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oblique nib holders


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36 replies to this topic

#1 PacificCoastPen

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 04:40

How many use oblique nib holders?

For the more experienced and professional calligraphers...do they make that much difference for us noobs?
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#2 smk

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 07:57

Oblique nib holders are a tool created for a reason - writing Copperplate/Engrosser's and/or Spencerian script for right handers. If you are right handed and want to write the above script(s) this tool will be indispensable.

For me it made the difference between being able to learn Copperplate and thinking this script was beyond my abilities when I tried it with regular holders. There are some people who can write Copperplate without the help of an oblique holder but they are the exception rather than the rule.

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#3 Wickwack

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 16:07

The oblique holder helps get the severe slant needed in some hands. It is strange at first but once you understand the reason for using it (the slant) as smk said, it's invaluable.
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#4 texaspenman

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 16:13

These are excellent tools that I didn't use when I first started. After a lot of headache I tired one. This was the turning point in my penmanship. Try PaperInkArts and you will not be disappointed. With one of these penholders, spencerian or copperplate become much easier and quicker to write...
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#5 Achim

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 21:50

Those holders make it easier to write Copperplate, less strain on the wrist. But it's not necessary to buy one of the professional ones - the 3$ plastic one is sufficient.
An alternative is a "Soennecken Federsteller Nr. 525", with one of those you may use any penholder and nib (I recently found one together with a bunch of nibs for about 4$ on ebay).
Here's what it looks like:
Soennecken.png
Best, Achim.

#6 Randal6393

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 03:54

+1 to Salman, life is a lot easier with the oblique holder.

Have written Copperplate both without and with an oblique holder. Much easier with an oblique holder, lot longer life to one's nibs because the tines wear down evenly. And the tip of the nib is positioned to glide over the paper instead of catch on the paper's surface.

Best of luck to you,

Oblique nib holders are a tool created for a reason - writing Copperplate/Engrosser's and/or Spencerian script for right handers. If you are right handed and want to write the above script(s) this tool will be indispensable.

For me it made the difference between being able to learn Copperplate and thinking this script was beyond my abilities when I tried it with regular holders. There are some people who can write Copperplate without the help of an oblique holder but they are the exception rather than the rule.

S.


Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#7 Randal6393

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 04:00

Would have to see a picture of the Nr. 525 in action. Not sure how to attach a nib to it.

While the $3 plastic one will work, I find that the pen is raised too high and digs into the paper. A better-quality nib is a lot easier to use. My favorite is the Blackwell oblique. I like it because it will allow me to use pretty much any nib from a crow quill to the Brause Blue Pumpkin giant nib. Most of the inexpensive plastic ones are limited to the Gillott 303, Brause Rose, Leonardt Principal EF, and a few others. There is little or no adaptibility, except by holding one's hand in a position that is not natural.

Best of luck to you,

Those holders make it easier to write Copperplate, less strain on the wrist. But it's not necessary to buy one of the professional ones - the 3$ plastic one is sufficient.
An alternative is a "Soennecken Federsteller Nr. 525", with one of those you may use any penholder and nib (I recently found one together with a bunch of nibs for about 4$ on ebay).
Here's what it looks like:
Soennecken.png
Best, Achim.


Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#8 Achim

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 12:17

Would have to see a picture of the Nr. 525 in action. Not sure how to attach a nib to it.


There's two layers of metal in the angled part, so you can slip the nib between them (similar to most of the oblique penholders). I didn't try it yet, so I'm not sure if it's as good as a dedicated penholder in the long run. It should be adjustable with tweezers to a certain extent.

Best, Achim.

#9 Randal6393

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 16:54


Would have to see a picture of the Nr. 525 in action. Not sure how to attach a nib to it.


There's two layers of metal in the angled part, so you can slip the nib between them (similar to most of the oblique penholders). I didn't try it yet, so I'm not sure if it's as good as a dedicated penholder in the long run. It should be adjustable with tweezers to a certain extent.

Best, Achim.


That's good to know -- hope it works out well for you.

Thanks, Randal

PS: Gonna post a review?

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#10 Achim

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Posted 18 March 2011 - 18:11

PS: Gonna post a review?


If I ever get to use it - I use my Century Oblique Penholder mostly. And it's not produced any more AFAIK, so even if it's the best thing since sliced bread people will have difficulty to get hold of one, especially now that the world knows about it :ltcapd: .

#11 USMCMom

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Posted 19 March 2011 - 23:24

These are excellent tools that I didn't use when I first started. After a lot of headache I tired one. This was the turning point in my penmanship. Try PaperInkArts and you will not be disappointed. With one of these penholders, spencerian or copperplate become much easier and quicker to write...


I was not able to find it on their website. Perhaps they aren't available or I totally missed it somehow.
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#12 Randal6393

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 02:22


These are excellent tools that I didn't use when I first started. After a lot of headache I tired one. This was the turning point in my penmanship. Try PaperInkArts and you will not be disappointed. With one of these penholders, spencerian or copperplate become much easier and quicker to write...


I was not able to find it on their website. Perhaps they aren't available or I totally missed it somehow.


Try John Neal Books, oblique holders.
My favorite is the Blackwell oblique, just general versatility.

Best of luck,

Edited by Randal6393, 20 March 2011 - 02:23.

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#13 USMCMom

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 03:07

Thank you for the website, Randal ... you know, of course, that you just gave me a huge toy box filled with everything I want to play with, right? LOL Great website and I can see now, I'm going to be there ordering a lot of wonderful goodies!!! My poor wallet ...... LOL
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#14 Ghost Plane

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 15:06

Oh dear. Like I didn't have enough temptation before me :headsmack:

#15 Randal6393

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 00:35

Thank you for the website, Randal ... you know, of course, that you just gave me a huge toy box filled with everything I want to play with, right? LOL Great website and I can see now, I'm going to be there ordering a lot of wonderful goodies!!! My poor wallet ...... LOL


Hi again, Nola

Yeah, JNB has made a small bit of profit off me as well. But, I love the supplies they carry -- have been buying dip pens (broad-edge) from them for years. Now, working on copperplate, they are making a mint off that -- oblique holder, pointed nibs, and McCaffrey inks, mostly. Still, I have invested less than $100 in learning copperplate. That's not shabby. Fortunately, IAMPETH has excellent video and print lessons for my favorite price -- FREE.

By the way, if you are going to use dip pens, I advise using a small brush to fill the nib with ink -- much more controllable than dipping. I prefer a No. 2 watercolor or a 1/4 inch bristle. An eyedropper also works well but, to me, a brush works even better.

Best of luck to you,

Edited by Randal6393, 21 March 2011 - 00:36.

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#16 USMCMom

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 00:39


Thank you for the website, Randal ... you know, of course, that you just gave me a huge toy box filled with everything I want to play with, right? LOL Great website and I can see now, I'm going to be there ordering a lot of wonderful goodies!!! My poor wallet ...... LOL


Hi again, Nola

Yeah, JNB has made a small bit of profit off me as well. But, I love the supplies they carry -- have been buying dip pens (broad-edge) from them for years. Now, working on copperplate, they are making a mint off that -- oblique holder, pointed nibs, and McCaffrey inks, mostly. Still, I have invested less than $100 in learning copperplate. That's not shabby. Fortunately, IAMPETH has excellent video and print lessons for my favorite price -- FREE.

By the way, if you are going to use dip pens, I advise using a small brush to fill the nib with ink -- much more controllable than dipping. I prefer a No. 2 watercolor or a 1/4 inch bristle. An eyedropper also works well but, to me, a brush works even better.

Best of luck to you,


A watercolor brush ... I never thought of that, thank you!!

I've been visiting their site (yesterday and today), trying to figure out what holder I need. I'm right handed, so I know about that, but there are so many to choose from! As for nibs, I was looking at the Gillot 303 and 404, the Hunt 101, Principal EF, Hiro 40 and the Brause 66EF. Think those are ok to begin with??
Posted Image

#17 Randal6393

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 19:45



Thank you for the website, Randal ... you know, of course, that you just gave me a huge toy box filled with everything I want to play with, right? LOL Great website and I can see now, I'm going to be there ordering a lot of wonderful goodies!!! My poor wallet ...... LOL


Hi again, Nola

Yeah, JNB has made a small bit of profit off me as well. But, I love the supplies they carry -- have been buying dip pens (broad-edge) from them for years. Now, working on copperplate, they are making a mint off that -- oblique holder, pointed nibs, and McCaffrey inks, mostly. Still, I have invested less than $100 in learning copperplate. That's not shabby. Fortunately, IAMPETH has excellent video and print lessons for my favorite price -- FREE.

By the way, if you are going to use dip pens, I advise using a small brush to fill the nib with ink -- much more controllable than dipping. I prefer a No. 2 watercolor or a 1/4 inch bristle. An eyedropper also works well but, to me, a brush works even better.

Best of luck to you,


A watercolor brush ... I never thought of that, thank you!!

I've been visiting their site (yesterday and today), trying to figure out what holder I need. I'm right handed, so I know about that, but there are so many to choose from! As for nibs, I was looking at the Gillot 303 and 404, the Hunt 101, Principal EF, Hiro 40 and the Brause 66EF. Think those are ok to begin with??


Nola, that sounds like a good selection. All of the nibs are fairly flexible, some moreso than others. I would say the 303, 101, EF, and 66EF in one group, the 404 and 40 in another. I like the flexible ones for most copperplate -- but, the 404 and 40, being a bit less flexible, have excellent shape to their letters. One FPN'er recommended at least three of each -- I think he is right about that. You should get a good idea about which of the nibs suit your style best once you try all those. Have fun,

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#18 USMCMom

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 19:48




Thank you for the website, Randal ... you know, of course, that you just gave me a huge toy box filled with everything I want to play with, right? LOL Great website and I can see now, I'm going to be there ordering a lot of wonderful goodies!!! My poor wallet ...... LOL


Hi again, Nola

Yeah, JNB has made a small bit of profit off me as well. But, I love the supplies they carry -- have been buying dip pens (broad-edge) from them for years. Now, working on copperplate, they are making a mint off that -- oblique holder, pointed nibs, and McCaffrey inks, mostly. Still, I have invested less than $100 in learning copperplate. That's not shabby. Fortunately, IAMPETH has excellent video and print lessons for my favorite price -- FREE.

By the way, if you are going to use dip pens, I advise using a small brush to fill the nib with ink -- much more controllable than dipping. I prefer a No. 2 watercolor or a 1/4 inch bristle. An eyedropper also works well but, to me, a brush works even better.

Best of luck to you,


A watercolor brush ... I never thought of that, thank you!!

I've been visiting their site (yesterday and today), trying to figure out what holder I need. I'm right handed, so I know about that, but there are so many to choose from! As for nibs, I was looking at the Gillot 303 and 404, the Hunt 101, Principal EF, Hiro 40 and the Brause 66EF. Think those are ok to begin with??


Nola, that sounds like a good selection. All of the nibs are fairly flexible, some moreso than others. I would say the 303, 101, EF, and 66EF in one group, the 404 and 40 in another. I like the flexible ones for most copperplate -- but, the 404 and 40, being a bit less flexible, have excellent shape to their letters. One FPN'er recommended at least three of each -- I think he is right about that. You should get a good idea about which of the nibs suit your style best once you try all those. Have fun,


Thank you!!! This is going to be fun. Most likely frustrating for a little while, but still fun.
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#19 USMCMom

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 13:00

There are several oblique holders available ... Century, Blackwell ... others ... most of what I'm reading, indicate that certain holders are for certain nibs and that there are particular nibs will not fit into certain holders. So, you have more than one holder?
Posted Image

#20 Ken Fraser

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 13:53

There are several oblique holders available ... Century, Blackwell ... others ... most of what I'm reading, indicate that certain holders are for certain nibs and that there are particular nibs will not fit into certain holders. So, you have more than one holder?

I have several holders, all of which I like for various reasons, but the most versatile is undoubtedly
the Hourglass Adjustable Oblique Holder (Rosewood) from Paper and Ink Arts as it takes every nib right
down to crowquill size. The nibs are held securely with a screw.

Ken

Posted Image

Edited by caliken, 23 March 2011 - 14:11.

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#21 USMCMom

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 13:54


There are several oblique holders available ... Century, Blackwell ... others ... most of what I'm reading, indicate that certain holders are for certain nibs and that there are particular nibs will not fit into certain holders. So, you have more than one holder?

I have several holders, all of which I like for various reasons, but the most versatile is undoubtedly
the Hourglass Adjustable Oblique Holder (Rosewood) from Paper and Ink Arts as it takes every nib right
down to crowquill size. The nibs are held securely with a screw.

Ken

Posted Image


Thank you, Ken. I'll go take a look at that holder. Sounds exactly what I would want.
Posted Image

#22 Ken Fraser

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 14:10

Thank you, Ken. I'll go take a look at that holder. Sounds exactly what I would want.

I know that it's a dreadful photo but it does show the three-layer flange system for accepting any size of nib.

Ken

Edited by caliken, 23 March 2011 - 14:10.

Available at :   www.kenfrasercalligrapher.com

 

fpn_1396100240__sig_strip_300p.jpg


#23 Randal6393

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 23:24

My favorite holder is the Blackwell holder. It is similar to the Hourglass Adjustable in that it also has an adjustable screw and can hold a broad selection of nibs.

Enjoy,

Yours,
Randal

From a person's actions, we may infer attitudes, beliefs, --- and values. We do not know these characteristics outright. The human dichotomies of trust and distrust, honor and duplicity, love and hate --- all depend on internal states we cannot directly experience. Isn't this what adds zest to our life?
 


#24 Mustard

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 19:55

I've also been looking into these, I am looking into the Century holder. Should I just spend the few dollars extra and get the Hourglass Adjustable? Also, what nibs should I look at for Copperplate?
Thanks, Mustard

Edited by Mustard, 18 August 2011 - 19:56.

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#25 smk

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 10:01

I've also been looking into these, I am looking into the Century holder. Should I just spend the few dollars extra and get the Hourglass Adjustable? Also, what nibs should I look at for Copperplate?
Thanks, Mustard


IMO the adjustable holder is well worth the money. The Century holder keeps the nib at a preset angle and if thats not the perfect angle for your hand you'll constantly be fighting it. My suggestion is to get both - its good have more than one nib ready for practice at any given time. It also makes comparing nibs easy.

This is good advice from higher up in the thread (the Brause 66EF is a smaller nib than the others and requires a holder that can take it - its an excellent nib).



I've been visiting their site (yesterday and today), trying to figure out what holder I need. I'm right handed, so I know about that, but there are so many to choose from! As for nibs, I was looking at the Gillot 303 and 404, the Hunt 101, Principal EF, Hiro 40 and the Brause 66EF. Think those are ok to begin with??


Nola, that sounds like a good selection. All of the nibs are fairly flexible, some moreso than others. I would say the 303, 101, EF, and 66EF in one group, the 404 and 40 in another. I like the flexible ones for most copperplate -- but, the 404 and 40, being a bit less flexible, have excellent shape to their letters. One FPN'er recommended at least three of each -- I think he is right about that. You should get a good idea about which of the nibs suit your style best once you try all those. Have fun,


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#26 AD356

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 13:14

I've also been looking into these, I am looking into the Century holder. Should I just spend the few dollars extra and get the Hourglass Adjustable? Also, what nibs should I look at for Copperplate?Thanks, Mustard


I have a Century holder. While it will not hold as many nibs as the holder with screws(or at least it will not hold them as easy) it has been great for me. It has made a huge difference in my roundhand. The metal flange will hold most nibs just fine, some of the larger ones I had to pull the flange out and adjust it a bit insert the nib and then reinsert the flange into the pen. This is more cumbersome than the holders with screws(from what I gather) but it does the job.
-Alan

#27 JoanB

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 18:07

Excellent info here!

Still, wow. $40 is a huge chunk for those of us wanting to practice and learn and see if we have what it takes? I'm already up to $40 in a book and nibs I want to try! Gotta respect this guy's efforts on youtube to make one for himself. Look up "Calligraphy art Oblique Pen Holder" if the forum doesn't allow youtube links (I'm not sure, newbie here).

#28 smk

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 18:14

Making holders for yourself is not only fun, it can be addictive. You don't know when to stop!!!

Here are some that I made: Three Wooden Holders.

Salman

Edited by smk, 19 July 2012 - 14:45.

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#29 AD356

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 14:40

Salman those are some very nice pens. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing. Will you be making Oblique pen holders?
-Alan

#30 smk

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 16:04

Salman those are some very nice pens. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing. Will you be making Oblique pen holders?


Thanks Alan. I have made several oblique holders - in fact I started out with one (...this one).

Here are a few that I use regularly (I made No.s 3 to 6):

Posted Image

Here's a copy I made of a 12-inch long Magnusson (sans the ivory and decoration of course) and a shorter one because I liked the style:

Posted Image


I have been uploading pictures to the Pen making and turning forum from time to time. Here are a couple:

The Stingray

The leaf

I like making them and it keeps me out of trouble :-)

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