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Parker 51 Aero Pli-Glass Sac


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#1 Gary1952

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 04:45

Hi,

Is it possible to obtain replacement pli-glass sacs for Parker 51 aerometric fountain pens?

If so, where can I purchase some?

Regards,
Intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

#2 OldGriz

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 11:30

Sorry, but I have not seen pliglass sacs available anywhere.... Pen Sac produces a tapered sac for the 51 but it is not pliglass..
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#3 Gary1952

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 04:47

In view of the outstanding durability of the pli-glass sac I find it amazing that they are still not in production.
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#4 OldGriz

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:30

In view of the outstanding durability of the pli-glass sac I find it amazing that they are still not in production.


It is exactly because of the durability of the pliglass sac that they are not still in production....
Parker was the only company to use the pliglass sac and when they discontinued production of the 51 and other pens that used it there was no reason to make more sacs.
Why would they continue to produce a part that will very likely not be needed by repair people.
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#5 Gary1952

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:05

Hi,

I have some Parker 51 fountain pens with failed pli-glass sacs. Hence my question concerning suppliers of replacement sacs.

Regards,
Intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

#6 Gary1952

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:11


In view of the outstanding durability of the pli-glass sac I find it amazing that they are still not in production.


It is exactly because of the durability of the pliglass sac that they are not still in production....
Parker was the only company to use the pliglass sac and when they discontinued production of the 51 and other pens that used it there was no reason to make more sacs.
Why would they continue to produce a part that will very likely not be needed by repair people.


Hi,

I note that in the Parker pen parts catalogues from the 60's that nipples and reservoirs (sacs) were available as replacement parts for P51s.

Regards,

Attached Files


Edited by Gary1952, 02 May 2011 - 02:16.

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#7 viclip

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:31

I wonder whether today's silicone sacs are as durable as the original pli-glass sacs?
If so then the 1940s Parker formulation has been superseded by current technology, although it would be nice to restore a P51 aerometric to original specs from a purist perspective.

#8 Gary1952

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 03:18

I wonder whether today's silicone sacs are as durable as the original pli-glass sacs?
If so then the 1940s Parker formulation has been superseded by current technology, although it would be nice to restore a P51 aerometric to original specs from a purist perspective.


Hi,

Good point.

Can someone confirm that silicone sacs are as good as or superior to the original pli-glass sacs?

Regards,
Intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

#9 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 03:51

I think I have seen Ariel Kullock have replacement plyglas sacs from time to time.

I think I have read that the Pen Sac companies P-51 sac is not a rigid as the original but works adequately.

I'm kind of curious about the Hero pens with the P-51 style filler. Since they are made (presumably) in the original Parker factory, would they be close enough in size to be used as replacement sacs? With some of those pens being around $1 each, it'd be a pretty good deal if the sac fit the P-51 filler.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

#10 Gary1952

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:33

I think I have seen Ariel Kullock have replacement plyglas sacs from time to time.

I think I have read that the Pen Sac companies P-51 sac is not a rigid as the original but works adequately.

I'm kind of curious about the Hero pens with the P-51 style filler. Since they are made (presumably) in the original Parker factory, would they be close enough in size to be used as replacement sacs? With some of those pens being around $1 each, it'd be a pretty good deal if the sac fit the P-51 filler.

Bruce in Ocala, FL

Hi,

Excellent suggestion - has anyone actually tried to use a Hero sac in a P51?

Regards,
Intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.

#11 FarmBoy

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:42

It is true that Parker did stock as replacement/repair parts the sac and connector assembly. There are a few sources that may or may not have them, I doubt anyone will volunteer to sell you one. They were not common then and are less common now. (NOS parts stashes do turn up.)

Martin at Woodbin does sell a tapered (yes you need a tapered sac) silicone sac that works in the 51. It isn't exact but it will work.

If you watch the market place, you will find parts 51s. Buy one and just move your body/hood/nib/feed to a good filler core rarely do you find an aero 51 with a bad sac.

Farmboy

#12 LedZepGirl

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 05:16

Is a Parker Super '21' sac the same as a '51'? I have a junk Super '21' in my box of parts right now.
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#13 Gary1952

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 06:48

Is a Parker Super '21' sac the same as a '51'? I have a junk Super '21' in my box of parts right now.


Hey....I like the picture..............is it Frank Zappa?
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#14 AlanE

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 10:38


I wonder whether today's silicone sacs are as durable as the original pli-glass sacs?
If so then the 1940s Parker formulation has been superseded by current technology, although it would be nice to restore a P51 aerometric to original specs from a purist perspective.


Hi,

Good point.

Can someone confirm that silicone sacs are as good as or superior to the original pli-glass sacs?

Regards,


I have used silicone sacs, not in a 51 though, they are incredibly strong. I messed with an offcut and it was verry very difficult to break.

I recently aquired a 1949 51 which is beautiful apart from being re sac'd with a conventional sac. Works OK but you cant see the ink levels. I will replace it for a silicone sac one day.

I think the hero sacs are silicone also.

HTH

Alan

#15 OldGriz

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:14

I note that in the Parker pen parts catalogues from the 60's that nipples and reservoirs (sacs) were available as replacement parts for P51s.

Regards,


Which would be correct as the pen was still being produced by Parker in the 60s.... production did not end until the early 70's

Hero sacs do not fit... they are too small

Edited by OldGriz, 02 May 2011 - 11:15.

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#16 Gary1952

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:27


I note that in the Parker pen parts catalogues from the 60's that nipples and reservoirs (sacs) were available as replacement parts for P51s.

Regards,


Which would be correct as the pen was still being produced by Parker in the 60s.... production did not end until the early 70's

Hero sacs do not fit... they are too small

Oldgriz,

Do you think that a sac from a Parker Super 21 would be suitable for use in a Parker 51?

Regards

Edited by Gary1952, 02 May 2011 - 11:33.

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#17 Ron Z

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:08

The sacs that Martin (Woodbin) sells as 51 sacs are too small and are loose in the sac guard. A standard silicone sac from Woodbin works and holds more ink.

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#18 LedZepGirl

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 23:49


Is a Parker Super '21' sac the same as a '51'? I have a junk Super '21' in my box of parts right now.


Hey....I like the picture..............is it Frank Zappa?


Thanks. Yes it is. :wub:
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#19 wushimushi

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 08:31

I've got my hands on a Parker 51, but its sac is something like midnight blue. I've never seen the original 'Pli-glass' sac before, but I'm guessing it's supposed to be transparent? Is it possible for Pli-glass sac to be stained by ink to the extent that it is completely opaque?

#20 OldGriz

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:11

I've got my hands on a Parker 51, but its sac is something like midnight blue. I've never seen the original 'Pli-glass' sac before, but I'm guessing it's supposed to be transparent? Is it possible for Pli-glass sac to be stained by ink to the extent that it is completely opaque?


Yes and very commonly found stained with the ink used...
Depending on the ink and length of time it was left in the pen... a fair amount may be removed by using a good technical pen cleaner (Rapidoeze, etc) to flush the pen
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#21 Garageboy

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:59

Having a clear sac is sorta rare
I've seen most a dark amber-ey color

WHAT IS the original sac made off?
It has a distinct odor and is definitely NOT silicone
Silicones will probably tear easier than the original

#22 Kaych

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 00:19

David Nishimura at VintagePens.net has identified the original pli-glass sac as being made of PVC.

Edited by Kaych, 21 September 2011 - 00:20.

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#23 fpn00b

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 15:19

Sort of 'necro-ing' this post but here goes. I notice on the bay that David has the repro sacs up for sale. The next logical question is, if one gets them to replace an old sac, what would be the best method/adhesive to use to secure them to the nipple? Does anyone know what Parker would use to secure them originally? I was thinking shellac, but wondered if there may have been something else seeing as they are supposed to be PVC and could withstand stronger chemical adhesives. Any thoughts?

Thanks any and all,
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#24 Ruminator

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 21:45

The next logical question is, if one gets them to replace an old sac, what would be the best method/adhesive to use to secure them to the nipple? Does anyone know what Parker would use to secure them originally? I was thinking shellac, but wondered if there may have been something else seeing as they are supposed to be PVC and could withstand stronger chemical adhesives. Any thoughts?


I'm bumping this thread because I'd like to know too. I have a P51 apart on my worktable now (leaking ink... possible at the nipple) and am going to replace the old sac with a silicone sac. I'm going to use shellac so I can get the pen back into service, but would like to know whether there is a preferred alternative.

Best...

-=d

#25 OcalaFlGuy

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 00:55

Until David or one of the real experts step in, try this logic on for size.

Shellac as far as I know is the universal sac adhesive. All of the factories that had sac pens probably used it. It's recommended still today as the best material to use for both latex and silicone sacs (yes. silicone sacs).

I've paid close attention to all David has said both posted and some backchannel about the new Pli-glass sacs. He has not made any mention of there being any issues with it and shellac. As shellac IS the recognized universal sac adhesive, I would suspect if the new Pli-glass sacs were not compatible with shellac, he would have mentioned that by now.

How's that work for ya?

Bruce in Ocala, FL

#26 Vintagepens

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:24

Shellac is indeed just fine for this application -- I don't see any need for anything else, and shellac is what I've been using myself (for the new sacs, and also for all the vintage new old stock 51 sacs that I've used over the years).

By the way, as far as I can tell, no one is currently selling "silicone" sacs that are actually 100% silicone rubber. The samples I've tested may have had some silicone in them, but are mostly some other plastic. How they will hold up over time is unknown. I have stopped using them for high-value pens at risk of discoloration, since they may well end up causing more harm in the long run than conventional latex rubber sacs.

#27 Ruminator

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:52

Thanks, David (and Bruce) for illumination. It validated my decision to go ahead and use shellac as the adhesive. I read (somewhere) about a solvent-based adhesive, but that makes me nervous because a solvent-weld would basically dissolve a portion of both the sac and the nipple to achieve the connection.

That's fine for house plumbing, municipal water lines, and municipal sewerage, but I think not so much for fountain pens. :)

David, I'd be curious to know about your testing procedure to determine the composition of the silicone sacs.

Thanks for the information. I'm more confident now that I made the correct decision.

-=d

#28 Vintagepens

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 13:48

David, I'd be curious to know about your testing procedure to determine the composition of the silicone sacs.


I first was alerted to the problem by a polymer specialist. I was working on a project to re-make some other kinds of specialized sacs that no one is currently making, and though I knew that the originals were made of conventional latex rubber, I wanted to consult an expert in synthetic rubbers to see if some more modern material might actually be more suitable. So I submitted various samples, including several sacs which I had bought as (and fully believed to be) silicone.

To my shock, I was told that these sacs were not silicone, but plastic. When I expressed disbelief, I was instructed to try a simple flame test, and the results were painfully obvious. The sac samples immediately scorched, melted, and burned. Samples of genuine thin-wall silicone rubber tubing of the exact same dimensions did show some minor scorching if left in the hottest part of the flame too long, but did not melt or burn, and once removed from the heat and brushed off, the samples remained pretty much intact.

I did shoot a video clip of the tests, holding the two samples together so one can see that they are being exposed to the same heat. Haven't gotten around to editing it and posting it, but can try to get it cobbled together in the next couple of days if you are interested.

#29 Ruminator

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 00:14

I did shoot a video clip of the tests, holding the two samples together so one can see that they are being exposed to the same heat. Haven't gotten around to editing it and posting it, but can try to get it cobbled together in the next couple of days if you are interested.


I'm fascinated, but there's no rush to do anything. I know you're busy (I haven't met anyone skilled in fountain pen mechanics who isn't) and won't impose. If/when you get around to it, send me a PM so I can go see.

I'm an engineer by profession (of the uncivil sort) and all things mechanical and physical fascinate me.

Thanks!

-=d

#30 nknizam

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:10

How do you detach the sac guard from the connector in order to get to the 'Pli-glass'sac. My Parker 51 sac guard seems to stick very firmly to the connector. Should I unscrew/twist and pull the sac guard?
Thanks for any feedback.