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Interesting Montblanc ?


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64 replies to this topic

#1 Pen Nut

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 18:03

I have recently placed a percussion pistol in a well respected specialist auction house and when the catalogue landed I noticed the picture of a pen with the description below:

A “Montblanc - Meisterstuck” fountain pen, formerly the property of Joachim von Ribbentrop, German Foreign Minister during the Third Reich, GC; together with a printed letter of authentication from the son of Major Maurice Hockliffe, who was Chief Security Officer for Hamburg when Ribbentrop was captured, and who relieved Ribbentrop of various items, including the fountain pen; also a photocopied page from a book confirming that the initial interviews with Ribbentrop were made in Major Hockliffe’s office while awaiting instructions, and a copy of Hockliffe’s son’s birth certificate.

Of course my interest was aroused; it’s a Montblanc pen after all! , and I placed a sealed bid via post on this.

Doing a bit of research on Ribbentrop not sure if it was the right thing to do as he appeared, like the rest of them, to be a high ranking vile chap who, when tried, was rightly hanged. Do I want a pen that has, in its life, probably signed papers that at least helped the war effort and at worst sent people to their deaths? Is that too emotional? Does the famous gun supporting line of “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” apply to pens as well? Anyway I have not retracted my bid, although Mrs Pen Nut says I should, so if I do end up owning it I will post pictures for your viewing and identification.

Would the ownership of a pen that had a known ‘sinister’ back ground or owner bother you?

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#2 shaqin93

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 18:16

Nope, it's just a pen, with a dark history, no less, but still a pen.

#3 Joane

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 18:47

This is a very interesting question. I am of two minds on a pen like that. On the one hand, would I like to be the recipient of bad vibes from a pen that has very likely written evil things? On the other, if a good and noble person were to take that pen and write nothing but kindly and positive thoughts, maybe the evil could be exorcised from the pen, which is only the instrument of the user's intentions after all, and innocent in itself. It's not like an article of torture, the purpose of which is only to inflict pain and destruction and which I would never like to see. A pen can be used for good or bad purposes and if the writer can overcome the association and undertake to use it only for good, the bad that has gone through the pen could eventually be turned around. In a way it could be seen as rescuing the pen--but I would not blame anyone if they were unable to deal with the negative association.

Edited by Joane, 21 March 2011 - 18:49.

Happiness is a real Montblanc...

#4 jar

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 19:39

Inanimate objects cannot do evil things.

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#5 pelman

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 19:45

I am of two minds as well. Is the value being placed on who the owner was or what the pen is? I would suspect both. People change as their lives progress. Neo nazis become non prejudiced and vice versa. So I suppose a pen (an inanimate object) can "change" in the hands of the user.

ETA: wow Jar similar thoughts. In the middle of my response you wrote a nice concise remark.

Edited by pelman, 21 March 2011 - 19:47.


#6 Marek Li

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 20:10

The photo of postmark (which I show below) is only apparently unassociated with this pen.
The pen is a pen, but I never ever want to have anything that belonged to a man like this one. If I had his pen, I would shame to say that it was his. There are so many interesting pens.


Posted Image
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#7 Makar

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 20:18

Antiques with a human connection often sell at a higher price than a similar one with no connection. Often simple things bought purely because of the connection. This pen is different from that - you would want it because of what it is rather than who it belonged to. However, you already know all about who it belonged to and that connection is there and will probably not completely leave you.

I often find that something posted here leads you down a path of research and learning. This has been the case with this post. From what I have read of this man I would never want to use his pen. Of course inanimate objects cannot do evil things but they can allow for negative thoughts to prevail.

Just my thoughts, as asked

Stephen
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#8 mohanjude

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 21:08

Very interesting. There was a recent article that there is huge interest in Nazi related items on the market now.

#9 Sunflowers

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 21:53

I would not want to be within a 4,000 mile radius of that thing.

#10 Malcy

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 23:35

Very interesting. There was a recent article that there is huge interest in Nazi related items on the market now.


Was it this article?

The bizarre Nazi book craze
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#11 Plano

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Posted 22 March 2011 - 15:39

Well to me the answer is simple. If Mrs Pen Nut says to retract the bid then retract the bid. No pen is worth the hassle of a mad spouse. Now for the part about the pen it all depends on your views. Some people do feel that objects can have bad karma/ bad energy so really its up to you. I myself wouldnt. Uy it but only because tbe wife wouldnt want it in her house

#12 Decjhf

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 23:15

Inanimate objects cannot do bad things. I think this pen is a mark of historical significance, it was there in the war, writing orders (of any kind) blindly writing whatever Ribbentrop wrote. I can understand why people wouldn't be fond of it due to it's previous owner, but as a collector's item it is extremely interesting.
However, if you are having reservations, it's best to err on the side of caution and not buy this, if you feel it has a bad vibe.

#13 Pen Nut

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 14:08

Didnt win the pen and was not that dissapointed. Its on Wallis & Wallis website should anyone wish to view the pen.

Money may not make you happy but I would rather cry in a Rolls-Royce

 

The true definition of madness - Doing the same thing everyday and expecting different results......


#14 Makar

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 14:24

Didnt win the pen and was not that dissapointed. Its on Wallis & Wallis website should anyone wish to view the pen.



I'm pleased for you TBH. It needed a bit of work anyway...dodgy previous owner.

Doesn't note what it realised in £? Do you know where the hammer fell?

regards
Stephen

Edited by Makar, 25 March 2011 - 14:26.

When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe.

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#15 Pen Nut

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 14:31

£330 it made. How does that sound in your experience?

Money may not make you happy but I would rather cry in a Rolls-Royce

 

The true definition of madness - Doing the same thing everyday and expecting different results......


#16 Makar

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 14:39

It was a 139...jings...I'd maybe have had it exorcised for that... :blink: nah...best left alone, from my perspective at least but cheap as chips, no?
When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe.

John Muir

#17 Pen Nut

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 16:29

Not my type or era of pen really so my knowledge of value isnt that good. What price do 139's get in that sort of condition. Ball park figure will do.

Thanks.

Money may not make you happy but I would rather cry in a Rolls-Royce

 

The true definition of madness - Doing the same thing everyday and expecting different results......


#18 Michael R.

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 16:37

Most 139s I've seen sold for 2000-3500 Euro lately .

Did you see a picture of the Ribbentrop pen?

Cheers

Michael

#19 Pen Nut

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 17:39

Its still on wallis&wallis.org should you wish to view it.

Money may not make you happy but I would rather cry in a Rolls-Royce

 

The true definition of madness - Doing the same thing everyday and expecting different results......


#20 Michael R.

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 17:45

Yep....a 139:

Posted Image

Great price!

Cheers

Michael






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