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Diy Self Service For Ink Leaking 1995 Mb 146 .


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#1 draeroheli

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:04

My 1995 MB 146 suddenly leak at the Filler Cone and stain my white shirt pocket. Fortunately, I was able to remove the ink stain ( about an inch diameter ) by using Astonish Stain Removal Detergent ( Excellent British product.). Thanks to MB Mystery Black ink which is water soluble non permanent ink and the stain had completely gone.

This incidence really upset me and my other half advised me to send the pen to MB boutique shop for servicing in Germany, which may cost me between £40 to £80 and it will take 3 weeks to get my pen back. Since I have about 9 MB pens in my collection, it would be more cost effective if I could service by myself in the long run. I put Temporary Pace Maker Wire to patient's heart at work when their heart beat is not fast enough to maintain their Blood Pressure and Circulation. I thrive on challenges!!. I also enjoy DIY for my hobby such as Radio Control Model Helicopters, which needs high maintenance. Each helicopter costs around £2000 to £4000 and if it is not well maintained, they will crash, like a full size counterparts...( Please do not misinterpret that I am boasting about me, I am a humble servant of God and Most grateful that he gave me live saving skills and I do not do any private practice. Money is not the end of the world and the quality of life is more important to me and my family. )

After reading and studying MB Piston Topic which was posted by Niksch which was pinned at the start of the Forum and Harri's Article on MB146 and 149, I ordered MB Nib and Piston Filler Removal Tools from "Fountainable" from this FTP Network member. Thank you very much Francis to produce such a wonderful precision instruments and without your innovation, we are not going anywhere except to Montblanc Service department.

I have attached some pictures and it was a very enjoying experience to service by myself. Dried ink inside the barrel and less elasticated Piston can cause ink leak backward toward the Filler cone.

The Tools come with an instruction from Fountainable. I am also very grateful to Niksch and Hari for their posts on this Forum. Pen is not leaking anymore and write really well and ink flow is fantastic. I do not need to remove the Nib and Feeder on this occasion as the problem is at the back end. Not at the front!

While the piston was out, I have cleaned the Nib and Barrel with Ultrasonic Cleaner and therefore I did not need to remove the Nib/Feeder section on this occasion. I also use DE-ionized water to clean the pen rather than tap water because of Calcium Contents and small particles from the water pipes. I also soaked the Brass component in Ammonia solution to experiment whether ammonia can dissolve any dried ink residue and the answer was Ammonia could not remove any dried ink and this experiment made me believe that what MB said was right and not to use any soap and chemical detergent for their pens. They could dry out the Elastomer piston ring which is self lubricating material.

This statement may upset some forum members who advocate soap and chemical to clean their pens, nevertheless, nothing stop you from using these agent if your experience is excellent and every experiment has some draw back perhaps I did not soak long enough to remove the inked stain on the brass component!

If I upset anyone, please accept my apology. But healthy debate is good for the interest of maintain good MB pens, the pens we admire so much. In my profession, everything what we do is evidence based and it is open to scrutiny.

So , the choice is yours!!!:thumbup: Best wishes. Htin

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Edited by draeroheli, 23 January 2011 - 12:40.

Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#2 hari317

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:11

Hi Htin,

Congratulations on successfully servicing your 146 DIY at home. I know it is very satisfying. Nice to see Francis's improved tools, the handle looks cool. BTW did you finally cleanout the brass connector? the greenish stuff on the connector, was it dried ink or some precipitate/tarnish of brass caused by interaction with ink?

Thanks!
Hari

#3 draeroheli

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 08:26

Good morning my friend.

I cleaned with warm water several times to get rid of the ammonia. I did not clean the brass completely because it is of cosmetic effect only and it will not effect the quality of writing. I will need 1000 Fine sand paper to remove them completely and polish with Braso metal polish to restore the original glory. But I am not bothered about the brass color. It tells the age of the pen. She was born in March 1995 to commemorate the 25th Anniversary of Warner's Bros Company for International Artists.
I am very grateful for your excellent article and without that article, I will not be able to do it. I salute you my friend :notworthy1:

Wishing you the very best.

Htin

Edited by draeroheli, 23 January 2011 - 08:28.

Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#4 Wael El-Dasher

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 09:08

Very nice! The more I read these DIY reviews, the more I am encouraged to try it. I bought all the tools I could get my hands on from penboard and bought the piston seals, but haven't tried it yet. Two issues worry me. Firstly the heating of the barrel to soften the sealant, and secondly using the right type of sealant during assembly.

I take it from your experiece, neither were required.

cheers

Wael

#5 draeroheli

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 09:31

Very nice! The more I read these DIY reviews, the more I am encouraged to try it. I bought all the tools I could get my hands on from pen board and bought the piston seals, but haven't tried it yet. Two issues worry me. Firstly the heating of the barrel to soften the sealant, and secondly using the right type of sealant during assembly.

I take it from your experience, neither were required.

cheers

Wael


Hi Wael.

Barrel is made of a Glass reinforced Resin and you do not need to heat up to expand the Barrel. In fact, heating up will harm more than doing any good. Use Fountainbel precision tool and do it very gently otherwise you could break the Glass barrel. There is a sufficient silicone seal left at the Filler cone and you do not need to put any more. MB uses a small amount so that Brass cone will not come loose accidentally. No need to tight very hard because this will crack the Glass barrel. Ink is hold by the Elastomer piston which is self lubricating material, it will go so smooth inside the Glass Barrel. MB uses some form of machinery oil which smell like a bicycle tire pump piston. The connecting rod has 4 edges which slide up and down the brass to prevent it from spontaneous rotating.

I used an extremely small amount of Vaseline Liquid paraffin which I use for my patient's dry skin and Eczema to rehydrate the skin. Just a tiny amount on your finger to rub just the edge where the piston ring meets the barrel wall. If there is a dry ink residue between the piston edge and the barrel wall, ink will leak toward the filler cone if you keep the pen upright in your pocket.

Too much oil will make your pen slippery when you write and this will give you a heart ache!!
Hope this information helps.

Best wishes,

Htin

Edited by draeroheli, 23 January 2011 - 12:45.

Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#6 Pen Nut

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:44

Good morning,

How coincidental as I carried out the exact DIY fix this Saturday on my 146 vermeil that had a very stiff piston, to the degree where I knew something was going to give, I had researched the excellent articles given by other members on here (Hari & Co I salute you) and felt confident, if not a bit nervous, that it was within my capabilities.

Nib unit re seal wise I had already done this with the tool, and beeswax for sealing, supplied by FPN member fountainble (?) which had worked well so whats the worse that could happen !

A few points I did pick up on, there is a lot of differing opinions on lubricating the piston. I went for a touch of Vaseline on the advice of an ex MB worker who made reference to silicon grease 'possibly' being the cause of some pens suffering cracks from the use of this. Mistake one. I think I applied too much and there may be traces in the ink as it 'feels' different and skips a bit which it never did before. :embarrassed_smile:

Mistake two. I did not loctite the filler cone back into the barrel and now the whole unit tries to unscrew when operating the filler knob. (ever wish you hadnt tried something!!) I think/hope this will be cured when the threads are sealed.

And finally..... I couldnt get my head around setting the stroke of the piston in relation to how far the knob is turned as to where the seal is. Did that make sense? Its just that the filler knob seems to protrude less now than it use to do when the seal is at its lowest in the ink window.

Think next weekend will see me doing this all again using good old hindsight as my guide. Could be worse I could be putting a wire in your heart to increase your blood flow !!!!!! :headsmack: :headsmack:

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#7 draeroheli

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 14:54

Hello and Good Afternoon.

I am glad that I am not the only one who is interested in DIY for MB pens.

I also like your sense of humour. (The very British way of life!! )
I hope I don't need a wire in my heart to keep me alive. When I need one, I will give you a shout!! How is that?

Let's back to the serious bit and discussion.

(1) Francis sent me some Bee Wax because I requested. Purpose of Bee wax for the nib housing is to prevent ink leaking and I believe that heated bee wax will serve the purpose. Francis has some personnel experience and he would not recommend if it is not good. Francis is a well experience MB veteran. Bee wax is organic and it should not harm the precious Glass reinforce resin. It will help you to remove the nib housing easily when you need to do it again.

(2) From the photos of Hari's article, I am sure it was a dried Silicone Gasket material which is expandable and compressible material. We use the silicone based gasket in our model helicopter engine exhaust to seal gas and it is not a glue and easily undo the screw with out resistant.

(3) MB barrel is made of glass reinforced resin and you have to treat as a China glass- ware. If you put too much locktite, the pressure inside the threat will increased and the volume will expand and the material has no where to go, creating a constant pressure on the barrel and the glass will crack due to persistent built in pressure. If you put locktite, when you remove the thread next time there is a real risk of cracking the glass.

(4) What ever agent you decide to use, apply only a tiny amount. We use Locktite in our helicopters to prevent nuts and bolt coming loose during the flights due to vibration, MB pen has no need to use locktight to prevent barrel becoming loose provided that the piston is not very tight or very stiff due to lack of lubrication in the piston.

(5) Always be gentle and kind to your pen when you service them. No need to use force at all. If you use all the right agent and right amount and correct tension, the pen will not come loose or leak and they will last forever. German engineering is second to none, built to last forever. Worth spending every penny on MB pens, that is why they are expensive.

(6) The third question is a very interesting question and the best one to answer. How to put the piston back and adjust the correct length? Hari has already warned us in his article but he did not give us the answer. It took me an hour to solve this problem. Head scratching and praying to Lord to show me the correct way to reassemble the unit.

(6) Here is the answer. There is no other way you can put it back without removing the actual Silicone based Elastoceal piston from the connecting carbon rod. Take the piston out. Put the whole unit back and adjust the length. finally, put the piston seal back to the connecting rod. This is the way the factory worker boys and girls from MB will assemble the unit. (Praise to Lord)

Silicone based grease is different from actual silicone gasket. Silicone based grease may harm the glass barrel but well cured silicone gasket is harmless. It will never ever harm the glass. glass is very strong. The large amount of silicone gasket agent in the threads will break the glass in due course. I have no doubt about that.

These are My Choice of agents for my pen.

(1) Either bee wax or actual silicone base gasket just a tiny amount on your finger and rub around the Threads on the Nib/Feeder Housing will be my choice for the Front Nib end.

(2) Petroleum based a tiny amount of Vaseline on your finger and rub around only the rim/lid of the Elastomer piston lip will prevent you from leaking ink, at the same time it will repel any ink and well hydrated to the rest of the back of the piston from atmospheric air moisture when you fill the ink. It will keep the rest of the piston unit moist and healthy rather than become dry and dehydrated and loose the elasticity.

(3) Please do not use any chemical or soap to clean the ink chamber because it will dry up the oily material of the piston and the filler will become stiff and eventually it will leak ink.

Best wishes.

Htin

Edited by draeroheli, 23 January 2011 - 19:41.

Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#8 hari317

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 16:04

I just updated my thread with a procedure to adjust the stroke: link Thanks for reminding me Htin.

Regards,
Hari

Edit: to add the stroke adj procedure in this thread as well.

Notes on adjusting the stroke length of the piston rod:

The modern MB piston filler assy consists of four components:

  • Filler Cone with spindle attached
  • Anti Rotation Connector: either full brass or brass with plastic insert
  • Piston rod with elastomer seal at the end, the elastomer seal can be removed/replaced.
  • Filler trim ring washer, a loose fit in the 149s.


Operation:

  • The piston rod has long length wise projections on its sides and rides in the matching grooves inside the connector, this arrangement prevents a sprial movement of the piston rod, only axial movement is allowed.
  • The filler cone screws on to the connector, while it screws on, the spindle attached to the cone rotates along with it.
  • The piston rod has threads on the inner surface(acts like a long nut), the spindle acts like the bolt.
  • As the filler cone is rotated, the spindle rotates alongwith it, and hence pulls in the piston rod axially, the connector prevents rotation of the piston rod allowing only an up-down movement.
Stroke length adjustment:

  • Separate the filler into the four main components.
  • First screw in the filler cone onto the connector fully to check it goes in and out correctly, now back off around 4mm from the full stop position.
  • Place the filler Trim ring washer.
  • Now insert the piston rod from the bottom of the connector, it will contact the spindle, now screw in the filler cone so that the spindle and the rod engage, the piston will be pulled up into the connector. Gently try to screw the filler down fully. You may or may not be able to screw it in fully, and this is what we have to adjust. The game here is to alter the point at which the spindle and the rod engage so that you are able to screw the filler cone in fully.
  • If you are unable to screw the filler cone in fully, it means that you have to leave lesser gap from the 4mm that i mentioned previously. If you leave too little gap, you will find that the piston seal sticks out too much in the fully retracted position thus compromising the ink storage capability.
  • the optimum is acheived when the filler cone is able to screwd in fully and the piston seal sticks out about 7-10mm from the bottom of the connector.
  • Now backoff the filler cone to leave sufficient gap to just slide in the filler wrench, insert the wrench pengs into the slots in the filler, tighten down the filler cone so that the wrench is snugly held.
  • Holding the wrench+filler assembly, thread in the barrel by feel taking care.
  • Job done! remove the wrench, check filler smoothness and operation.


Edited by hari317, 23 January 2011 - 16:53.


#9 draeroheli

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 16:09

I just updated my thread with a procedure to adjust the stroke: link Thanks for reminding me Htin.

Regards,
Hari


Thank you very much my friend. You are a Guru on MB pen. Pioneer explorer who explores how to service the pen. I admire your work.!

Cheers!

Htin

Edited by draeroheli, 23 January 2011 - 16:10.

Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#10 Pen Nut

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 16:18

Ah the mysteries of messing with your pride & joys eh !

Firstly :



(1) Francis sent me some Bee Wax because I requested. Purpose of Bee wax for the nib housing is to prevent ink leaking and I believe that heated bee wax will serve the purpose. Francis has some personnel experience and he would not recommend if it is not good. Francis is a well experience MB veteran. Bee wax is organic and it should not harm the precious Glass reinforce resin. It will help you to remove the nib housing easily when you need to do it again.


Did this using beeswax supplied by Francis and it worked fine meaning no more ink lines on my fingers when using my favourite pen. Warmimg it at first made application easy.


(2) From the photos of Hari's article, I am sure it was a dried Silicone Gasket material which is expandable and compressible material. We use the silicone based gasket in our model helicopter engine exhaust to seal gas and it is not a glue and easily undo the screw with out resistant.


mmmm now then just beware what form of silicone gasket you choose should you not go the beeswax route. There are literally dozens to choose from and non compatibility with out 'precious resin' is a real concern I am sure you will agree. I wonder just what is the bubble gum sealant they use at the factory. Maybe it is just your everyday RTV silicone.


(3) MB barrel is made of glass reinforced resin and you have to treat as a China glass- ware. If you put too much locktite, the pressure inside the threat will increased and the volume will expand and the material has no where to go, creating a constant pressure on the barrel and the glass will crack due to persistent built in pressure. If you put locktite, when you remove the thread next time there is a real risk of cracking the glass


Noted and thanks for your advice on this.





As a footnote I only chose the Vaseline route for piston lube following the advice of the suppliers of the piston removal tool. They seemed to know their stuff quoting from someone who worked for MB and his findings of pens having been lubed with silicone grease.

Best of luck with your future ventures to all those who 'av a go'

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have an increased sense of self-importance

 

" I spend 95% of my income on pens..........the rest I just waste "  ( Mr. P. Nut )


#11 Pen Nut

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 16:24

I just updated my thread with a procedure to adjust the stroke: link Thanks for reminding me Htin.

Regards,
Hari



Oh how I wish I had read this on Friday evening !!!!! Ok guess I am doing it again after all but..... hey I enjoy it !! :embarrassed_smile:

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have an increased sense of self-importance

 

" I spend 95% of my income on pens..........the rest I just waste "  ( Mr. P. Nut )


#12 draeroheli

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 16:27

Ah the mysteries of messing with your pride & joys eh !

Firstly :



(1) Francis sent me some Bee Wax because I requested. Purpose of Bee wax for the nib housing is to prevent ink leaking and I believe that heated bee wax will serve the purpose. Francis has some personnel experience and he would not recommend if it is not good. Francis is a well experience MB veteran. Bee wax is organic and it should not harm the precious Glass reinforce resin. It will help you to remove the nib housing easily when you need to do it again.


Did this using beeswax supplied by Francis and it worked fine meaning no more ink lines on my fingers when using my favorite pen. Warming it at first made application easy.


(2) From the photos of Hari's article, I am sure it was a dried Silicone Gasket material which is expandable and compressible material. We use the silicone based gasket in our model helicopter engine exhaust to seal gas and it is not a glue and easily undo the screw with out resistant.


mmmm now then just beware what form of silicone gasket you choose should you not go the beeswax route. There are literally dozens to choose from and non compatibility with out 'precious resin' is a real concern I am sure you will agree. I wonder just what is the bubble gum sealant they use at the factory. Maybe it is just your everyday RTV silicone.


(3) MB barrel is made of glass reinforced resin and you have to treat as a China glass- ware. If you put too much locktite, the pressure inside the threat will increased and the volume will expand and the material has no where to go, creating a constant pressure on the barrel and the glass will crack due to persistent built in pressure. If you put locktite, when you remove the thread next time there is a real risk of cracking the glass


Noted and thanks for your advice on this.





As a footnote I only chose the Vaseline route for piston lube following the advice of the suppliers of the piston removal tool. They seemed to know their stuff quoting from someone who worked for MB and his findings of pens having been lubed with silicone grease.

Best of luck with your future ventures to all those who 'av a go'



Thank you Pen Nut for your contribution. It is great to share our thoughts and try to choose the best way to proceed for our pens. Perhaps try and error? I believe in the end, it is worth servicing our pens our selves although it may not be suitable for others.

Perhaps, £40 to £80 per service is not too bad and peace and reassurance and I would not recommend others to DIY at home because of the serious risk of damaging the pens.

God bless you all!

Htin
Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#13 Pen Nut

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 16:48

Very satisfying doing it yourself, when you get it right, and it also means you can help like minded members as well.

On that subject I have been active with the Rolls-Royce club for 30 years plus at various levels and we ran a tool hire scheme for members that worked well for those who had a grasp of all things mechanical. For a nominal fee, plus deposit, tools that were normally only available to franchised agents were there for everyone. There was a safety implication that applied to car tools that had to be gone over first but on the whole it ran well.

Could it work here ?? I would gladly let members use what I have ( ok its only a couple of tools at the moment ) for the cost of a few ink cartridges and this would allow people to try their hand at servicing their pens and it would be cost effective for those that only have the one pen in that range that they wish to do.

Just a thought.

Regards to all.

Ian.

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have an increased sense of self-importance

 

" I spend 95% of my income on pens..........the rest I just waste "  ( Mr. P. Nut )


#14 draeroheli

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 17:36

Very satisfying doing it yourself, when you get it right, and it also means you can help like minded members as well.

On that subject I have been active with the Rolls-Royce club for 30 years plus at various levels and we ran a tool hire scheme for members that worked well for those who had a grasp of all things mechanical. For a nominal fee, plus deposit, tools that were normally only available to franchised agents were there for everyone. There was a safety implication that applied to car tools that had to be gone over first but on the whole it ran well.

Could it work here ?? I would gladly let members use what I have ( OK its only a couple of tools at the moment ) for the cost of a few ink cartridges and this would allow people to try their hand at servicing their pens and it would be cost effective for those that only have the one pen in that range that they wish to do.

Just a thought.

Regards to all.

Ian.


Woo, what a small world.!! I am a member of the Rolls-Royce Hucknal Branch for Social and aeronautical Club to fly our models in their air field.

I did not realize that you have a RR club in Manchester area. That is Fantastic.

I think it is a very good idea to hire or share all the necessary tools so that we do not need to buy every tools we need. We can also share our experiences and problems if we encounter during our venture. I show interested in MB pen as my another hobby.

But the Forum Moderators and Leaders may not approve the idea of DIY spreading around the community. People might damage their pens and also Montblanc may not like it at all the idea of servicing ourselves.

I will follow your leadership if you think that is the good thing to start up the DIY Club, I do not think Forum Leaderswill approve the idea. I donated a small amount of money to this Forum because I enjoy so much developing Fellowship with others and I do not want to loose out. After all, Montblanc may donate some money to run this forum alive? Who knows.

May be, I am paranoid :doh:

I leave it in your good judgment and I will follow your leadership. How is that? Fair comment or not?

Wish you the very best my friend.

Htin

Edited by draeroheli, 23 January 2011 - 19:31.

Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#15 niksch

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 18:23

Barrel is made of a Glass reinforced Resin and you do not need to heat up to expand the Barrel. In fact, heating up will harm more than doing any good. Use Fountainbel precision tool and do it very gently otherwise you could break the Glass barrel.


Generally, yes, one does not need to heat the pen to remove the piston mechanism on modern resin pens. But if the ink leak was so severe that ink worked its was between the barrel and piston threads, creating some corrosion on the brass threads, thereby requiring more force to remove the piston, a little heat would help with that removal. While it's true that too much heat will melt the barrel, the resin is strong enough to with some heat. Defining "some" can be found through experience. I go by "feel" instead of an exact temperature.

While I don't agree that the resin needs to be treated/handled like China-ware, I do agree that it can be broken if the repairer uses too much force when replacing the piston. I also agree that one should not use Loktite to seal the piston mechanism in the barrel. As you stated, the elastomer seal forms the seal that allow for ink to enter the barrel.

I have found that using heat to remove the nib unit will soften the sealant allowing for easier removal and will prevent damaging the feeder case.

The use of heat is required on celluloid models. Shellac is used to seal the section threads to the barrel threads, and I find on 14x pens of the 50s that shellac was used to seal the piston mechanism to the barrel as well. Use of moderate heat is necessary to loosen the shellac so disassembly can occur. I have broken the barrel of a 144 when I attempted to remove the piston mechanism from the barrel because I did nt apply heat. Celluloid will melt too, so the application of heat should be undertaken with care.
Hard times don't last, but hard people do.

Thank a Veteran.



#16 draeroheli

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 19:26

Hello Niksch,

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Your contribution is greatly appreciated. I admire your topic of MB pistons at the start of the forum.

Once again, thank you very much.

Best wishes,

Htin
Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#17 rockspyder

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 21:30

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1: Thank you doc Aeroheli, Niksch, Hari and others, I just did the same on an older 149 that leaked at the back!! I have not used it for a long time, because of this leak, and the piston was very stiff, I was afraid it might break off from twisting. I probably had to get it to a service center, which would send it to Germany, which means waiting months and months and $$$. But, after reading this, I decided to give it a go. I did not have the tool, so I made my own one - it took just a few minutes to machine a number 8 open spanner into a perfect tool for this, with perfect prong spacing. (will post a pic later) The whole job of opening up, cleaning the assembly, lubing with vaseline, adjusting the stroke length, took no more than 20 minutes!!!
After this, I just went crazy, and serviced some others with stiff pistons as well, quick and easy. An enormous amount of time, trouble, effort and cost saved by this thread, unbelievable! Now I have the confidence to do these things without the usual fear of the unknown. Thanks thanks thanks!!! :thumbup: :notworthy1:

As capt Kirk said - "to boldly go...."

#18 draeroheli

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 21:54

Dear Rockspider,

Many Congratulations! I am so pleased to hear about your success. Instead of waiting for 3 weeks for MB services, you just did it by your self. Fantastic news :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

I was worried about my post for this DIY servicing in case members' pens get damaged and also in case I upset other members of the community because of my over excitement about this DIY servicing topic and I was considering to withdrawl this post from the forum by asking the moderator to look at it because good relationship with community members are most important to me.

Now at least, something good come out of this topic.I am glad that I have posted this topic because some information is useful for some members of the community.

By the way, are you also a doctor "Opthalmoligist" with special expertise in Retina Circulation!

Best wishes,

Htin


Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#19 wtlh

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 16:54

Also my I quickly add that

1: Deionised water is not the same as distilled water. I would recommend using distilled water which can be purchased from any large pharmacy. And since you work in a hospital, this is not difficult to get. Although deionised water removes the common salt ions that are present in most water sources (which for example are the reasons of limescale), it does not remove possible biological contents, bacteria or organic molecules (agents for mould growing for example).

2. I think you should use pure silicon grease for lubricating the piston seal. The use of petroleum based lubricant has a possibility to damage the seal and also damage the resin barrel. The MB barrel is I believe made from a variant of PMMA and it is quite right that MB does not recommend the use of commercial cleaning products for the pen, as many contain petroleum products and they damage the material.

#20 draeroheli

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 18:13

Also my I quickly add that

1: Deionized water is not the same as distilled water. I would recommend using distilled water which can be purchased from any large pharmacy. And since you work in a hospital, this is not difficult to get. Although deionized water removes the common salt ions that are present in most water sources (which for example are the reasons of lime scale), it does not remove possible biological contents, bacteria or organic molecules (agents for mold growing for example).

2. I think you should use pure silicon grease for lubricating the piston seal. The use of petroleum based lubricant has a possibility to damage the seal and also damage the resin barrel. The MB barrel is I believe made from a variant of PM MA and it is quite right that MB does not recommend the use of commercial cleaning products for the pen, as many contain petroleum products and they damage the material.



Hello, Thank you very much for your interest in my article and your advice :vbg:.

I admire your knowledge of Chemistry. Do you use Silicone Grease for your pens? Do you recommend any particular brand of Silicone grease?.

At present, my MB 146 is behaving well and perhaps I was so lucky that I did not damage my pen.

Best wishes.

Htin

Edited by draeroheli, 02 February 2011 - 19:03.

Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#21 Pen Nut

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 18:26

To take a line from a song " and the more I find out the less I know " the silicone grease subject is a large one.

I have been told that 100% pure food grade (?) silicone grease is the most safe to use in the lubrication world.

I have located a seller and will pass on details if required.

Regards

Ian.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have an increased sense of self-importance

 

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#22 draeroheli

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 19:05

To take a line from a song " and the more I find out the less I know " the silicone grease subject is a large one.

I have been told that 100% pure food grade (?) silicone grease is the most safe to use in the lubrication world.

I have located a seller and will pass on details if required.

Regards

Ian.



Thank you Ian. Yes Please. May I have the contact details.

Best wishes,

Htin
Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#23 draeroheli

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 19:41

Also my I quickly add that

The MB barrel is I believe made from a variant of PMMA and it is quite right that MB does not recommend the use of commercial cleaning products for the pen, as many contain petroleum products and they damage the material.


Hello, I think a soapy water and Diluted Ammonia 10% with water is OK to clean the Nib and Feeder. These detergent will remove any residual polish or grease on the nib as every nib is hand made polished and installed by hands.

These detergent will remove any grease at the lip of the piston seal and the piston will become dry if you flush the pen with these detergent. I would prefer just soak the nib and feeder in the soapy warm water for several hours and run the nib/feeder unit under warm water to get rid off the detergent. I would not want my pen to fill up with these detergent, unless the nib and feeder unit is removed from the housing and treat with these detergent separately away from the piston.

If the pen is slippery due to hand held polish in the nib and feeder, then certainly these detergent will remove these residual polish and the writing quality of the pen will tremendously improve.

That is my opinion..
Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#24 Pen Nut

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 19:43


Also my I quickly add that

The MB barrel is I believe made from a variant of PMMA and it is quite right that MB does not recommend the use of commercial cleaning products for the pen, as many contain petroleum products and they damage the material.


Hello, I think a soapy water and Diluted Ammonia 10% with water is OK to clean the Nib and Feeder. These detergent will remove any residual polish or grease on the nib as every nib is hand made polished and installed by hands.

These detergent will remove any grease at the lip of the piston seal and the piston will become dry if you flush the pen with these detergent. I would prefer just soak the nib and feeder in the soapy warm water for several hours and run the nib/feeder unit under warm water to get rid off the detergent. I would not want my pen to fill up with these detergent, unless the nib and feeder unit is removed from the housing and treat with these detergent separately away from the piston.

If the pen is slippery due to hand held polish in the nib and feeder, then certainly these detergent will remove these residual polish and the writing quality of the pen will tremendously improve.

That is my opinion..



PM sent....... Oh and I want you as my Doctor with the amount of research you do into your pen servicing my medication should be correct ! :roflmho:

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have an increased sense of self-importance

 

" I spend 95% of my income on pens..........the rest I just waste "  ( Mr. P. Nut )


#25 draeroheli

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 19:44

<BR>Also my I quickly add that <BR><BR>The MB barrel is I believe made from a variant of PMMA and it is quite right that MB does not recommend the use of commercial cleaning products for the pen, as many contain petroleum products and they damage the material.<BR>

<BR><BR>


Hello, I think a soapy water and Diluted Ammonia 10% with water is OK to clean the Nib and Feeder. These detergent will remove any residual polish or grease on the nib as every nib is hand made polished and installed by hands.<BR> <BR>These detergent will remove any grease at the lip of the piston seal and the piston will become dry if you flush the pen with these detergent. I would prefer just soak the nib and feeder in the soapy warm water for several hours and run the nib/feeder unit under warm water to get rid off the detergent. I would not want my pen to fill up with these detergent, unless the nib and feeder unit is removed from the housing and treat with these detergent separately away from the piston.<BR><BR>If the pen is slippery due to hand held polish in the nib and feeder, then certainly these detergent will remove these residual polish and the writing quality of the pen will tremendously improve.<BR><BR>That is my opinion..<BR>


Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#26 wtlh

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:06

You can get 100% silicon grease from any diving shop, and you can get them quite easily on ebay. Just search 100% pure silicon grease, diving, you should find a seller in UK. I bought mine this way.

The petroleum based lubricants will over time make most other petroleum derived thermal plastics (PMMA is one of them) become brittle and discolour. This process only becomes apparent after exposure of the material to the lubricant in quite long period of time. However even with a little lubricant applied, the lubricant do stay on and diffuse onto other parts for a long time to come, and won't go away easily. So I would recommend you to clean the parts in soapy water or diluted ammonia solution again, and make sure all traces of the petroleum lubricant is washed away (you can use a large cotton swab to gently rub the inside of the barrel, make sure to do it gently and not creating scratches). And afterwards apply a tiny amount of silicon grease to the piston seal and work it up and down a bit in the barrel. Note that you should really be applying a tiny amount, (sesame sized lump perhaps), because although the silicon grease is inert, too much can cause a build-up near the section end as the piston pushes the excess grease downward during each filling. If some grease gets into the feed area and blocks one of the channels (meaning pen starting to malfunction), then it will be a pain to remove. The grease is insoluble to anything that won't also dissolve the pen, and the only way you can get it out would be physical (high risk of damaging the delicate feed channel) or using high pressure water (to force it out). So only apply the minimum required for a smooth operation, nothing more. One application of the grease lasts a very long time.

Yes, soapy water with diluted ammonia is okay for the nib and feed, and the barrel, as long as you rinse it with clean water after the cleaning.

PS: If you decided to polish the tarnished brass, remember that the brass polish must be throughly removed before reassembly. Also note that the "disc" part which will remain visible after the piston retracted may be gold plated, so DON'T polish that part. As you said there is no need to seal the piston housing with grease (though a little may help for ease of future maintenance, prevents the screws to cease up due to possible brass corrosion etc (a light coat of grease also prevents corrosion)). In fact the piston assembly at the back is designed not to be air-tight, otherwise you won't be able to operate the piston.

In practice a well cared for and regularly used MB rarely needs to be serviced this way (taking apart etc). The important word is pen hygiene: never let ink dry up inside (fill regularly, never leave small amounts of ink in the chamber for few days etc, and empty/flush the pen if not going to be used for anything longer than a week), flush clean every a couple of fills (more frequent if using highly saturated inks). And basically this is all it requires for the pen to function flawlessly for many decades without any other extra servicing.

Edited by wtlh, 03 February 2011 - 12:32.


#27 draeroheli

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 21:08

Thank you for your good advice. Francis who supplies the MB tools himself is an experience fountain pen restorer and he uses Vaseline for all his pens and I followed his advice and my pen is working well. No ink leak and no skipping and ink flow is so smooth.

I also agree with you that no ink should be left more than a week and need regular flushing and the pen will last many years without any problem. No need to dismantle the pen. Thank you. Best wishes. Htin

Edited by draeroheli, 04 February 2011 - 13:37.

Patron of Art Marquise de Pompadour 2001 LE 0043/4810.
Donation SE John Lennon Imagine FP (M) Nib Serial No.BW195873
Donation LE Johann Sebastian Bach 2001(M) Nib. serial no. 2892/12000.
Donation SE Yehudi Menuhin No 3772 (EF)Nib
Writers Limited Edition Mark Twain 2010(M)Nib. serial no.3633/12000.
1985 Meisterstuck 149(EF) & Modern149(OB), 147 Traveler (M) Sp.Edition 1970-1995 Warner Bros Music Artist 146 (M). Mozart (F). 144 Stainless Steel Doue (M), Le Boherme Rouge(M)

#28 capecha

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 21:48

Greeting, this is a really useful post. I am new in the network but, can I ask you where and how can I find or buy the tool to open the MB 146? How much is its cost? I have the same pen with the same problem.
Thanks a lot for the info!!
Cheerios!

#29 hari317

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 13:55

I am new in the network but, can I ask you where and how can I find or buy the tool to open the MB 146?


I bought my tool from belgium based FPN member Fountainbel: link You can send him an enquiry PM.

#30 Derrik Waterbottle

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:45

Thanks Hari, I`m loving the fork, that is truly my sort of tool :clap1: