[rwilsonedn]

I don't think you are going to find any modern fountain pen that approaches the line-width variation and the ink flow in your sample. As others have said, you will have to have a modern nib custom-ground to get anything like the hairline you have, and then you will have to have the feed modified to support the wide lines. Even then the result will be a compromise, and I doubt it will deliver the amount of ink you are showing. Given the quality of your work, I fear you will find the exercise frustrating and expensive, but not in the end satisfactory.

ron

[Mickey]

Viewing the video link below should probably answer most of your questions about what is possible.

 

 

[ljkd13]

If I could get a pen to act like the one in that video, it would do what I need it to.

 

I emailed Noodler's today and they told me that they are releasing some of their flex nibs in the next few weeks, so I'm going to try to get a few so I can try it out without paying an arm and a leg.

[kcunvong]

I know it's your business, but still, that handwriting is amazing. Does it look like that during normal note taking? As far as modern pens go, that 743 is about a "flexible" as it gets, without having the pen sent to a nibmeister. The nib itself is bigger than a 742, making it slightly more flexible. I'm not sure if the pen was meant to be flexed on a regular basis, because I am aware that the pen is prone to railroading, due to the feed delivering an insufficient amount of ink to the nib. Perhaps a more expensive alternative, but with better results, is to look into Greg Minuskin or John Mottishaw and their flexible Pilot Falcons ($250+). They thin the tines out real well for some crazy flexing. How about looking at a Waterman 52, Wahl-Eversharp Skyline, Mabie Todd Swan, or a vintage German pistonfiller? For instance, I've found quite a few Skylines on eBay with ample flex for under $40. Just look at the tines - they need to be long and come to a fine taper at the end. A super cheap alternative to the above two would be to consider a Noodler's Flex pen (~$15). Sadly, these are sort of hard to find. Once obtained, they require adjustments to find a balance between ink flow and flexibility - they are prone to railroading.

[ljkd13]

Thanks kcunvong - it always depends on how quickly I need to write - the stuff for customers is always slow and deliberate, and done on a light table with a grid behind. When I take notes I like to vary my handwriting to get into styles and particular letters - but it doesn't always look so pretty.

 

Hopefully I can get my hands on a few noodlers to try it out.

[bridgettt]

Have you looked at Vintage Pens? It is run by one of the members here and has the advantage of showing how flexy each nib is with a writing sample. I bet if you contacted him about what you are looking for, he could help you decide.

Edited May 5, 2011 by bridgettt

[pen2paper]

love these threads!

allows me the pleasure of viewing some of my favorites.. adding more!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyFtdi3k70o&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

Nathan's flex pen

[watch_art]

You can check with Mauricio in the FS forum for some of his vintage flex and wet noodles. Some of them are pricey. There's another seller in there, but I can't think of the name. Both have great reputations as far as I know.

[ArnyDelan168]

The so called 'flexy' FA nib in Pilot line was meant to be used on Japenese caligraphy which has shorter stroke and automatically longer moment for the feed to 'breath' as the short nature of Japanese caligraphy. And it was the rason why it never sold outside Japan.

[Algester]

less expensive alternatives well considering the OP was a calligraphy practitioner to who ever still finds this relevant the Gillot 303 should fit the Noodler's Creeper was it... if not the Ahab and Konrad will yes I know this is a resurrected thread

[Scribblesoften]

Back in 2011 Noodler's flex pens were made in small batches. It is a lot easier to get an Ahab or Konrad today.